Dilemma: Swap out entire motherboard, or install only Atheros-N card???

Alright, I have a decision to make. I received another T60p from a buddy, who went Mac on me. After carefully questioning his sanity, he seems to be alright.

At any rate, he had installed the Atheros a/b/g/n card in his Thinkpad T60p. His is a slightly newer model, even though the motherboard is supposed to be identical, and his CONSISTENTLY gets a 4.3, instead of a 4.2 that I get, even with the SAME video card. Might there be a small improvement that was fixed, or does that happen for a different reason.

Having said that, I'm not after the .1 difference in the Vista scores lol..., but I don't know if I want to mess around with my jewel of an LCD, around which my whole Thinkpad is based on. I do not, under ANY circumstances, want to mess it up. He also powered his baby up by installing a T7400, so since he did BOTH, I asked him which had been more intrusive an operation, the CPU, or the Atheros card, as he obviously has a clear basis for comparison.

He said that installing the CPU was a piece of cake vs. the wireless card, as a disassembly of the screen is required for that operation.

That said, would it be just easier to swap motherboards, and then put my T7600, hard drives, and the RAM onto the motherboard, which will already have the Atheros-N card?? I imagine that I still have to deal with the screen somehow to get the wires for the card to go into it...

I really want wireless-N. The third option is, of course, getting a PCMCIA or Express card, which would stick out of the system. That would be the safest way to go, but ideally, I'd like to have everything internally.

What say you guys??? I'm ready to do one of the above, as wireless-N will benefit me tremendously! Thanks!!!!!!!!!

 

Hi C-D,

I don't know about the others, but I actively try to avoid opening up a laptop. I don't view them as easily upgradeable. Apparently, yours has the capability to swap "cards ", but I would guess the manufacturer expects any work like that to be carried out by a (IBM?) technician. You seem to know there may be risks.

Me, for changing, upgrading parts, I stick with a desktop computer. To me, laptops are not made to have their hardware constantly changed. You seem to like to try. It will be your decision in the end.

I won't give you advice on something I would not do myself.

Some of us know laptop hardware, although they tend to be built differently between makes/models. The best place to look would be in the service manual or maybe find a laptop enthusiasts website.

I hope you get some response, although it seems to be out of our league (area of expertise).

Matt

 

Thanks Matt! Yes, you're right, I LOVE to try. And so far, I've always come out on top, and everything has always been easier than expected. Certain components do void the warranty, which is why I keep the original components that I upgraded from in a safe place, in the highly unlikely event that I will ever need warranty. I am saying this with confidence in the Thinkpads, as I've had 12 of them in 9 years, and I have NEVER needed warranty service, ever.

However, I thought about this some more. If I swap the motherboard, or the screen for that matter, it won't do me any good, as I would have to mess with the screen either way. If I swap the mobo, the wires for the N card are not automatically going to be behind my screen, but rather the card itself would be, and replacing the card is the least of my worries.

That said, I am thinking to maybe use the WWAN antenna for the N wire??? What do you think? I could use the two cables for the diversity a/b/g antennas, and then take out the WWAN card and antenna, as I don't use it anyway. I have Verizon, so it would be an honor to throw that thing out of my Thinkpad. This would maybe be ONE, and likely the only way, to get the N card installed and not have to mess with my screen!????

One more thing. I won't need a, or b, and I have my router and current Intel card set to only use 802.11g, so would I be able to just put the N antenna and leave one of the others "hanging" without connecting it? I don't know enough about how this works exactly, but might that be a viable solution? This would be even easier???

What say you, sir?

Thanks again Matt! I know I can always count on you!!

 

C-D, you have conned me into making a comment, I have never owned a laptop . I have a wireless G system in my desktop.

Information here:
http://www.laptoprepair101.com/

Forum:
http://www.laptop-repair-service.co.uk/laptop-help-page.htm

They might be able to give you some info or direct you to a forum here:
http://www.motherboards.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=3

Matt

 

Try finding the card manufacturer's website, look up the manual for it or information there about the antenna.

