Resolved Bootup does not finish anymore

Hi Larry, well I have been going through all of this again from the start, to see if there was anything standing out that we missed, as it really all started from a simple little PCIe fan dieing.
Going back to Lokenol's question some posts back you stated that, Quote: Can access in RC but not in Knoppix. Hmmm. I did determine that I can move stuff from the c drive to my d drive via the Recovery Console (RC). I cannot believe that knowing some DOS comes in handy in 2009.
Now did you actually move stuff to your D:
If you did move all your important stuff over than it would be no real issue if you formatted, or if you have enough space on that HDD C: you can load a new XP onto it in a new partition this will then give you the opportunity to move everything of importance to your D drive or just keep going less your original drive space for C, which you will be able than to format and clean up for other use. All you need is a minimum of 10 Gig for a new partition to load XP onto that.
Personally I doubt very much that your PSU would be faulty as you did not have problems running in Safe Mode, but it definitely will not hurt to test it, since after all all your problems started with hardware.
Your suggestion to Luke using Knoppix to clear your second drive then format for a new clean install certainly sounds like a good move.
Did you disconnect all your other drives and any other add on things from your PC when you tried to boot.
Unfortunately it seems to look more and more like a new install of XP coming up.
Well since you have a couple of days before you get your PSU tester (very handy tool, it can save you many hours of guessing) it will give you time to go through the software again.

 

Hi Hawk,

Actually the PCIe slots died, not the fan. As a test I moved my ntbtlog.txt file via "copy c:\windows\ntbtlog.txt d:\ "... very DOS, don't you think?

Not sure of this context. Did you mean when it first failed? If so, I was in the process of changing motherboards in an attempt to fix the PCIe slot failure. Other than that, no, same ol' hardware. Since the slots still did not work on the new mobo, it could point to the PSU, or Windows.

I'll let you know what happens when the PSU tester comes. Thanks a ton!

 

Windows will not cause the BIOS to not recognize the PCie ports...

 

I know that . My needlenose pliers were responsible for that! It is the subsequent incomplete Windows loading that I am now dealing with. Even if we get XP working or cleanly installed, I do not expect the PCIe problem to have gone away. My concern is what the new mobo might have done to my system?

If the PSU proves to be bad, did the new (used) mobo cause it's failure? Or was my original act of clumsiness followed by a encore?

Lar

 

The new mobo would only cause it's failure if its power consumption was higher than the previous one (either by design or faults), and it had exceeded the margin of overload that a PSU should have designed into it.

 

So, the new mobo could be faulty (since it should have the same load factors as my original one (same model).

While waiting for the PSU tester, I noticed that it seems that not all ATX PSU's are equipped the same way, with the same plugs, etc. Is this true? Is there a resource for matching a mobo to compatible PSU's? Thanks again, Lar

 

I received my very own PSU tester today. It has no detailed instructions but I assume that you plug it in, turn on the computer, and there you go! If that is all true, then the 24-pin plug is missing the -5v signal. All others test ok. Is that good or bad?? If that means that I need a new PSU, then I need to go back to what I asked in the last post.

It appeared in my last search for PSU's, that not all ATX PSU's have the same plugs. If you concur, then how do I determine compatability and is there a resource for that? If I am wrong, then what is suggested as a sturdy, basic PSU. My current one is an Antec 500W SMartpower 2.0 unit. Been fine up until now. This also goes back to whether or not my new mobo caused it!!

Thanks, Larry

 

OK, I just found this...

Well, now where the heck does that leave me? I guess what I don't know is how much current my PSU can provide. Right? Now what?

 

Hi Larry, slow down my Friend slow down.
First is your PSU Tester LED or LCD
It should have some instructions on the front or on the Box.
I would imagine they are all very much the same except the LCD ones will show you the actual reading of the voltage whereas the cheaper LED only have a green light to indicate power within a given tolerance is available + / - I don't know most likely depending on the model Thermaltake I would imagine would be fairly accurate.
As most of them are fairly identical you would find that on one side you have 24 pins for a 24 pin connector, but if your Motherboard is anything like mine you have one 20 pin and one seperate 4 pin connector you can not connect the 20 pin and the 4 pin on the same 24 pin connector but you will have on the opposite side one 6 pin one 4 pin that incorporates also the 8 pin, there should be a marking saying 4 pin <>8 pin and this is where you plug in your 4 pin not in line with the 24 pin strange yes but that's it.
on the other sides you have your 4 pin Molex and SATA .
Instructions given on my unit are:
1.Turn on your power supply
2.Plug-in your 24pin power supply connector to mini tester
3. Check LED light if ON or Off
(+5V. +12V. +3.3V. -5V. -12V. +5VSB.PG)
if the power output is working, the LED light and you
will hear a sound ( might not be on your model)
If the power output fails, you won't see the LED light &
no sound.
4.Plug HDD con, check +12V,+5V
5.Remove HDD, Plug p4(p6/p8)con,check+12V
6. Remove p4(p6/p8)con,plug FLOPPY con.,check +12V,
+5V
7. Remove Floppy con, plug SATA con., check +12V, +5V,
+3.3V
8. Do NOT plug wrong position when you use P4 connector

This is the correct way to test your PSU. Not just in out like on a night out in town
Try this and tell us what the results are, it should give you a reasonable idea on the status of your PSU.
cheers

 

Surely if you get a negative voltage, it's on backwards?

