USB / POST Problems

I have been working on a buddy's computer and I have run into something that has me stumped.

This computer has two external USB devices attached to it; a printer and an external hard drive. If both devices are turned off when the computer is booted then everything is good and Windows loads normally. Either or both devices can be turned on once Windows is loaded.

If one or both devices are turned on when the computer is booted then the manufacturer's boot screen comes up (the one telling me to press Del to enter setup or TAB to see the POST message). This is where the computer locks up and will go no farther (until it is rebooted again).

If, during the boot process, I press Del or TAB then it will get past the manufacturer's boot screen and start the POST. It will go only so far and then it locks up again, always in the same place. Here is what I see during the POST:

Initializing USB Controllers .. Done
2040 MB OK
USB Devices: 1 Hub, 5 Storage Devices
Auto-Detecting Pri Master .. ATAPI CD-ROM
Auto-Detecting 3rd Master .. IDE Hard Disk
Pri Master: ATAPI DVD A DH20A3P XP5P Ultra DMA Mode-4
3rd Master: ST3500630AS 3.AAK Ultra DMA Mode 5, S.M.A.R.T. Capable and Status OK
Auto-Detecting USB Mass Storage Devices ..
Device #01:

That is where it hangs up every time no matter which device is powered on. Now, I'm no expert on this stuff but it kind of looks like I have a USB problem here.

I should mention that the Hub mentioned on the 3rd line is a powered external USB hub. The external hard drive is connected to this hub. The 5 storage devices are, I believe, the card reader on the front panel. The printer is connected directly to one of the USB ports on the back of the computer.

This isn't a major problem. Everything works just fine if my buddy remembers to turn off those two thing before he boots the machine but I don't think it is right so I would like to find out how to fix this. Anybody got any ideas?

 

Thanks for the advice but that didn't do the trick. I searched the BIOS and, in particular, the boot section and could not find anything about a USB boot device.

I looked at everything that said anything about USB (whether it was in the boot section or not) and could find nothing that would allow me to either enable or disable booting from a USB device.

I did a through search of every section in the BIOS (whether I thought it might have something to do with USB devices or not) and could not find anything.

If there is something that I am missing or if you are really sure that I just overlooked something then please let me know about it.

 

I would be interested to know what you find odd about this line.

I'm sorry, I've confused the issue a little. The computer wasn't in it's final configuration when I quoted the POST. Along with a floppy disk drive, the computer has 1 DVD burner and 2 hard drives. The Seagate drive (the ST35) is an SATA drive and is the 3rd master. The second hard drive is a Western Digital PATA drive and it is set up as the Slave on the one IDE channel that this mobo has. The DVD is set as the Master on that IDE channel. This arrangement wasn't my idea, it was the way the BIOS insisted on having it and I didn't feel like fighting with it at the time.

I actually have the floppy set as the 1st boot device, the DVD as the 2nd and the Seagate hard drive as the 3rd. I figured that the sequence of the floppy and the DVD were just a matter of personal preference.

I have checked the boot section of the BIOS multiple times and have not found anything like what you are talking about. The boot sequence part of the boot section will only allow me to designate 3 boot devices. The drop-down option list for these 3 boot devices only has 4 options; the floppy, the DVD, the Segate hard drive and Disabled. The next part below the boot sequence allows me to designate which is my 1st and 2nd hard drive. I have my Seagate selected as my 1st hard drive and that is why my Western Digital does not show up in the options list for the boot sequence.

Nowhere else in the boot section or anyplace else in the BIOS does it refer to making a USB or "other devices" into boot devices. What you are saying makes sense to me that somewhere in the BIOS it should offer me the option of enabling or disabling "other devices" as boot devices but I'll be darned if I can find it.

 

Try again. Are you using master/slave jumpering or CS? I suggest having one or the other (one as master and one as slave or both CS).

If you have several USB devices, apart from mouse and keyboard, I suggest running the others via a self-powered hub.

The BIOS may not like the MBR/partitioning/formatting information on the drive, even if it is not trying to boot from it. Example(?)...the drive may, say, have had it's MBR "inoculated" by an antivirus.

Matt

 

Thanks for replying to my post Matt.

To answer your question, I am using the master/slave jumpering. His computer came with the old 40 wire ribbon cable so I thought it best to use the manual jumpering.

The keyboard and mouse are both PS2. The only external USB devices on that computer are the printer and the external hard drive. I have the printer plugged directly into the USB port on the back of the computer. I did have the external hard drive plugged into the powered hub but I have since moved it to another USB port on the back of the computer to see if that made any difference (it didn't).