Matt

 

MATT...what??? lol...j/k...I was going to say "Well, then you oughtta get one" lol...If you ever do decide to get a laptop, make it a Thinkpad. I've repaired, operated on, played around with, virtually every other brand, including even one of those Alienware monsters. Not...even...close! By the way, is that repair service your business? Looks interesting!

At any rate, nothing ever came close to the legendary IBM, and now Lenovo Thinkpads. I had my last desktop in 99, before I switched into a Thinkpad. So it's been 9 years, and I've owned 12 of these babies, and sold literally hundreds of them. Mostly all T series. I've never had so much than ONE warranty issue, or complaint from a customer. When I got my first one, it's like I was freed. lol..Yes, yes, I know. I'm so melodramatic.

Tip: Stay away from the T30's, as well as the T61/p series. If you ever want to check one out for cheap, I highly recommend the T42p series. They can be had for little money. But be careful. You'll be hooked from the word go! IPS Flexview LCD's have only ever been made for Thinkpads, and for very specific ones at that. They should be sold with a medical warning sticker next to the COA. "Turning on this machine has a huge potential for addiction. Use with great caution, and proceed at your own risk!" haha...

Proof: Why do you think I have upgraded mine to the highest specs that the mobo will allow? The T61/p's no longer have IPS, so I am going to keep my current T60p indefinitely. That's right, you guessed it! IPS! AFFS IPS (sometimes referred to as "Super IPS ") in my case. If you offered me 10k.......*sterling*.......I wouldn't give this baby up.

Take care!

 

Tony, that would be AWESOME!!! Alright, just so as to be sure, please allow me to give you some add'l info:

On the exterior of the laptop, there are TWO antennas, one on top of the lid, on one the right side. The WWAN for Verizon is immediately underneath the 2nd WiFi antenna, so in a way, it's a third antenna.

Before I open up my Thinkpad, what am I looking for? I'm asking because I have two T60p's, one is my main one, a 2007 (has nothing to do with the year) model number, and the other is a 2623. The person I bought it from did an Atheros N transplant, and he said the screen was very much involved, and he also said that the process was very "tedious ". Hmm...He may not have known that there is an easier way.

So under scenario one, I would simply attach the 3rd cable to the Atheros card, once it's installed. Easy. So the 3rd antenna would be already installed in the back of the screen, and only waiting for the card, so to speak, correct???

Both were manufactured in 2006, so they're both well within the 4 years you mentioned!! Your second statement was also very encouraging.

If it is not there, would I be able to use the WWAN antenna? I will never need or want it, so could I unhook the cable that goes from the WWAN antenna to the card, which is located all the way to the LEFT of the motherboard, so it would easily be long enough to reach the Atheros card, which I checked already, when I opened up my 2nd T60p where the Atheros card is still in, and simply plug it onto the Atheros card??

You know how to put someone in a euphoric state, my friend!

Thanks, and I can't wait for your answer to above. Thanks again!!

 

Well, I did open my own up a while ago, and it has the Intel 3945ABG card. My 2nd T60p had the same one, but the person I bought it from upgraded it to the Atheros (a.k.a. Thinkpad) a/b/g/n card.

I'm a little confused as to what you meant as far as "whether it's already capable of N WiFi, click this link "...Well, if you meant if the Thinkpad a/b/g/n adapter is listed under possibility, then yes, it's on the list, but again, I have the Intel 3945ABG card. When I installed my T7600 CPU, I didn't really look carefully as to whether it had any cable taped in the area where the card resides, which is very close to the screen, so I'll have to look again. I opened the 2nd one up, and I saw the Atheros card with three antennas attached.

Is that what you meant when you said to check and see if it's "capable "?? The a/g/b/n card is on the BIOS Whitelist. The Intel 4965ABGN is not, however...???

Thanks again!!

 

Cool. Thanks again, TonyT! Alright, I'm goin in! It's no biggie anyway. In the case of the T60p series, I only have to remove the palm rest, and they key board, and I'll take some pics! If there is a third antenna, that'd be supercool.

By the way, the date this baby was manufactured is 3/2006. IBM/Lenovo always stamps each machine with the date "underneath the hood ". Was "n" around then? I want to say yes, but I'm not sure. Hmm...

