Windows Vista Why Vista?

Hello,

I have several friends that purchased Vista in various flavours when it came out, and their general reaction was "OMG Vista FTW! "

However, after about 3-6 months, they had all switched back to Windows XP Pro SP2/SP3. Their complaints were numerous, and reasons for switching back understandable. I personally experienced nothing but a laggy and sluggish OS, more annoying "features" than XP, etc. I did like some things, such as a revamped Add/Remove Programs GUI & functionality, the built-in support for higher bitrate / khz and channel audio, and what seems to be a more robust version of Compatability Mode.

However, all things considered, Windows XP Pro SP2 was at the time a much better choice for my needs, be it Gaming, Browsing, Word Processing, or Surfing.

I am wondering, now that Vista SP1 is out, why this OS is being used? I would like to hear feedback not from Microsoft fanboys, or people who bought it just because it's new and shiney, but long-time users of multiple OS's, and/or power users that have consciously chosen Vista and stuck with it.


Thank you ahead of time for you input!
--DK

 

Ouch. I forgot lesson #1 of using the Search function. Thanks.

EDIT: Put the info I found in a new post/reply, instead.

 

In the threads i've found so far, people are essentially saying "I think it's better than Xp." without giving any details on WHY they prefer Vista. In fairness, many are saying "Vista *****." without providing details as well. However, that being said I have experienced Vista first-hand, so I don't need details/explanation of the fact that it was/is half the speed of XP (at best), half as stable, all while requiring roughly 200% the CPU and RAM requirements of XP Pro. Keep in mind, this is comparing a fresh, out-of-the-box installation of both OS's.

Out of the 20 or so "XP/Vista" threads that i've now read on this forum, here are some highlights:

I generally don't use any vanilla diagnostic tools, and have no problems running ScanDisc / Defrag overnight. Although running Defrag normally only takes a couple hours. That being said, having them go much faster would be very nice That's a plus for Vista. Personally I don't use System Restore.

Ridiculous. XP can run reasonably with 512MB RAM, and runs great with 1GB RAM. My main right right now was built in 2003/2004, and runs without a hitch on Windows XP Pro SP2 (actually SP3 now), and this is doing everything you can think of - programming, using FireFox with 50+ Tabs open, gaming with "fairly new" games (Doom 3, Oblivion, etc. run just fine) and others. I admit I don't play cutting-edge games currently on this PC, but both of these games were pushing the envelope in the graphics and resource-usage department when they were released, and keep in mind this PC was built 4 years ago. The RAM requirements of Vista are pathetic for what you get in return.

Why?

Eh.

Details please? This actually sounds pretty cool so i'd like to know more

Yes, however:

'nuff said.

So more mouse clicks are required to do exactly the same things? Awesome.

Exactly.

If that's so, then why does it require ridiculous amounts of RAM just to boot into Windows Vista itself, and the GUI is very sluggish on the same GPU and hardware that is snappy, smooth, and fast on XP Pro? And why does it's "idle usage" after boot equate to at least 2x the RAM used than XP did? (fresh install without tweaks or disabling of Services).

Aero = GUI update. Eh. Cool-looking, but not reason to install a new OS. WiFi updates = Eh. XP's WiFi support works fine. What are these "under the hood" changes, though? That sounds good

'nuff said.

What new security features exist, that are actually useful and increase security in practice? (not perceived security, and/or theoretical security gains referenced in documentation) I have no issues with Windows XP Pro in regards to security, and any other geek/power-user shouldn't either. The initial iteration of Windows XP, before any updates or Service Packs, did have security holes that allowed instant infection by viruses and malware upon connecting to the internet. Thus, it's natural and completely unsurprising that Microsoft would fix this in Windows XP SP1 (which they did), and prevent it in the first iteration of Windows Vista. (which it sounds like they did)

Back to Windows XP -- as long as you are an Intermediate user and make sure to get all Windows Updates / Micrsoft Updates installed, you are fine. If you install SpyBot and Immunize with it, as well as having a NAT Router (doesn't everyone have a NAT Router these days?) you will have even less security issues than you theoretically might have had when using only the newest Windows Updates / Microsoft Updates. I frequently go to "blacklist" websites on my main rig and haven't had any problems with spyware, malware, or viruses in over a year.

I will fully admit that the Search funtion is cool and useful This is a win for Vista for sure.

Examples please? I have not noticed this on Vista systems i've used. Then again, these systems probably didn't meet the ridiculous RAM and CPU requirements...

Yep.

Dumb on Microsoft's part, in a big way. Lack of backwards compatibility is only justified by profit margins and greed.

This means a lot considering it comes from an MVP. QFT.

Ummm yeaaaah. XP has this. It's called the Run command.

Yet another quote from an MVP.

 

XP SP3 is good. We run it on two laptops with only "Operator errors ". Auto updates now, and improvements all over the place for the system and Microsoft consuber software packages as well.

