New Hardware, Old Software

It's time to buy a new computer. I'm looking at an Intel Core 2 Duo E8600 processor mounted in an Intel ASUS P5Q-E, but I've just been informed it won't run W98SE! Worse yet, I'm told that there are no new motherboards that have drivers for W98SE.

I like 98SE because of it's clean look and feel, because it runs fast, and because you don't have to worry about which user you are. I've tried ME, but didn't like it. I won't even look at XP or V. Although I have heard some good things about 7. (I might get 7 and tri-boot with it, just to run things that won't run under 98. But 7 without 98 is not an option.)

Please don't tell me I need such a fast system. I need a computer that keeps up with me, and my current 1GHz whitebox barely does that. It takes longer to boot up than my old CP/M system.

I suppose I could get a separate cound card that has 98 drivers available, and my current monitor comes with drivers, but what about motherboard (chipset?) and network (ethernet) drivers? At this point I'd be willing to PAY someone to WRITE drivers for me, if it weren't too expensive or I could share the cost with someone. (I'm a fairly good programmer myself but don't have experience with drivers. I would need a lot of coaching.)

An older motherboard might be an option but only if it wouldn't slow the processor down.

Also, what would be the impact of NOT having drivers? Would the system be degraded, or not run at all? Like I said, I could get a separate sound card but exactly what else wouldn't work?

I thank you for your help in advance.

Sincerely,

Henipatra

 

My current computer has problems---the sound card isn't working, and it doesn't have enough USB ports. (Yes, I KNOW I can get an expander.) I also want to be able to run some newer software but only if I can keep running the older software under W98SE. Abandoning W98SE is not an option, although a nice drink of WINE may be. XP is definitely not an option.

I'm going to call Intel ASUS Technical Support; maybe they can help me.

If I can get them to create custom drivers, would anybody else be interested in a copy?

Regards,

Henipatra

 

Dear Arie,

How much is Microsoft paying you to say this?

Henipatra

 

It's not safe allowing a Win 98 machine access to the internet. It can get all sorts of "nasties ". If I run 98, I don't let it connect.

You could look for a machine with a CPU of 2.0 to 2.5Ghz. People will be upgrading from those and you should get it for a good price. Check at the motherboard/system manufacturer's website for Win 98 drivers. Computers of that era were built to run Win XP well, so they should run Win 98 and it's software with ease.

Get a new or recent model (and a secure OS) if you want to connect to the internet.

Matt

 

Could someone tell why it is so dangerous to use Win98 machine to acces internet? I have an old PC, bought -94 or -95 and its current set up after hardware and software updates, ten years ago is Win98SE, IE 5.0 and OE 5.0. I use it occasionally for text editing, sending e-mail, faxes and surfing internet (it has a 28 kbs modem, Information Superhighway, here I come) btw, also these sites can be viewed with those applications/hardware, quite slowly offcourse. Internet sites which have relatively simply content, can be viewed with quite acceptable speed.
I have set the security settings to very restrictive level, except for the sites which I trust. I have Spybot SD and it hasn’t found anything suspicious on my computer, I wonder if I actually need it, but its really nice that folks at Spybot have still kept it compatible with old OS´s and browsers.

I too like Win98SE because of its clean and simple look and its also easy to keep it running well. I´d say it is also fast, it boots up, like instantly if compared to my 5 years old WinXP laptop. I also don’t understand why it is said that Win9x´s are more unstable than WinXp. I have only got BSOD´s on my Win98SE computer when I tried to install some really old Win 3.x applications on it.
My WinXP laptop instead, gives occasionally weird error notifications, may hang up so completely, that I have to shut it down by pressing the power button, etc. I have Norton Antivirus on it, I have set the IE´s security settings to very restrictive level, cleaned Temp folder, defragged, used checkdisk, used Windows update (well, don’t have SP3 yet).
At my work, I have seen WinXP machines (they had AV software, all updates, including SP3 and so on) that were so ******* up, that it took almost 10 minutes after startup, before user could start any applications, without causing the computer to hang. Those machines were finally fixed/cleaned by a professional, which was not cheap. And this is supposed to be "more stable OS" than Win98SE?

Naturally, that old PC is "just" a hobby and I use that newer laptop with Win xp, ADSL and all the bells and whistles for "serious" everyday computing.
So, to my question, is using Win98SE and old applications like those, for occasional surfing on trusted sites really a "disaster waiting to happen" and a terrible security risk? I´m a bit skeptic about that. And Henipatra, good luck with that Win98, keep it running as long as you can, like I will.

 

Dear Arie,

I'm sorry I popped off at you.

But I will get what I want!

Regards,

Henipatra

 

@Henipatra

Arie offered his (in my opinion, very good) advice, of course it is your decision to use it or get what you want.

@ThomasJK

A dial up connection (probably) with non static IP's is less likely to be prone to attacks, in addition a prudent user (such as yourself) can fend off those that get through the (very) basic security Win98 & IE5 offer.

