I think my laptop is about to die...

Very interesting, nice find Pete. No, I didn't have this manual. Page 85 is the magic page with the ones before that showing the disassembly steps. Also should provide some nice cleaning access...

 

Just curious, what's "FRU "?

 

Ah, explains why the constant references.

 

So, thanks to Pete, I found it! I pulled the keyboard out from the chassis and disconnected from the mainboard. Cleaned things out the best I could AND found the CMOS battery. ...to bad I don't have the new ones yet

Incidentally, based on what I could see, it looks like the kids at CircuitCity cleaned everyting out before I got to it as things looked pretty clean on the inside.

So, she's back together and I'm typing on it now. I wish I could report all is well, but it still lock up periodically. When it does I keep pressing on spots below the left of the keyboard on the chassis (always in this general location....don't know why...and pressing, not banging, I swear!) and things eventually come back to life. But it's a real PITA at the moment.

Though, I'll say this much, if the new CMOS battery does NOT fix things, I'm at a loss as to what to try next. I have an original image back from 2006 (wouldn't use the newer images) that I could try as a restore. But I really doubt this would make a difference based on being able to "press" the laptop back to life (...electronic CPR anyone?).

It's a learning experience at the minimum. Never tried to pull a laptop apart (at least not to this extent) before. Took some of mystery out of it, which is a good thing.

 

You keep referring to typing and the keyboard. Could something have been spilled on the keyboard (and most beverages have sugar, which remains sticky). A theory(?)...when typing the connection gets jammed, when you push on the chassis, it releases.

I always keep Contact Cleaner handy. I would use the C/C on the keyboard (holding the machine upside-down so it flows back out). C/C needs to be allowed to completely dry and disapate before restarting the machine.

Matt

 

Tom1971:

Replacing the CMOS battery or batteries isn't going to influence the behavior of your keyboard. It will keep your machine from losing its settings again. As to the freezing or lock-up culprit, I think you may be getting close and there have been some very good suggestions along with manual links and references. Its difficult to give you a magic answer but it sure is bahaving like a bad or intermittent connection and (Thanks to Joe) it appears that it may be in close proximity to the "Poundable Bulls Eye" below left of the keyboard. When you pop that lower shell apart, inspect any potential ribbon cable connectors and be careful - some of these can be paper thin with single strand wire. They are made to be disconnected and reconnected but use common sense and don't force anything.

The keyboard cleaning is also a good thought and if you have some mechanical aptitude, you'll find the keyboard itself is pretty easy to remove for even better cleaning. Get yourself some reading glasses or a magnifying glass if necessary. And, to echo Matt's warning - don't try to run until all moisture (even alcohol or contact cleaner) is completey dry. Use a hair drier on low heat if necessary.

Good Luck Sherlock. What bar did you send Joe to tonight?

 

So, I dreamt of my computer this morning…yes, I’m that crazy. I had it on and it wasn’t showing a clock time in the lower corner; I was thinking "Ah, Ha! It must bet the battery!!â€. Then, and I’m not kidding, my friend Joe called, the caveman type who discovered the pressure point, and wanted to know if I wanted to go to the mall shopping.

Not much new in the real world to report. Bought a can of air-spray and tried to clean out the area the responds to the pressing action. Just removed the keyboard and pulled the chassis up a bit (nothing harsh "“ I swear), also cleaned out around the memory and hard-drive connections with air.

Results = nothing better, nothing worse. It’s a bit infuriating as I don’t have the skills/confidence for complete disassembly which would allow me to see any connections in this area of the chassis/mainboard area.

Have not called the kid at Circuit City for a follow up, I know he took the laptop apart and put it back together. But not sure to the extent/level he did this, gonna have to get his assessment here.

Oh, and here’s another item worth mention. Both the HD and Memory are located directly below the lower left of the keyboard in the chassis, within the general area the responds positively to pressure.

A thought, faulty memory?

Can’t wait to get the CMOS batter, curious as to what might happen.

