Switching from 98SE - pros and cons

I am taking the plunge on getting a new PC and have a mind boggleing (at least for me) question.

I've put off this for almost two years now because I am concerned about getting all my data over to a new system. And although I repair PCs the software scares me. I now have 98SE and really didn't want to move to XP for several reasons.

1/ I still have one DOS program which has several databases that I don't want to lose.

2/ Our company choose to avoid XP and we've heard a lot of horror tales.

3/ I've been happy with SE, although I am concerned with how long it'll be an actively supported OS.

4/ I'd thought of going to W2K also/instead.

My questions:
Is there a way to get my programs and data to a new system easily?
What are the pros and cons for a home user to go to XP, W2K, or stay with SE?

Sorry to have so many questions, but I'm being retired from a failing company, which means my 401K is alomost gone and my pension is shaky. Since 90% of my PC usage is volunteer for churhcs and non-profit groups this is a BIG decision for me.

Thanks for any insights!

 

XP has a "DOS emulator" so it's possible that you'd still be able to run this program. MS did release a list of programs which could be run via the "emulator" - but I can't track it down at the moment!

Have you ever known an MS OS not to be criticised? XP is no worse than earlier OS's; in fact, most people would say that it's an improvement.

IMO, if you're happy with 98, you should stick with it. Whilst the consensus of opinion is that XP is better than 98 - I don't think it's *that* much better.

For a variety of reasons, I'd suggest either sticking with 98 or moving to XP.

You may find this helpful.

 

Hey Cal,

I switched from 98se to win2000Pro.

I switched back because I found 2000 to be bloated and slow and added nothing that I needed.

I understand 2000 and XP are supposed to be more stable but I find no instability in 98se. (I did in 98 1st addition) I had incessant freezes and crashes. I may switch to XP down the road next year after they get the updates and patches for it finished.

Do you use Partitioning? I ask because that would be the best way to save your files for backup and would make switching pretty much a breeze.

 

I'd have said the same thing (keep 98SE if you like it) if we were talking OS Upgrade on an existing PC. But since Cal is talking a new PC and simply moving existing data to the new one, I think XP makes better sense.

Cal - W2K in this case would be the worst of two worlds since you would still have to get used to a very different way of doing things and would be getting an OS that doesn't have as good support for older apps, USB, and a few other things.

If you will have just a single PC at home, then XP-Home will do nicely. XP-Pro has more features but costs a little more so you should do a bit of research and see if the trade-offs are worth it. I've only run XP-Pro at home so can't give any first hand recommendations. I can say that once I got used to the OS, I love it and would no way want to back up to an earlier version. But do expect a bit of a learning curve - about like moving from WFWG to Win95 in many ways.

If your dB runs on 98, I strongly suspect that putting it in 98 emulation mode will run it fine. You can do that with a simple check box/drop down once you have a shortcut built. You may also have to do some of the tricks your 98 box is doing now via autoexec.bat and config.sys. In that case, you need to know that NT systems that have a need for this use autoexec.nt and config.nt which are located in windows\system32.

As to moving the data, direct cable connection will do the trick. You basically set up a network connection using a serial (I think) or parallel null modem cable. Plenty of sites with good how-to instructions.

 

Then I would not change. In fact DOS is one of the reasons I went back to 98FE. It has the same good DOS support that 95 does.

From what I have read XP does have the "DOS emulator" but I don' think that would be the same as DOS. And as brett mentioned, I also hear it can be selective as to what it will or will not run. Unlike 95 ( a & b ) & 98 FE it more than likely would not run just any old DOS program you can throw at it.

If you wish to maintain good solid, no nonsense DOS support I would not go any higher then SE.

I was told the same thing by the Shops that I shopped at for this New PC. In my case mostly for the DOS reasons.

I read somewhere ( no idea where tho ) MS is supossed to be archiving the older windows support and still have it available.

BillyBob

 

Cal, I put off the move to XP for a long time, because I loved the configurability of 98 SE. What I didn't love was how easily the registry got corrupted, and I became quite adept at using scanreg/restore.

I have been using my new computer, with XP Pro, since March, and I can tell you this: there is NO way I would go back to Windows 98.