 

I was hoping for a quickie! I neeeeeeeeed one.

There actully are no instructions other than basically what you just said. It is an LED/beep type tester. I liked it because it was cheap, good brand name, seemed to cover all the bases and said that it had an internal load for steady readings. A load of what, I do not know.

Thermatake PSU Tester Info

I went through each plug and all looked and sounded (beep-wise) perfect except for the -5v on the 24 pin (which turns out to be irrelevent). Regarding SATA, I don't think that the tester is even relevant as my HDD's don't have a special power connector. Just the std HDD 4-pin and the SATA data wires.

Other than that, we are good-ish to go...... Not.

Thanks!

 

Hi Larry, good one.

Here is some more reading material, you may find it useful

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/616

hawk22.

 

Hi Hawk,

Interesting link, an esp interesting site. Lots of info.

Should I accept the PSU as good to go and move on to next challenge? I assume this to be doing a clean install of XP.

If that is the case, I have to figure out how to pull out the data that I need (iTunes, emails, etc) and clear my 2nd HDD of data (D:\) hopefully by using Knoppix, and unplug my primary HDD.

Otherwise, I am at idle with a tank full of gas but nowhere to go.

 

Lar,

I finally reviewed your thread and admire all that you folks have been through trying to resolve this. You can dismiss the no -5V reading as that standard has pretty much been phased out over the last few years and I believe it was originally only required on selective Intel Boards anyway.

Personally, I would expect a 500Watt Antec PSU to be more than sufficient but before dismissing the PSU altogether, lets philosophize for a minute. Some Video cards pull a significant amount of power, especially upon startup. If you were able to boot into safe mode (no high end video drivers load) but couldn't boot normally (high end video drivers get loaded), there is a possibility of inadequate power, albeit a nominal consideration. Substituting a regular PCI video card was a great trouble-shooting move but I would now question your video settings in the BIOS and your resident video drivers. It is a moot point if we can't get any kind of safe mode boot to remove the existing video drivers, but lets keep both the Video BIOS settings and those drivers as potential considerations. Assuming you can still get into your BIOS, lets make sure we have disabled System Bios Cacheable, Video RAM Cacheable and Video Bios Shadow. Write down any changes you make and put that aside for safe keeping.

Now, while on the subject of your BIOS, lets remember that you changed motherboards and your first board's settings may be quite differnt than those of your second board. Similarly, you may have a totally different BIOS revision on the second board. As a minimum, I would recommend clearing CMOS by moving your CMOS jumper from pins 1&2 to pins 2&3, waiting 10 seconds and then re-jumpering 1&2. Before doing this, you must disconnect the main power header (20 or 24 pin) that connects to the motherboard itself. Re-connect this after moving the CMOS jumper back to its normal position (1&2).
Try booting back up directly into your BIOS (usually tapping the delete key). Reset your clock and go through your manual to reset everything else according to their instruction unless you can remember most of your old settings on the original board. Write down the BIOS revision and put that information aside for safe keeping. Once done, F10 your way out and wait until the machine does or doesn't boot on its own. If given the selective startup screen, choose safe mode and then we can take out the existing video drivers for the time being. Either way, shut down after you've done all of that and research your current BIOS revision at the motherboard manufacturer's website. Understand that its entirely possible that your newer board has an older BIOS that might not even support that CPU - we need to get a handle on where we stand here before we start trying to re-invent the wheel.

While you are inside the case, pull your memory and clean the contacts with a soft pencil eraser (wiping in the direction of the contacts themselves). Clean these up with alcohol and dry then before re-seating them. Also, blow out your CPU heatsink again with canned air. Lastly, please note whether the BIOS chip itself is a surface mount removable chip or a permanent mount. Most boards 2-3 years and older used removable chips. If it is removable, we may want to swap BIOS chips but don't do this yet without further instruction. There is a small circular insignia in the die itself that is critical to proper orientation and there are a couple of tricks associated with pulling these chips to avoid bending pins, breaking sockets or breaking the chip itself. Not to worry - we'll cross that bridge if and when we need to.