In your workplace it's a different story, multiple users and (I'm guessing) broadband (perhaps with) fixed IP's. Although XP is a lot easier to secure, in my opinion you're comparing apples with oranges.

98 is not secure but the user can be.

 

Could someone tell why it is so dangerous to use Win98 machine to acces internet?

The last two critical updates to the Win98 OS involved patches (KB891711 and KB918547), not updated files. These patches altered the core of the operating system when installed and run at startup. Microsoft has then found other vulnerabilties at the core of the operating system.
MS has stated the only effective way to plug these up would be to dig up the source code files, make the changes, and then recompile the entire operating system and then issue new CD's. Microsoft is not going to do that, no money in it.

 

Security

Hello,

Thank you, for the answers about Win98SE´s security issues, wildfire and markp62. Surely, WinXp is a lot easier to secure. I actually mentioned my (fairly limited) experiences with WinXp, just to say that I´ve seen a lot more overall slowness and annoying quirks with Xp machines.
It is comforting to hear that a dial-up connection might be more safe, than a broadband with Win98SE. About the updates, so Win98SE has serious vulnerabilities. I noticed, that I dont have those critical updates (oops). Only updates on this computer are Q245729, Q238453 and something about Windows shut-down. BTW, can those updates still be downloaded from MS update site? I guess I´m propably missing a lot of updates, could it be done so, that I download them with my broadband connection computer, burn them on CD, and then install them on this Win98 machine?

 

I believe you can still get them. I have already done what you are planning to do.

 

You can certainly still get those updates. If you connect to the internet through a router with a decent built-in firewall, it would (I believe) be more secure. And whilst 98 is less secure than XP, XP is by the same margin less secure than Vista, I believe. Except that XP still has support.

As to brand-new hardware that still supports 98:

Graphics cards: I've found a NVidia GeForce 6200 on Amazon for £30. This is sold by Amazon themselves, not a third-party through Amazon. Haven't looked at ATI-based cards, and I have no idea about ATI drivers. The NVidia ones aren't the latest, if I'm honest, they aren't even close, but they are still available from NVidia.
Sound cards: Found a well-reviewed card, from Amazon, for £10. Says it will work with 98SE.
Motherboards: Amazon were completely useless: their categories don't even vaguely work. Dabs don't even pretend to stock boards that are pre-Pentium 4. There is some at Pricewatch.com: I've found a couple of Socket A boards that look like they should be compatible with 98, at $18, and Socket 370 boards for $15. However, more specific info on your CPU would help.
Network:
A Belkin G router still appears be fully compatible with 98 and they cost about $40.

Please, don't spread myths about Windows 98 and being unable to buy stuff for it, even from reputed sellers - there's still plenty around, if you know where to look.

 

I replied to this, but it doesn't seem like the reply "took ", so here I go again . . . .

Thank you Lukeno. I'll check out Amazon. (Could you tell me what sound card that was? I insist upon a top quality sound card. A graphics card is good enough as long as it works.)

I haven't bought a CPU yet but I'm looking at an Intel Core 2 Duo E8600 mounted on an Asus P5Q-E. (Less than up-to-date hardware not previous owned is not what I meant by "New Hardware, Old Software ".)

Also, I thought of a possible solution, short of writing my own drivers: boot Mepis Linux then run W98SE under it as a virtual machine. That way, it would be Linux talking to the hardware, not windows. Do you think that would work?

Regards,

Henipatra

 

You won't get that setup working with 98, unless you write the drivers yourself. Also, Dual-core would be a waste of time with 98. Furthermore, no virtual machine emulates your exact graphics card and sound card, to my knowledge (though I may be wrong). A Pentium 4 board should theoretically still run with 98, whilst giving reasonably up-to-date performance. And make sure you have 512 MB of RAM or less, otherwise it won't work (this one isn't a myth, I can tell you from experience that it doesn't work )

 

hi ..

Been following this thread, happen to be one who really enjoys 98se....thought I'd offer some suggestions, without getting in the fray of NT vs 9x. (Arie is probably right, for stability, XP pro would probably would win hands down)

That being said, here is a google link that can show some glowing examples of what you seek and horror stories....

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=modern+motherboards+using+win98&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

As far as security, I am posting this message with a 98 se machine running Firefox 3.5 in XP compatiblity mode, because of the hard work of 2 developers over at source forge which just released v 4.0 of the Kernelex project....really cool stuff!

Connected thru a dsl line running behind a netgear router w/dbl firewall ....(2 1/2 years without a single virus)

For good looks, search for "Revolutions Pack v9.0 (or greater)" .....Mine is currently skinned with the xp zune theme.

For backup and mirroring, just grab Western digitals hard drive utility ....I make a bootable mirror of my drive C in about 10 minutes....

Cheers
Jake

 

No idea why they needed to modify Firefox 3.5 if they want a secure browser: the latest versions of Opera still run on it