I run Vista SP1 on my HP desktop (2MB Ram). Installed OK, I run wireless network, laser printer and inkjet and broadband and all drivers (bas 1) loaded and still lo0ad automatically.
I like using it, don't mind a spell while it loads, and can't really understand the fuss. I updated mainly so I wouldn't be hassled with the next version . . . and I just love fiddling with new stuff. Still, I guess I'm just one of the "average" users and not n expert. NB I started with a Tandy TRS2, whenever that came out.
MikeH

 

Okay, well I decided to do the math of the quotes above After reading all those Vista vs. XP vs. whatever threads, I think the various quotes above sum up the opinions (that actually gave details) and concensus pretty well.

Let's see what the score is, shall we? Okay, let the fun begin!

[............]

Final score:
* Vista = 13
* XP/other = 18

There ya go. Interesting, actually closer than I thought it would be. My margin of error is likely +/- 3 points or so.

 

Thanks for the response.

My problem is that IE Explorer Beta 8 DOES NOT APPEAR ON THE UNINSTAL LIST!
As as roll back is concerned, it's nw a few weeks since the install and Vista'srestore system seems to go back only a few days (because of the number of overnight updates, which make up a sizeable list of their own). I haven't worked out how to lengthen that list of restore points.

MikeH

 

What do you need to know?! I use Vista Ultimate on my multimedia machine - a hot rod PowerSpec X301 with no side effects. My main applications include, Office 2007, Photoshop CS3 Extended, Premiere Pro CS3, Illustrator CS3, Dreamweaver CS3, Flash Professional CS3, Fireworks CS3, Encore CS3, Vegas Pro 8.0, Acid Pro 6.0, CD Architect 5.2, DVD Architect Pro 5.0, and other lesser applications.

I have Home Premium on two other desktops and one gaming laptop. As far as I'm concerned, other than waiting for drivers for my M-Audio audio interfaces (no fault of Microsoft - well maybe a little), Vista, as an OS, is great - Just Like XP but more secure and networking capabilities are pumped up.

I been using a PC since the latter days of Windows 95. As far as I'm concerned, Vista is what it should be.

Listen, as much as I love looking at Macs, I could never bring myself to buy one because they haven't been as cost effective as a PC. My son has an iPhone - those are cool!

 

An Endless Non- Issue - A Case of the Emperor's Clothes

Talk about the same question being answered over and over and the same question being rehashed to no suitable avail
Its all the "emperor's clothes" and the tale of a market monolith trying to enforce it's will to move hardware and software sales onward
Several points here
- first of all users were primarily not unhappy with windows xp wheras many were not happy with the predecessor of Windows XP - that is Windows ME
Windows ME ( Mellenium Edition) for those not familiar with it could be referred to as Bill Gates revenge - the last of the 98 line
It froze repeatedly and had a host or reasons why people were ready to rush to upgrade to XP as a major upgrade and update of operating systems
This is not the case with XP
Many , if not most users , are not unhappy with XP
Every week I listen on twit podcasts to a microsoft apologist explain why Vista is a good thing , not a bad thing etc etc etc.
It all sounds good until I ask my son who debunks the rationale in one minute and starts to laugh at the poor and downright foolish attempts at logic.
The one use for Vista is for some gamers who want direct x x for effects in some games
Many of these users , if they are competent , or have access to technical people dual boot XP and Vista - using Vista only when required or essential for those effects
The reason for Vista's growth and acceptance is that the majority of computers sold now are proprietary computers from major vendors such as Dell , HP etc
Vista is the OS product being sold now on the majority of these computers and in big box stores
True the price of the new components and ram is so inexpensive .
Old hardware and ram is generally a lot more costly
One could purchase a new box , and upgrade it to XP
But when the cost of the XP license and the cost of installing xp and finding the drivers are all incorporated ( if you have someone who can take the time to do it and hunt out the drivers ) it adds up and is just not worth it
So in terms of a new computer and cost structures - then its generally simplest and cheapest to go for Vista
Its all marketing to lead the horse to water and have the computer buyer come to the realization that he or she might as well choose Vista
Better ? Not necessarily . But the marketing and pricing has moved the market along . Or that at least is the hope of Microsoft
Although people on this board , have a higher degree of technical ability and questions than the vast majority of computer users it must be pointed out that most computer users do little more than simple email , internet browsing and for kids MSN and downloading of music etc.
Many people indeed are most proud of their computers and proudly declare ( I could not make this up) that their high powered computers are "Solitaire Machines ". This is said with great emphasis and pride.
Most computer users biggest bang for the buck would be to simply improve their typing skills. Somehow with older people the biggest stigma somehow was to be a typist in the office whereas many kids who went to college found out that perhaps the wisest choice of any course in high school might of been to take typing class and as well perhaps auto shops.
In many cases the people who tell you "I love Vista " or "My wife and I / me just love Vista" are doing precious little with their computers at all.
The next biggest humor is the people at big box stores buying laptops when in the end all these laptops are are either pieces of furniture or status symbols that are placed on a desk , never to be moved and seldom even turned on. The best part is where the big box stores make their money is on the extended warranties ( laptops can break down if used or carried around ) and on accessories such as laptop bags and security cables.
In the end all of this discussion is a non issue that is being hashed and rehashed endlessly to no end.
Its a case of the emperor's clothes
Microsoft holds the largest majority of the computer market by far - almost total. No one could or would tell Bill Gates otherwise the reality of the situation that computers already were more than powerful enough , and that people were not unhappy with Windows XP or neither were at a point where features were being overused or stretched to the limit
On top of that this was seen as a means of forcing upgrades of hardware as drivers for older hardware were not made available for Vista obsoleting much hardware and forcing users to buy new hardware and easiest of all ready vista capable computers whose hardware would many times not even setup with the new Microsoft Vista
Obviously at this point in my computer career I remain unconvinced of the need to upgrade / downgrade to Vista yet and both do not see the need yet nor any benefits worth the changes. In fact it can be argued or held by some that a change to Vista from the Microsoft XP Operating System OS is effectively a downgrade.
The amazing part of all of this is some computer users who would never ever considered a Mac for a computer have switched over to Macs. Then again I have one such friend who purchased a high end Mac laptop - it gets turned on once week to check the battery. The older XP IBM P4 seems to remain the basic computer of use. I hope to get first dibs on the Mac when its time for replacement comes.
Have no fear Vienna or whatever the next Microsoft operating system will be called is currently scheduled for release in 2009 . Who knows ? Lets hope that there is more good reasons to do the change and upgrade than to switch from Microsoft XP to the new Microsoft Vista Operating System OS.