The most difficult thing to get used to is that XP was designed to support multiple users, unlike 98, which is a single-user system. Even if you will be the only user of your computer, as I am, XP will maintain at least two accounts and three "user folders "; as a result, XP is not nearly as configurable or user-friendly as 98 SE was.

That said, XP is far more stable than 98 SE, and the system restoration feature can bail you out of almost any jam you can get yourself into.

If you plan on keeping your 98 computer, even if only for awhile, it can be networked to the XP computer quite easily, and data transfer is a breeze.

One last thought: when buying a computer with the OS pre-installed, XP Pro costs only about $50 more than XP Home; I think it's worth it.

Good luck!

 

The Idea is fine.

However it would only work sucessfully if the program and its data would work in XP.

Quote By Cal E Which I believe to be his main concern. ( and mine also ) And a perfectly ligitament one.

I would say that this may refer to an older DOS program which would raise the question of it working in anything above Win98SE.

I had ME for awhile and it would run older DOS Programs but not with the same stability and ease as 95, 98FE or 98SE will.

If I were Cal E I would leave that 98 SE machine as is until the day it died of a natural causes.

If he wants to build ( or get ) a new one then go for the newer OS.

BillyBob

 

BillyBob, all I can say is "If you haven't tried it, don't knock it ".

As both Brett and Newt have suggested, DOS emulation should work just fine. I have an old DOS game that behaved in rather flaky fashion with 98 SE, but it's rock-solid under XP Pro.

I have to admit that, initially, XP had me tearing my hair out. I hated the new "Luna" GUI, and I couldn't find things where I expected to ... all part of the learning curve that Newt mentioned. In fact, I even considered formatting the hard drive and reinstalling 98 SE ... the only thing that prevented me from doing just that was that the graphics card doesn't support Win98.

Once I configured the GUI to the Classic look, to the look and feel of Win9x, if you will, I felt more at home, and began to appreciate the features and stability of XP. I haven't had a system crash in the four months I've been using this computer, whereas one or more per week was the norm with 98 SE.

It was necessary to buy upgrades to a few commercial programs (PartitionMagic and Norton Utilities come to mind) but, almost without exception, the programs I used with Win9x work with XP Pro. I also had to replace a SCSI adapter card, as the manufacturer was no longer in business, and NT/2000/XP drivers were not available.

Other than that, the changeover from 98 SE to XP Pro went very smoothly and, as I mentioned in my earlier post, there is NO way I would go back

All that said, Cal, if you really need a newer, faster computer, go with XP. If you're happy with the computer you've got, stay with 98 SE. Even if Microsoft discontinues support for the OS, as they have announced, their present support is marginal, at best. There are plenty of help forums, and hundreds of books, available to provide the support you need.

As I said before, Good Luck!

Jim

 

I had no intentions of implying that things would not work.

I just printed what I call food " Food for thought "

And I believe that is somewhat what the opriginal poster requested.

Any version of OS can be chocked full of surprises. I have had my share. What is supposed to work may not. And what ain't supposed to work will.

But I see no harm in pointing out various POSSIBLE problems when changing the OS in hopes that no surprises unexpectedly pop up.

And when three Professional Technitions also agree with me I kind of tend to believe them. And all three said that if I was still running DOS software to stay with Win98. Because it will run in 98 whereas in XP it might or might not.

As both Brett and Newt have suggested, DOS emulation should work just fine.

They are being honest. Saying "it should" is a lot different than "it will. "

And there are no gaurentees as to what will or will not happen when installing a new OS. What may work fine for you and your system may CRASH mine in no time flat.

I have an old DOS game that behaved in rather flaky fashion with 98 SE, but it's rock-solid under XP Pro.

I also have an old dos game that was flaky in SE. It refused to run at all in ME. But WORKS GREAT in FE.

And as for me trying XP, I see no reason to waste my time or $$. I have three machines all running 98 and doing it quite well. I do not see where XP ( or any other version of Windows ) would do me any better than what I have right now.