Matt,

You might be right, don’t know. Probably worth a tried to RadioShack or something to get some contact cleaner. But still, my skill set won’t allow me direct access to the "sweet spot" under the chassis that seems to respond to the problem.

Rockster,

A bar? I’ll just send him to your place…maybe you’ve got something that needs fixin

 

Just another observation, the area around the pressure point, which is basically the left/front section of the chassis around is much warmer than the corresponding right/front hand section. Not sure if this is at all significant as the RAM and HD are located on the former side. More importantly, I’m also not sure if it’s any warmer now than it was in the past, it’s just not something I ever really paid much attention to.

 

The "kid" probably has some Contact Cleaner. Could he spray out whatever is accessible as an "additional service" (you could remove the RAM and HDD, before you took it over)?

When Windows is installed on a fresh system, it runs like a dream. After you add all your programs...and they install background programs and services...the checking programs start check files, including the "continual" build up of temporary files, the RAM is going to get loaded with more things and the HDD is going to do more work. They will run hotter and since they are in close proximity they won't make it any easier for the other to be cooled.

I don't expect physical pressure (pushing the chassis) will have a relationship to heat, but I would not venture to rule it out.

Something I wonder...is the main keyboard connection in that area? Probably the main questions we see asked here, about laptops, are keyboard and display problems. When the freeze happens, make a note of what you were touching at the time.

[I have a seen computers freeze because they lost the connection with the keyboard]

Matt

 

I'm going to have to get some cleaner at some point; maybe see what I can do about disassembly of the chassis from the mainboard.

Thing about the keyboard is that it's connected to the mainboard right below the space key. Plus I've removed the keyboard, blown the area with air and replaced.

I'm really starting to lean towards RAM. Everything a PC does requires interaction with RAM and the RAM card is located below in the vacinity of the pressure point.

For example, the HD stops, you press; it starts again. But interactions of the HD require RAM as an intermediary. Perhaps, and this is just a theory, the HD "locks" because RAM is failing and therefore CPU interaction with the HD is being blocked.

Also, sometimes the entire unit just "locks" even when the HD is doing nothing. Now, it's my understanding the every CPU action requires memory interaction. And I also don't believe these older mobility chipsets had much in the way of CPU cache, nor do I know how CPU cache interacts with normal RAM. But, RAM failures might explain some of the locking I think

I'm by know means certain about RAM, but I'm suspicious.

Sadly, the more I think about all this, the more I don't belive the CMOS battery will be much help. Hope it gets here soon, even if just to satisfy curiosity.

 

Drat! You have me wondering.

If you want some tests, I will give you some, because that is what I would do (when possible).

There are memory diagnostics in my signature, run them overnight if possible.

Do you have access to another laptop with compatible RAM? Try that.

Is the RAM getting overheated? There should be temperature readouts in the BIOS. Compare cold-start (idle) readouts to those after you "reset" by pushing the chassis and then rebooting.

Go to Task Manager -> Performance Tab, check Page File Usage, Physical Memory -> Available and CPU Usage.

The Pentium 4 laptop that I was working on, which appeared to have heat problems, would start with fans running at 100%, when Windows was loaded they stopped, then heat problems seemed to arise.

Maybe you just need more RAM. I suppose if you are making the RAM run at 80 or 90% capacity, doubling the size would reduce the load (not the throughput capability though).

Use the Contact Cleaner on the RAM module. Fats and oils in the air could coat the exterior and reduce cooling (do you smoke?).

Think about reformatting and reinstalling Windows (I don't think you mentioned it). I have my system backed-up and would not hesitate to do it if I thought the system might be "old and stale" or the system was working incorrectly (test another RAM module first if you think that is the reason]. People seem to want to keep their operating system going forever, it doesn't work like that when you are continually making changes.

It may not be the RAM, it may be the way the motherboard runs the RAM. Components on the motherboard may be breaking down.