 

V I S I O N_O F, Please fire one of your cannons at GM, Ford, and Chrysler for making crappy cars. You are like a hurricane! Your negative comments in reference to Vista are not legitimate because they are in reference to something you haven't tried. Microsoft doesn't force anyone to do anything. If you don't want or like to upgrade, don't. I think Microsoft does a darn good job of creating an OS that works with a really, really wide range of hardware and applications. I couldn't do it and I thank Bill Gates and all his buddies and pals and all those Mac/Apple people - all the early inventors and developers of computers and computer related products - because they have made my life better - my career better.

And really, as you have already admitted to know little, technically speaking, about computers, your emperor has no clothes either - and he drives a Ford!

 

Did you actually read any of the quotes above? All of them were from people who have used or are using Vista. That's why I quoted them -- I had to sift through many threads and posts (probably 100+ posts easily) to find such posts that had concrete features/comments listed as to why they did or didn't like Vista, based on experience. Read everything again and then respond with something constructive like the quotes I have provided

EDIT: As I said, and you would know if you actually read anything above, my friends used Vista for months, and originally liked it a LOT. This is none of your opinions / gripes above. I admit I didn't use it very long, but I did this before much of the bad press, and because my friends liked it so much. I do agree it (VistaOS) is "pretty" and has a cool GUI and UI, and as I said above (again you would have seen this if you read the full post/posts) there are definitely things I like and find useful in Vista. However, the lack of performance compared to XP Pro, combined with other ridiculous laggy, combursome, and badly-thought-out changes, made me quickly decide that Vista is not right for me, and is a big step backward in Microsoft OS's. This may change, but probably not until SP2 or SP3 for Vista is released.

 

... I find Vista can be tweaked to perform as well as an previous version of Windows. Not a step backwards because as there are as many improvements under-the-hood as well as the ones that are obvious. There is no point in sitting on the sidelines. Get your feet wet - don't be afraid!

 

Vista on day one was a more mature OS than XP.

It manages user files and data better; keeping them contained rather than spreading them wherever.

And how about Control Panel/AutoPlay? Try to find that in XP!

 

in reply to mr. fixit ( whose post i did read) these are all legitimate points in regards to the question of why Vista ( or why not) ?
Microsoft is a monolith in the computer field who frequently push their weight around
Just go into a big box store and look at how many software vendors have been left on the market beside microsoft . Look at the percentage of computers sold that do not have the microsoft os.
It is true that no one is forcing you to buy windows or update / downgrade to Vista yet few computers are sold now with XP and for many they may not access to the resources to have XP installed on a vista computer if they wish to
That is in addition to cost factors that have been structured into not making such a choice
In terms of the American car industry - look at where the industry now
Because they american car industry felt that they had a captive market ' "We do not want to build econoboxes . There is no glamour / profit in it "
Instead Chevy built the Vega and Ford the Pinto
No entry level vehicles
Hence kids cars were datsuns / nissans and toyotas
Guess what those people drive now as brand only upscale
Microsoft ( or specifically our dear leader Mr. Gates) felt that they were in the same autocratic situation and could dictate to the market what they wanted to do or felt was best for the market / profitability / microsoft / the world
The statement made that was that "what was good for General Motors was good for the US ".
Look at where the US car industry is now as a result of their high handed mentality. Do you see any similarities in Microsoft's line of thought , marketing strategies and approaches ?
Its just a discussion of marketing approaches not a diatribe
Hopefully all points presented have some validity
At this point in my computer career I am perfectly happy with XP and see now reason to change.
One other point to make is in regards to tech support available to vista
Many tech orientated people see little reason to become familiar with vista
This is now changing to some degree with time

 

visionof, that meaning you will never upgrade to LCD, or plasma TV either stick with the old 15" TV in the plastic wood grain vernier cabinet.