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An optimal operating system. Is it Win 7?

Discussion in 'Windows 7' started by Codecutter, 2009/12/15.

  1. 2009/12/15
    Codecutter

    Codecutter Inactive Thread Starter

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    This thread is based on the problem of Win 7 crashing during a wake up from hibernation reported in an earlier thread. jpChris says to wait for a service pack before using Win 7. Arie says not enough testing was provided for before Win 7 was released.

    But I wonder if Microsoft these days are not just like a herd of Buffalo endlessly circling the great plains looking for food.

    There has to be a stage where an OS reaches a "best" state and from then on, further additions detract from the master.

    Re-emerging bugs are surely symptomatic of such a problem. By this I mean, bugs that never existed occuring in later releases or bugs coming back after we think they are fixed. Surely this was what most characterized Vista and from this thread, now seems to characterize Windows 7.

    OK, so there are some fundamentally great new developments like solid state drives, that is really giant non volatile RAM made to behave like a disk drive, but software changes needed to use this hardware can easily be incorporated into a service pack.

    Perhaps then, the pinnacle of OS development for windows at this stage, is still XP and this is what we should stick with in production environments for some time to come.
     
    Last edited: 2009/12/15
    Codecutter,
    #1
  2. 2009/12/16
    Steve R Jones

    Steve R Jones SuperGeek Staff

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    I'm pretty certain You have Not factored in MILLIONS of Hardware and SOFTWARE makers.

    One little digit of code either not written or written wrong in iTunes for example can give many people the impression that Microsoft messed up again.

    One little spec of dust on your dvd give that causes a rental movie to mess up can give a person the same impression.

    The list of variables is basically endless..And it changes almost daily....
     
    Steve R Jones,
    #2


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  4. 2009/12/16
    Arie

    Arie Administrator Administrator Staff

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    Windows XP is like an 80-year old, running on its last legs.
     
    Arie,
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  5. 2009/12/16
    TonyT

    TonyT SuperGeek Staff

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    The real factor that is determining operating system choice by most IT depts is dollars. In today's economy, businesses don't want to spend the money to upgrade, and who can blame them?

    For personal computers, it's a no brainer. Windows 7 is much better than XP or Vista. So long as one's hardware supports Windows 7 then one should move ahead.

    Is is necessary to move onto Windows 7 to enjoy computing? Absolutely not! But pleasure too, is relative and variable.

    Microsoft is like any other business. It creates a market for a product, makes the product (or vice versa), sells the product and supports the product. They are in business to make money. So am I. Not like a herd of buffalo circling the plains looking for food, but more like the plains itself inviting the buffalo to roam it.
     
    TonyT,
    #4
  6. 2009/12/16
    Codecutter

    Codecutter Inactive Thread Starter

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    We all expect an OS to show some wisdom, and starting and stopping correctly is a good place to start. And where do you get your wisdom - from an eighty year old woman or a 12 month old child.

    There is a lot of different stuff out there but I think the concept of catering to zillions of different programs and just as many hardware items is not a valid argument. That's why we invented compilers and drivers, to get a common binary base with which a computer could share devices, using a common compiled code.

    Is it the buffalo roaming or plains inviting? I guess it's a synergy between the two that make this crazy business function.

    I'm not saying XP is better than Win 7 or Vista, For most people it might be like asking what's your favorite movie. Without knowing the use the OS is put to, that's hard to answer. Win 7 is certainly a juicier system, but it seems to give a bit of indigestion along the way. For some it might be better to stay on the simpler diet, particularly if the journey is a long one.
     
    Codecutter,
    #5
  7. 2009/12/16
    Jilly

    Jilly Inactive

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    Oh, give me a home.. where the bu-ffa-lo roam
    ..where the deeeer and the an-te-lope plaaay....where sel-dom is heard a dis-cour-a-ging word...
    and su-pport for XP-e can STAYYYYY. :p
     
    Last edited: 2009/12/17
    Jilly,
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  8. 2009/12/17
    Steve R Jones

    Steve R Jones SuperGeek Staff

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    Codecutter - so you've maybe written some code? Did you ever make a boo boo? You know, the kind where an end user clicks on something for example and BOOM...The App crashes n burns and Windows almost chokes to Death..

    Do feel this boo boo is Microsofts fault for not anticipating YOUR mistake and fixing it in advance for you even though they've never seen what you've written?
     