Just judging by what I have seen in the POST and in the BIOS, I believe that the first USB devices that the BIOS checks are the 4 drives of the built in card reader. I am going to try unplugging the card reader and see if I still have the boot problem with one of the external devices turned on.

I'm not sure I fully understand how the MBR/partitioning/formatting would effect this problem but I am not inclined to believe that this is where my problem lies. The reason is that the computer came from the factory with the hard drive installed and operational and the BIOS liked it just fine. It has only been since I have been dinking with it that this problem has popped up.

Another thing is that, until last night, this computer did not have any antivirus software installed on it. It did not come from the factory with any antivirus software. I'm not sure how the MBR would have gotten "inoculated ".

 

Inoculate is not really my point. A minor change in the MBR information is.

Have a quick read through this thread:
http://www.windowsbbs.com/showthread.php?t=67014

The BIOS is a relatively small program. Because it is small and "simple ", if it comes across something it cannot load, it just stops. There is something that is causing it to stop, you have isolated the problem to that drive.

Whatever it does not like about that drive, I don't know. My suspicion would be MBR/partitioning/formatting.

If you are at (get to) a stage where you can move the data off the drive, then reformat or even remake the partitions, that may rectify the problem (or even rebuild the MBR using the drive manufacturer's utilities).

Don't connect it at startup and only connect it when Windows can load/install it...that is your choice.

Make it work from startup...I think you will need to do some work on it.

Matt

 

Thanks Matt, I think the "inoculate" term is what confused me. I believe I understand what you are talking about now.

As it turns out, I have a good recent back-up of all the data on the hard drive so I plan to blow-away everything on the hard drive including the partition and start from scratch. I won't have enough time to babysit the computer for that lengthy process until this weekend. I will let you know how things turn out.

I don't know if I have a dark cloud hanging over me or if I have had a jinx put on me but everytime I get one problem kind of figured out, something else goes wrong.

I have noticed that the computer has gotten where it won't restart. If I load a program that requires the computer to restart or if I just do a restart instead of a shut-down, the computer won't even get as far as the POST. When it hangs-up I can manually shut it down, wait a few seconds and then start it back up. It loads just fine then but it won't restart. A minor problem but it is not right. I will live with this problem until I get this other issue figured out.

BTW, I read the thread you sent me and it was interesting. I even visited the link you sent to me and I used the power calculator to make sure the PS was big enough (it was by a good margin). Thanks.

 

Restart problem now? If problems go from one to another, don't discount that a major part of the system is failing. Big letters...BACK UP YOUR DATA!

If it was a problem that you have only seen since adding new hardware, I might investigate that. One problem after another...some piece of hardware may be failing.

Look at the capacitors on the motherboard (these are the cylindrical shaped components that are attached to the motherboard). If they are swollen or leaking, that is probably the cause.

It may be that just one part of the motherboard is failing.

You can try doing a BIOS upgrade. Go to the motherboard manufacturer's website and find the correct BIOS upgrade for your motherboard model (read the instructions carefully). If your system is at all unstable use a floppy disk method of BIOS upgrade (not a Windows based method).

Like you said:

Think about the situation where it might not start up at all, I would, if strange things were happening.

Matt

 

Hi DougS. The important information in the posted link from mattman is:

"Unbelievable as it may sound the problem was/is with a USB thumb drive which when installed on boot created the problem.
I can FULLY LOAD ALL peripherals..excluding the troublesome thumb and boot is OK. "

USB ports on XP are problematic for a very many people. Few proper solutions have been found.

Patient: "Doctor, Doctor ! It hurts when I do that. "

Doctor: "Don't do that ! "

External USB hard drives and flash/thumb drives are notorious for causing startup hangs. Disconnecting them or unpowering them is the only solution. It's probably a bad interaction with the BIOS in that particular model of motherboard.
-------------------
It just occurred to me that there may be a BIOS update from the manufacturer that may fix the problem.

 

Just a quick thought. It seems to be revolving around the BIOS. If the system is a few years old, replace the CMOS battery, this is the silver coin-like battery on the motherboard. A discharged battery should not show these types of problems, although the battery is there to hold the BIOS settings when there is no power available. The battery may be at a stage where it "not quite" holding the settings. I would replace it to rule it out as a possible cause. (A few dollars from where you buy camera batteries).

If you are up to looking in the BIOS settings again, look for a setting "Quick POST" or "Quick Boot ", disable this. Use Full POST, if only to help you with having things set as basic and not introducing problems of their own (...help you tackle one problem at a time).

Matt