PC won't boot......

Hi Guys,
I dunno if this is the proper area to ask my question, but -
About a week ago a friend (who had a gutful of 'techs' trying to charge her $1,000 to repair her Pent 733) phoned me in distress.
I suggested she buy the components for about $300 and I'd assemble a new PC for her.
I gave her a 'shopping list' - Asus (cheap) mobo, AMD Athlon 3200, 250GB WD (SATA) HDD, 1GB (generic) RAM and a case (with PS).

Put it together loaded with XP Pro (SP2) and she took it home.

About 3 days later she phoned me to say that she had loaded P/Shop CS3 (an illegal version I believe) and when it asked for activation she clicked 'Activate by phone', the screen went blank and it hasn't booted since.

It goes through BIOS and has a black screen with a cursor blinking for a few seconds and then just goes completely black with no error messages
(power still on).

I have no idea what is going on and I do live a distance from her, so if I 'go the distance' I want to be appropriately armed.

Is it possible that P/Shop could corrupt Win XP that much as it not be able to boot?

[as a prologue, when I first put the thing together I had trouble keeping power to it (it would power on for about 10 seconds and then shut down (nothing connected except the front panel)). I reseated the RAM a coupla times and it was OK.]
As I said, I'm a little lost cause I'm trying to sort this out on the phone and will have to travel a few miles, so want to be a little prepared when I get there.

PS. I got her to go through BIOS and it DID read the HDD and full amount of RAM.

Any ideas,
Den

 

Hi DeeGee88.

A program install wouldn't cause a PC to crash and then prevent if from loading XP.

What do you mean by "it goes through the BIOS" ? Does this mean that the BIOS POST (Power-On Self-Test) completes and then the PC hangs when it tries to load the OS ?

If so I suspect a hardware problem. The 2 main suspects are the RAM and then the hard drive.

RAM
Some RAM is simply incompatible with some motherboards. Other times the BIOS isn't written properly and it doesn't adapt to the RAM specifications. In many cases the PC builder can adjust the RAM timings manually to make it "stabile ".

You can fully test the RAM by using Memtest86. Download the ISO image file and burn it to a CD using Nero, Roxio or CDBurnerXP Pro. Make sure the BIOS is configured to try to boot from the Master CD/DVD drive before it tries to boot from the hard drive. Your system will boot from the disc and Memtest will start running automatically.

Menetest86 should report no errors in 3 complete passes. This could take some time.

http://www.memtest.org/

http://cdburnerxp.se/download.php

If any errors are found and you have multiple sticks of RAM installed then uninstall all but one stick and retest each until you locate the bad one. Bad RAM can not be repaired. However, if you bought the RAM yourself keep in mind that most reputable RAM companies have a lifetime replacement policy on their RAM. You will need the receipt or an electronic copy of it.

What is the make and exact model numbers of both the motherboard and the RAM ?
_______________________________

HDD
It is alarming that the percentage of hard drives that are being manufactured now are defective right from the factory (DOA) or fail very soon after (Infant mortality). Go the manufacturer's web site and download the diagnostic and run it. They generally are burned to a self-booting CD that doesn't require the OS to run in order for the test to be done.

You can find them all here:

Seagate/Maxtor/Quantum

Western Digital


Hitachi/IBM

Samsung

_

 

Hi WinCrazy,
I meant it goes through POST then hangs with a blank screen. No sign of OS at all.
My first suspicion was RAM so I will attempt to take the steps you have suggested.
As I said - when I first put the thing together I had trouble keeping power to it (it would power on for about 10 seconds and then shut down) - NO drives connected. Removed and reseated RAM (1 stick DDR2 667 1GB) and it was up and running.
The thing that gave me doubts about that, though, was the fact that BIOS still recognises the full 1GB of RAM????

"What is the make and exact model numbers of both the motherboard and the RAM ?" - As I said, it's not my PC and is many miles away so I don't have access to that information. BTW, it did run without drama for about three days before this occurred.

Den

 

Hi Den,
The suggestions sound very good to me.

If the software was from a dodgy source I might wonder if it did not carry some type of malware that may have "killed" the Window's boot system.

The blank screen with a flashing cursor after POST should be when the BIOS is looking for an operating system. It may be that the boot information is corrupt. One person that very good with the boot files is surferdude2. Use the (advanced) forum search function to look at his replies to similar problems (maybe he will see this).
You will find you can make startup floppy disks. Me, I would try booting to the Windows CD and going to the Recovery Console. There I would run the Fixboot command. [One BIG pointer will be if the Windows CD can see the current Windows installation... meaning it is still there, but maybe not intact.]