 

Alright, I did some research and here's the jist. Apparently, only CTO (Custom To Order) models get the add'l N wire. I opened mine up, and could find no cable near the card. At any rate, I am ready to do this now.

Is it really true that the Atheros cards are simply "better ", and have, perhaps, a wider range? I could use a slightly better range, N, or no N. I just installed the Atheros card, and it was quickly found by Vista, but silly me forgot to put the appropriate drivers there beforehand. So back in went the Intel 3945ABG.

I'm going to download the x64 drivers for the Atheros a/b/g/n card now and re-attempt. It takes 5 minutes. All I have to do is remove the palm rest, fingerprint cable, as well as the keyboard, and detach its cable that connects it to the motherboard.

Second question: As Tony mentioned, I could possibly use a cable that doesn't necessitate going behind the screen, which was great news. There are TWO cables that connect the WWAN card to its antenna on the right side of the screen. I don't use it, as I said before, so would I be taking a risk other than that it would simply not work, by using one of the WWAN antennas coming from the WWAN antenna and put it where the "N antenna" goes?? Also, which of the two cable would I use (one is blue, one red), or does it even matter? Finally, is there any way that I can mess ANYTHING up by attempting this? Anything, such as shorting anything out?

Thanks for any replies. I am so ready!!! lol...At least, so far I know that the card works, and later tonight, I'll reattempt just connecting the non-N cables to see if there is any improvement for G alone. I'd love to hear about my idea about using the one of the WWAN antennas as the N antenna, so to speak!???

As much as I want to do this, under no circumstances do I want to take the risk of screwing up my Thinkpad in any way.

Thanks all!!!!!!!

 

Update!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just installed the Atheros card after getting the Vista x64 driver installed, and without attaching anything to the N part of it yet, and it is...GULP!!!!....BLAZINGLY FAST!! This thing beats the HELL out of the Intel 3945ABG card. And I'm only using it with 802.11g so far!!!!

This is sick. My network says EXCELLENT now, instead going between Fair, Poor, etc. and..well, I'm just blown a-WAY!!

Now to the N part LOL...as it IS the a/b/g/N card. The gray cable went to the right place, as did the black wire! The third (middle) cable is what I need now, and, well, an N-capable router!

The WWAN card has one red, and one blue, so I don't know which to use there, and I should use WWAN at all.

All I know is that thing is FLYING HIGH now. MUCH more range apparently, as the Intel card was also transmitting at tremendous speeds when I went closer to the router, but now, even in the room I'm in, which is about as far as I can physically be away from the router! What should I do to get wireless-N...

 

Hey Tony,

Thanks for the reply! Well, the Atheros-N card is CRAZY FAST!! Could it be that it makes G slightly faster, as it's just screaming FAST!! It's more likely that Atheros makes one of the best cards, period, which may be the reason?

And yes, you're right...I'm gonna keep on keeping on. haha...Is your contention still correct, if I buy a full blown router, vs. just an access point, which is what I wanted to do anyway. The Linksys 600N or 350N look good. I wonder what the difference is, except the price of course. lol...

Finally...You said the LENGTH would have to be just right. It looks to me that it would be considering where the WWAN card resides and its antennas, as well as the WiFi card and the antennas...Doesn't WWAN operate at 2.1GHz? I'll definitely write a full report so that others can benefit!

Thanks again!

P.S.: So far, the nay-sayers have been defeated, and there were many, a few of whom ever so quietly emulated what I'd done after the fact:

UXGA w/AFFS IPS, DONE! T2500 --> T7600 DONE! Vista x86 --> Vista x64, DONE! 802.11g --> 802.11n, IN PROGRESS!

 

Alright TonyT, you obviously know your stuff. Awesome. Thanks for the very informative links. There are so many things about this that I simply do not understand, so I'll shorten the list of questions. Otherwise I'll feel compelled to pay you for your expertise and time.

Well, I don't know if I posted to the extent that I HAVE INSTALLED the Atheros card (a/b/g/n) already and am currently using it with the TR1 and TR2 plugs. It's an N card, but I am not using the middle one (R0) which is dedicated for N as far as I understand (??).