    Steve R Jones,
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  9. 2009/12/17
    TonyT

    TonyT SuperGeek Staff

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    That's backwards. It's the other way around. MS makes an opetrating system and releases APIs to software developers and hardware manufacturers. It's up to them to write code that functions (software and drivers).

    There is really no such thing as common compiled code anymore. Again, too many variables, sush as the different computer languages and the different software that's used to create the code and then compile it. Developers have long since stopped writing code in Assembly language (the truly only common code). On top of that, developers must now take into consideration other base hardware when writing code, such as CPU functions, e.g. take advantage of dual and quad core technologies, etc.

    That an operating system can be made and actually work in a majority of cases is a miracle unto itself. Even Linux is faced with these same problems when developing software and kernel drivers.

    That there are issues with Hibernation is nothing new. It's been a problem for all MS operating systems since Hibernation was first implemented. Again, too many variables, such as the bios handling certain ACPI functions. (ACPI = Advanced Configuration and Power Interface, power management specification developed by Intel, Microsoft, and Toshiba) OEMs often bundle their own ACPI utilities, esp on laptops. And MS ACPI utilities are there too. More often than not, User Error is to blame. (User Error = failure to RTFM, understand and select desired workable settings)
     
    Last edited: 2009/12/17
    TonyT,
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  10. 2009/12/17
    Codecutter

    Codecutter Inactive Thread Starter

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    First, lets look at Steve R Jones comment, ever made a boo boo.

    Sure, for instance dividing by zero with an early compiler that didn't trap the result. That could kill a computer quicker than dirty Harry could say, "make my day ".

    Did I ever release software to a client with an untrapped division by zero. I don't think so. But without a bug, now I'd be fibbing, cause you know I have.

    Today, most compilers will trap a division by zero. Hey presto, we're starting to get intelligent software. MS and other compiler manufacturers have anticipated my mistake and corrected for it. We beat Dirty Harry to the draw.

    Now TonyT can you argue "MS makes an operating system and releases APIs to software developers and hardware manufacturers. etc " and keep a straight face.

    But with Win 7, its an MS operating system. It was developed by MS. It's their baby with the bug, not the OS of a third party. It came out of an MS box with an MS logo. You treat it like its not theirs and they'll sue you. On the other side of the equation, I agree hibernation per se, is a bit of a minefield, but I was talking about optimal, that is an OS that performs better at a task than its brothers or sisters. And if the BSOD is missing, then the term optimal is probably a good one. I also disagree with you on what's common code. All libraries are truly common code. By definition we all share them. I think you're not distinguishing between the path and the end result.

    cheers
     
    Codecutter,
    #9
  11. 2009/12/17
    Steve R Jones

    Steve R Jones SuperGeek Staff

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    In other words - it's business as usual:D
     
    Steve R Jones,
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  12. 2009/12/17
    Jilly

    Jilly Inactive

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    Hi,

    Not sure if this belongs in this thread but I think so. Between clients, because of this thread, I have been Googling W7 with open mind... given my adoration of XP.

    I just came upon something that impressed me deeply here:
    http://forums.pcpitstop.com/index.php?showtopic=172647&pid=1622779&mode=threaded&show=&st=&

    The OMG part, well, was for me, is the guy from the UK who responds to the poster, installed W7 on an ancient Optiplex with bad specs, esp the ram.... and it ran! And same old system could not run XP.

    I also noticed, the UK guy has, OMG.....my dream system with the i7 ultimate chip. Sigh. U gotta dream big, right?

    First time I have been indelibly impressed by anything I've read re W7.

    I might also add, reading about the horrific holes in this OS....some maybe not patched fast enough to preclude disaster in some systems.....freaks me out.

    I am sure no MS OS has been without infinite holes & vulnerabilities. I mean that is what Tuesdays are for, right?;) Alas, it appears inherent. So if I do decide to go W7......it will be down the road a bit when the OS is more fully patched.

    But I did find the above very impressive.
     
    Last edited: 2009/12/18
    Jilly,
    #11
  13. 2009/12/18
    gpday

    gpday Inactive

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    As far as I can see,Microsuks software will never be free from problems. Why you ask! Because PC builders use inferior parts to build cheap computers,and until this problem get resolved these freezes,and lock-ups will continue.Microsuks also needs to look to different code as the old XP base has come and gone.
     
    gpday,
    #12
  14. 2009/12/18
    BudTheGrey

    BudTheGrey Well-Known Member

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    Optimal Operating System = VM/CMS. :)
     
    BudTheGrey,
    #13

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