Does the power supply have good Wattage? If it is a low-end power supply you may need to get twice as much Wattage as you expect to need, read here and run the calculator (if you can remember the hardware configuration):
http://www.journeysystems.com/?powercalc
Then compare the result to the information printed on the label of the PSU.

You will need to take along diagnostic software that boots from floppy or CD. There is a memory diagnostics program in my signature, but it is probably best run overnight.

Go into the BIOS/startup configuration settings. Use the "system (setup) defaults" setting.

Matt

 

Hi mattman,
power supply is 550w - should be adequate - no internal optical drives, one HDD and that's it...
I don't mind an overnight test because, as I said, the PC is quite a few miles away so chances are I'll prolly have a beer with them and stay the night.....

Also, when I organised to build it for her, I gave her a 'shopping list' of exactly the same as I used about 2 months ago to build myself the same PC - only differences were a slightly different mobo (didn't have the same one in stock) and different brand of RAM.

Thanks for your input. I can't see my way clear til about monday (just wanna be prepared)

Den

BTW - notice you are from Sydney, (I'm a Brissy boy) I'm hoping the Cowboys are gonna KA tonight.........

 

No internal optical drives? Floppy drive? The BIOS may be getting confused when it is looking for drives to boot from.

Check the boot sequence in the BIOS settings. STILL, it may look for boot devices (if it has a floppy drive, set that as first device, then the HDD). Even still, some BIOSes may not have this sequence.

If you have an old CD internal drive, I suggest putting it in.

Footy, don't follow it Same as Cricket. I know we have advantages in Lawn/Indoor bowls

Matt

 

She has an external DVD-RAM (USB). I used my internal DVD-ROM to load the OS. No floppy drive, doesn't really need one but has one if need be. Boot priority is set correctly. As I said, it went fine for about three days and then spat the dummy.

That's the thing - it was going great. What I am trying to get a fix on, is it a hardware or software problem? I'm preparing all options before I make the trek in an attempt to fix it.

I'm glad I'm not a tech, cause I'd have ripped ALL my hair out by now. ****, it's a PIA just trying to help a friend out....


Den

 

If you find you don't have the utilities, consider bringing it home with you (if you can set it up somewhere). I travel around with my car loaded with almost every utility on the internet and half the time with computer bits and pieces (I strap them in with seat belts) It is not much use to them in it's current state.
I will start a diagnostic/test running and walk away to do something else, just check it's progress every now and then. It also allows me to think of what test I will do next and what else I could try. (You will have the internet available if you need information or downloads).

If you are running out of time, and as I was saying, if the Windows CD can see the Windows installation on the HDD, do a repair reinstallation of Windows. You will find this option after the Eula.

Think about taking the case of your own computer, or maybe just the RAM, for swap testing. Push the modules in with pressure on both ends, the clips at the ends should rise up and (pretty much) seat themselves in the notches.

Does it have a floppy drive installed? Apart from the boot sequence setting, most BIOSes have a setting "Floppy drive seek ", which may give the BIOS a little trouble. I am only thinking that there may be something minor in the hardware setup or settings that may cause "occasional" bad boots/startups. I like to set up a computer the way the BIOS expects it to and not so it may have trouble if one of the settings is incorrect (I usually get the motherboard manual of any computer I am working on and check every setting).

Don't fix it too fast if the hospitality is good

Matt

 

I got her (on the phone) to download and burn memtest and to go into BIOS and change boot sequence. She loaded the CD and booted - same result, black screen. It didn't or couldn't read the CD. This is sounding like a faulty mobo.

Any ideas more?

 

You will need to check that the CD drive is set to boot before the HDD. It could be still booting through to the HDD. She may have to watch for a screen saying "Press any key to boot to CD ", that lasts only for a few seconds, then goes on boot to the HDD if no key is pressed.

Matt

 

Hi Matt,
thanks for your time.
I explained to her (and talked her thru the process) of setting boot prority in BIOS but she came up with the same zero result.

Looks like I'm gonna have to take a trip and do it myself. Unfortunately my time is limited.

I'll take my new PC (as I said, it's virtually the same) and go from there.
I've got the disks for memtest and WD HDD test, but how can I do a test on the mobo without pulling the whole dam thing to pieces (once again, I am on limited time)

Rgrds,
Den

 

First thing I would do is try booting to the Windows CD and see if the current Windows installation could be recognised.