So the speeds I'm getting now are G speeds, and they are night and day from when I had the Intel 3945ABG in my Thinkpad. I honestly feel I bought a new technology when I put in the Atheros N card...I was that wow'd, and totally didn't expect anything close to this.

A few more questions: I read up on how wireless works, especially with 802.11n in mind, of course. Is it a contradiction I'm seeing when you say the lengths of the antennas have to be exactly one way for them to give you optimum speeds, but at the same time, for those who do not have integrated WiFi of any sort, and use a PCMCIA card instead, aren't all the antennas fairly close together?? This doesn't quite make sense to me. This theory of mine would be even more true in PDA/cellphones with WiFi, as the antennas are not only extremely close together, but also tiny, in comparison. Again, this is just a theory based on what you said about the antennas being apart even using a specific formula!??

As for getting just an Access Point, I might just do that, as I am not at home now. I'm in Germany visiting family and also to take advantage of a double-aribtrage business oppotunity, but that's besides the point. Let me talk about routers for now, as I have not looked into AP's just yet. What do you like for an N router? I'm a Linksys or Belkin guy...mostly Linksys. The 600N is the "DUAL-band" one with the 5GHz band, whereas the 300N-330N-350N series seem to be SINGLE-band routers. How much, if at all, am I gaining going with a dual-band router, which is twice as expensive, but I want to do this right, so let's not let money interfere right now. Would the CABLING go ANY different with a dual band router/AP vs. a SINGLE band router/AP???

Next, and I think we touched on that already, is perhaps using the WWAN antenna as the third cable. I think I remember that you said that the WWAN cards operate at 2.1GHz...does that sound right? I would think that the CARD, NOT the cable, controls the frequency?? There are TWO cables coming from the Verizon WWAN antenna to its card, which is suspiciously placed so that it's about exactly the length that the other two are which go from the WiFi card up behind the screen. The WiFi card is a bit closer to the WWAN antenna, but I can certainly run it so that the cable's length remains what it is now.

So...(looking for an easy way out lol), should I attempt to disconnect one of the cables and attach it to the remaining plug on the Atheros card, and see what happens?? I am going to run out tomorrow or the day after, and buy an Access Point. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense. So again, with that setup, should I see the crazy 200+Mbps speeds?

I followed the links and read through the antennas that the first site offers. Wow, they're quite inexpensive. How would they fit into this equation? Would I use one of those and connect the Atheros card with the WWAN antenna? This was a PURE shot in the dark? Did I hit anything??

Alright Tony, thanks again. When, not if...WHEN I get this working with your help, I do want to do something for you. Learning the ins and outs is so much fun. So you must be compensated. lol...Anything electronics (from cellphones, to hard drives, to cards, to RAM...name it!... ) I hope I didn't just insult you.

So what do you think about my ideas and theories?

Thank you, as always!!

 

Awesome, thank you. Ok, it's time. I purchased a DUAL BAND 802.11n router from a company called AVM. It's the same company that my dad's IT guy uses when I'm not around, and he did up my dad's system nicely. It looks exactly like the "G box" he has right now, so tonight, I'll switch everything over...to N!

Alright, about the antenna, one FINAL question. I have a loose antenna, and, of course, two antennas that the WWAN card uses. Will either one do? It seems you're saying to leave the antenna INSIDE the casing of the laptop?? I shouldn't attach it to anything?

I hope I'll get a response before I get this baby up and running. I think you're in NJ, if my sometimes cloudy mind serves me correctly. I have to configure the phones he has through ISDN still rolleyes, and then I want this baby firing wildly throughout the house, at N speeds of 200-250Mbps (if not higher) by 8pm ET/5pm Pacific/2am CET.

I'll report within 15 minutes of doing several speed tests, which I will then post.

Thanks again dude! Do we get AVM products in the U.S.? They have a distinctly German, and silly sounding name, with funny looking lettering. It's called FritzBox. lol...But it's rock solid. Not ONCE did I ever have to reset the current router in 6 months.

Take care dude...you've helped me a lot! And it was fun!

Crunch

EDIT: I hope Vista x64 won't get in the way as far as drivers are concerned. It works so well that I keep forgetting that I'm running 64-bit! YEA!