The "bulls-eye ", see if you can zoom in on the sweet-spot and discover what is underneath that section.

Matt

 

Tom:

Again, in all likelihood, a CMOS battery isn't going to correct this behavior. Before plunging too deep into the theoretical cause, stay focused on connectors. Now that you are getting a little more confident let me add another caution - do not squeeze that hard drive with even modest pressure. Always grip it by the sides, never hold it pressing top to bottom.

It is quite conceivable that your keyboard itself or one of the keyboard connectors has opted for early retirement. You should be able to find a replacement for about $20-30 if you are a gambler and want to try some part swapping. You can also try a USB keyboard but may have to set the BIOS to recognize it.

I ran into an Dell (think it was an Inspiron 1100 but thats from memory) about a year and a half ago that had taken on water from a ceiling leak and the owner tried to fire it up while it was still wet. After drying it upside down for two days with the shell open, I was unable to boot without a USB keyboard. It did boot with a USB keyboard. I wound up replacing the original keyboard for less than $20 (yes, it was an older machine) and everything was fine.

If you had any other symptoms, I might be inclined to pursue something else but based on your problem description I would stay focused on whats under the "Bulls Eye ". I also would at least go talk to the young man at Circuit City and share this thread with him. You've been fortunate so far, but bear in mind - its also pretty easy to muck things up inside of that computer and render it useless.

If Joe needs work, we'll find him something to do. Talent like that is hard to come by these days and he deserves credit for finding that "Sweet Spot ".

 

Just installed the CMOS battery and, as expected, not the answer. It still ocasionally locks.

Interestingly, I would have thought that time would have reset back to original BIOS setting when I pulled the old battery out. It didn't. Just surprised here.

Some good suggestions on the above two entries, thanks guys.

I'll go as far as I can with all this. I mean it IS working, right.

Contact cleaner, will do.

Re-install Windows, can't do. The laptop didn't come with a copy, though I have the key on the back of the machine. However, I do have an original Acronis back up image I created last year. Have not re-installed from that back-up. Actually, never re-installed from any backup ever (first time for everything) Not sure about about the RAM, seems to be okay, but who knows.

 

The magic bulls-eye is still working it's magic? I might expect that to be the key (although I have seen some strange things ).

You seem to be of the school "why is that happening ". I think Sherlock would be an appropriate handle. You are asking questions, unfortunately the answer may not be plainly visible.

CMOS battery, I had some hope there as well. Look in the BIOS settings for "Quick Boot" or "Quick Start" (wording like that), disable it (set it to full-boot) and see if there are changes. Also see if there is a menu "Autodetect Hard Disk Drives ", run that. [The CMOS did not reset when you changed the battery, there was enough power left in the capacitors to hold the settings.]

Let us know how you work through the suggestions we have made. Watch for if it may relate to something in particular (keyboard?).

Matt

 

It's dead, Jim....

As I right this, I'm sad to say my ThinkPad R40 is lying beside me on the living room floor. The most it seems to be able to do is enter Windows install and crash shortly afterword. The magic spot has mostly lost it's magic, only able to offer intermittant spots of light on the now darkened hours of my electronic workhorse.

The best I was ever able to try was more disassembly and air-cleaning and I also changed the BIOS to run a longer memory scan (never came up with anything thoug).

Bought a new (to me - used really) IBM T42 from ibmfactoryoutlet on ebay today. This ones got a 3 year warranty and was bought with an AMEX (which also adds to the warranty). The R40 was sadly only warrantied for 30 days.

At the least got to learn a few things and tinker with the inner workings of a laptop, something I've never done.

Tell you what, the ThinkPads really do seem to be workhorses. The R40 was definitely built like the proverbial brick/house and was definitley knocked around some before its demise. Should be interesting to see how the T42s are built, it's my understanding they're all pretty solid in construction. As a comparison, the Dell D610 I'm writing on just feels flimsy by comparison.

Thanks everyone for their input on this though, all of it was certainly appreciated.