And don't throw the old standby " IT IS MORE STABLE " at me either. I have not had a LOCKUP, ERROR or BSOD in MONTHS. And more than likely won't if I keep 3rd party software and spyware off of and AV & Firewall running.

BillyBob

 

I wasn't trying to bust your chops, BillyBob, and if you're happy with Win9x, that's great. But, if you "have not had a LOCKUP, ERROR or BSOD in MONTHS ", you've got to be one of the luckiest Win9x users on the planet.

So far as "if I keep 3rd party software ... off ", unless it's produced by Microsoft or your computer manufacturer, it's ALL third-party software. In my experience, many of the freeware and shareware programs available are just as polished as, but far better supported than, those from large commercial software producers.

Jim

 

Heck man I have had just as many problems with Software produced by MS than I have with others.

The main thing to keeping 98 as error free as possible is to use software, hardware and drivers in COMBINATIONS that work. Not what is supposed to work but what does work.

Maybe this machine runs as good as it does because it was discussed by myself and Prof Techs and used the better COMBINATION of items ( both old and new ) so that it would work better.

Maybe it is because I am not always trying this that or the other thing.

But no matter what the reason I do not see ( at this time ) how anything could be more stable.

When I mention 3rd party software I am mostly referring to Memory Managers, Regisrty Cleaners, Download Accelerators Internet Boosters and such. I have not found Win98 to need such stuff.

MY worst proplem causer of all times was ISP software. Once and only once did that happen.

And I also keep what loads at startup to the necessities and nothing else. As that is where I found most of the problems were caused from. If it loads and creates no problems it stays. If it loads and creates a problem it don't stay.

And if you think it was easy getting all three machines working with no errors etc. No way.

And as far as being LUCKY You are SSOOOOO right

Also two machines have had the best test available run on them the last few days. Kids 5 to 9 years old. and as many as three at once. Just one lock up that in a way I caused by not telling them to run program B b4 A. But that IS NOT an OS problem. Strictky OPERATOR messup. The resaon being the Program A does not clean up after it self and apparently leaves some incompatable files loaded.

And one last thing that applys lately is keeping the whole works COOL. Monday and Tuesday I had to shut it down for a couple of hours at a time.

BillyBob

 

Transition

I really appreciate the views being shared by everyone, but one part of my original concern seems to have been missed.

How easy / hard is it to move most programs to XP from 98SE. Do most have to be reloaded (which for many means going back over varying lengths of time to restore all the upgrades / patches)?

I have Norton's Clean Sweep which works fine at move programs from one system to another with like OSs, but does anyone know if this would work in my case?

 

What you are wanting to do is not like moving stuff from one HD to the other. That is as simple as rolling off a log. Or even getting the same OS from one HD to the other.

But in going from 98 to XP and a completely different system you would be making a more drastic change.

My first thought would be is CleanSweep Compatable with both OS ?

Next would be that most programs would be best ( or need ) to be re-installed in order for them to work properly. Because just moving the programs would not be moving any registry entrys that may be required.

There are very few stand alone programs any more.

You might be able to move the program and then re-install and that might preserve any data that is within the program folder.

You mentioned backups.

Wait for other to see what they have to say but, I personally would dismiss any and all ideas of using backups that were made in Win98 and using then in XP. The backup/restore programs might even be quite different ( or at least wrok differently ). I could be wrong here but I personally would not do it. I used one made with 98 in ME. That was not he best idea I ever had believe me.

So to sum it up as far as I am concerned with a slight bit of BAD experience thrown in. Two quite different OS would be involved. So I would say the better and safer idea would be to start from scratch and re-install. Just be sure that what your installing is compatable with XP.

Cal E

I must say Congratulations to you for a job very well done. You have done your homework. You have asked questions. And you have for sure gotten different thoughts Or points of view.

Now when others jump in here with maybe others ideas,you will have enough info to make the decision that suits you the best.

BillyBob

 

Hi Cal,

It seems that BillyBob and I agree on something, at least.

I wouldn't even think about trying to move installed programs from one OS platform to another.

When I spoke of data transfer in an earlier message, I was referring to documents, image files, etc. In other words, anything you have produced using your various programs, but not the programs themselves ... they need to be installed fresh.