I've got several ideas and am actually leaning more to a hard drive problem, however, I would like to go through some basics before we start trying to zone in on the actual cause of your current agony. Unfortunately, this excercise is going to focus more on ruling things out before we can start zoning in on particulars.

Your mailman should be greeting you by the beginning of the week and he will have tools so you can burn CD's whether Windows wants to behave itself or not. I'm sorry I haven't responded earlier.

Regards,

 

Hey Rock, great to hear from you. You're not one to take a challenge like this lying down. Before I jump into your treatise, I would mention 2 things.

One, I did notice that the BIOS revision on the new mobo was 1018 vs my old one being 1016. While on the topic, doesn't pulling the CMOS battery also reset the BIOS back to defaults (which I did when I first got it)? I tried my original settings and also tried taking many of them back to the CPU and RAM mfg standard settings. So, getting into the BIOS does not seem to have been an issue?

I do not have onboard video so I don't think that I have System Bios Cacheable, Video RAM Cacheable and Video Bios Shadow. At least I don't think so, as I can't find them on my Phoenix BIOS.

Two, my current status is that since my Windows repair install did not finalize, I can no longer get into Safe Mode at this time. I will get back after I cheerfully go through your checklist.

Thanks, Lar

 

Hi Rock, I was reading the ASUS manual and I was wondering.,,,

Since the new mobo has a newer revision that the original, do I still need to reset the BIOS? If so, the book shows that ASUS calls it Clear RTC RAM and it involves pins 1,2 and 2,3, and talks about pulling the battery instead of the 24-pin. If this sounds good, pls let me know. Meanwhile I will look for the jumper.

Oh, I did find a reference to the video in the BIOS.. PCI/VGA Pallette Snoop and it is disabled by default. Thanks, Lar

Edit: An FYI- I did find the jumper and it was on 2-3 instead of 1-2, but it must have been that way since day one... and it has made no difference. I guess without going through the procedure for clearing the CMOS, where the jumper is does not matter. At least, so it seems in this case, as it rebooted in the same dysfunctional way as before.

 

Lar,

Just went through this whole thread again. First, since you have a more recent BIOS revision on the new board, my earlier concerns are unfounded. As to clearing CMOS, I'm certainly not going to argue with a bunch of senior level Taipei techs, I simply gave you my normal procedure. If it comes down to what works best, go with the Taiwanese. I think you'll also find my procedure works quite well.

Having said that, I'm more inclined to fall into step with others who have questioned the integrity of your system drive. You've already run chkdsk /r from the recovery console but perhaps you want to try this again and you may also want to try fixboot and fixmbr. Admittedly, these are shots in the dark, I think something may have hosed your HDD or XPSP3 itself. Since the repair install didn't fix this, but took you backwards re: being able to boot into safe mode you could have some bad sectors on the drive.

The question I have for you is, what video card are you using now> Is it your PCIe 7600 or a regular PCI card. Do you have any way to test your PCIe card in another machine? The fact that you can see a BIOS screen is indicative that whatever card you currently have installed is working. If we could only get back into safe mode to remove your video drivers .......... we might have a fighting chance but ..........

I'm not sure what to tell you Lar. You've convinced me that you are more than up to speed on your BIOS settings and your new board's BIOS is 2 revisions beyond your initial board so I'm abandoning that approach. You've tried factory spec settings and the OC settings, so we can leave well enough alone. You may still want to bump your core voltage slightly but use caution and do this in small increments.

Keep us posted on your progress and please forgive my ramblings. I think I'm in agreement with Hawk22 and Lukeno1, it's getting close to format time. Hopefully USPS makes a delivery tomorrow and you can copy off or move any files. I'm also going to ask someone else to take a look at this thread - we may be able to kill those video drivers another way.

Regards,

 

Hey Rock,

I am currently using the PCI card, the PCIe slots are still dead. I'll go back to the Recovery Console and try the fixmbr and fixboot as last resorts. I know that the mup.sys file thing is nebulous as there seems to be as many causes as there are apparent mup.sys failures.

I am also going to clean the RAM contacts. I had taken them out a few times to see if it worked better with one or the other, but no.

Oh, last night I unplugged all of the non-essential devices like CD-roms, 2nd HDD, Floppy and my PCI TV and sound cards to see if they may have affected the Windows bootup. It only just got to the same point (mups.sys) faster, no net change.

Thanks again.

 

I ran fixboot with no benefit. I was going to run fixmbr and it stated that my mbr was either inaccessible or non-standard and that if I ran fixmbr, I ran the risk of making the partitions on the drive inaccessible. That obviously stopped me in my tracks. My c drive is a single partition and always has been .

What do y'all think? (no betting allowed)

 

I'd hate to wear the badge of courage when patience sounds like a better path. Lets wait until we get everything copied off that drive and then I'd say, go for it - it sounds like a good next step.