Testing the motherboard is virtually swapping hardware that is attached to it. The main ones we think are the problem are HDD or RAM. If you have the same motherboard in your computer you can swap the HDDs without a problem. Could there be a short to the motherboard (the motherboard is not bolted in squarely). Note: don't try taking the CPU out, it would not get through POST if there was a problem.

If the HDD is the problem, and you have the same motherboard, you can take the HDD with you and work on it at home.

Matt

 

Hi Matt (and others),
apologies if I'm a little vague with a few points as I didn't write things down as they happened!!! Had a good time the night before.....

I eventually got to the errant PC, ran memtest (Passes=3, Errors=0). Put in the XP Pro disk and chose repair; came up with some strange message but it then gave me a C:. Typed dir and came up with another error (NOT file not found), some other negative, but dir on d: drive showed mp3s she had loaded. BTW - I originally partitioned - C=20GB, D=80GB, E=150GB.

Rebooted and went install; came up with c: drive - raw data (20,000mb) . Clearly something totally wiped the system drive. (d: & e: drive seemed to read ok).

Deleted c: partition. Repartitioned at the same size and formatted NTFS.

Loaded OS - all good. All runs well EXCEPT after booting, comes to Windows XP screen for about 10 seconds then monitor goes totally blank for at least 3 - 5 minutes before displaying the Welcome screen and going on to desktop. After which PC runs fine.

I must mention that the installation process seemed to be VERY slow (maybe my imagination as I was running short on time) and that she has an external DVD-Ram drive that I was using.

Any more thoughts?
Regards,
Den

 

You did well Den.

Whatever caused the C: drive to "disappear" could still well be around (not completely repaired).
When there are problems after a fresh install I am never really satisfied and I would not be surprised if the same thing happened again. Hopefully, it may be something else apart from the partitioning/drive information.

Black screen during the Windows loading process would first make me wonder about graphics drivers (there is a problem loading the drivers). After installing Windows, next step is to install the motherboard chipset drivers, then the graphics drivers, then I would do audio and any others after that. Windows installs a basic set of drivers to get you to the desktop, after that you should install the manufacturer's versions. If the system is stable, but does not seem to be working 100%, look for driver updates at the manufacturer's website (Asus, I assume it uses onboard graphics so you will find those there as well).

Possible file system problem? Right-click on each of the drives in My Computer, select Properties -> Tools -> Error Checking, check the boxes "automatically fix..." and "Scan for... ". You will need to go back and run it on each drive.

Investigate the chipset and graphics drivers if you did not install them.

Matt

 

Hi Matt,
I did load the mobo video and sound drivers after loading SP2. Yes, it is ALL onboard (sound & video) and no updates (at this stage) from Asus.

Thinking now along the lines of HDD probs. I have tried to D/L the diags from WD but really am not sure what to D/L (so many different options).

I haven't heard from her for about 4 days, so I would believe the PC is still operating. I explained to her why she should go and make a cup of coffee while the thing is booting cause I don't have a clue why it takes so long.

Maybe I should just reformat & repartition the whole drive (ie: start again)

Rgrds,
Den

 

If I found that sort of problem after a fresh install, I would do some basic checks, but unless they were to solve it quickly and easily, I would start again.

You can look in Device Manager to see if there are any problems listed. If so, and you have installed the relevant drivers, highlight the device and click Uninstall (or right-click on it and select Uninstall).

This may work, but I would go another step further and zero (low level) format the Boot Sector.

Data Lifeguard Diagnostic for DOS (CD):
http://support.wdc.com/download/index.asp?cxml=n&pid=2&swid=30
(scroll down)
This program can test the drive, but the result of any errors is mainly to check the cables, retest and if the same message appears, replace the drive. Use the option to write zeros to the drive. The "quick" option will overwrite the boot sector. The "full" option will overwrite the whole hard drive (use this if possible, but it will take several hours).

After the zero format, use the Data Lifeguard Tools (11.2) for DOS (CD):
http://support.wdc.com/download/index.asp?cxml=n&pid=15&swid=53
Build and format your partitions. It should be "like new ".

Matt

 

Just an added suggestion. After you get it set up and drivers installed, etc. and install the antivirus, there should be an option to make a recovery disk/s. These may get you out trouble in a few minutes if the same thing should happen again. (I expect it should be able to build a boot CD).

Matt