So far as upgrades and patches are concerned, nearly every program I use has been upgraded at one time or another, but I can think of very few that have been upgraded by patch alone. A full, installable upgraded version has almost always been available, and that's the route you should take, even if it means going to the program's website and downloading the full version.

Regarding Clean Sweep, go straight to the horse's mouth ... what does Symantec's website have to say on the subject? If it's not clear, contact Symantec Tech Support via email; they can give you better answers than we can.

Despite the learning curve involved with XP, (especially if you don't like the new "Luna" GUI), you should find the transition to be a relatively easy one ... it is Windows, after all. Keep your Win98 computer up and running while you get comfortable with XP, just so you'll be able to stay up to date with your volunteer projects while doing so, and make the transition gradually. (Or, just do what I did, and jump in with both feet! )

In a nutshell, data can be moved. Installed programs should not be.

Jim

 

Keep your Win98 computer up and running while you get comfortable with XP, just so you'll be able to stay up to date with your volunteer projects while doing so, and make the transition gradually

It seems that JSS3rd and I agree on something, at least.

I knew we could get there

It is not always whether I agree or disagree. I sometimes knowlingly and delibeately post an opposing point of view. I have noitced that doing this has a tendency to bring out both the upside and the downside of changing OS. It also seems to make the original poster ask more questions that otherwise may not even be thought of. It may also bring out both good and bad experiences that have occured for us.

It also seems to bring out various ways of overcoming ( or even preventing ) some of the problems that may arise when going to a new and unfamiliar OS.

We both know that when dealing with any version of Windows what should happen and what does happen can be quite different.

We both know that what does or does not happen can be very machine ( hardware) and/or software dependent. Different combinations of Motherboards, BIOS & CPU on same can make things works differently right from the initial install ( the most important part ) on up. A bad install of any OS can lead to not so nice results.

That is where I think these dicussions ( even though they
sometimes appear to be arguements )

are GREAT.

BillyBob

 

Good news!

well... good news from THE E-LIST NEWS by Mr. Jim Eshelman:

A correspondent in Microsoft Customer Service wrote me yesterday that they’ve just been told that warranty support for Windows 98 Original Flavour and Windows 98 Second Edition has been extended for another year, until June 30, 2003.

See:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?id=fh;en-us;lifecycle

Go to that page, scroll to the bottom, and read the announcement: "...a change to Windows 98 No-Charge Support, which will conclude on 6/30/03." Click the W just above this and scroll down to Windows 98. You get the same information.

I'll stick with Win98SE up to that time...

 

Win98SE - Win2k - WinXP ??

One point overlooked in this thread is the ramifications of hardware modifications. With Win9X or Win2K this is not an issue. It is very much a problem with any version of WinXP!

Of the 6 units I recently built with WinXP (4 XPP, 2 XPH) two became unauthenticated and refused to start WinXP! Microsoft informed me that I had to provide my unique authentication number to reauthenticate by phone or do it on line.

The rub was: how the %&## do you get to the number or get on the internet if Win will not start and there is no way to boot and even look at the hard disk drive.

So, if you plan to change hardware much, I strongly recommend Win2K over WinXP. I am currently running one Win311, three Win98SE, one Win2kPro and one WinXP Pro on my network with both Novell and WinNT4 servers.

BTW: Win2K DOES support USB 1.1 and MS claims support for USB 2.0 is forthcomming. Just swapped MoBo to one with USB 2.0 on my Win2kPro - have not tested USB 2.0 yet.

Kent in Atlanta

 

I for one did not have any problems with reactivating my WinXp Pro on my new box.

I was running my XP license on a PIII 450 that I built myself and decided to build a P4. I only installed the sound card from my PIII to my P4...every other piece of hardware was brand new.

I was expecting to run into problems (new hardware) as I had activated my XP license with my PIII but to my "pleasant" surprise it activating on my new P4 without a hitch.

I have run Win95, Win98, Win98se, Win2k, and WinXP pro and my personal prefence (repeat my) in WinXP Pro. Every piece of software that I own installed without a hitch (some of the older pieces needed XP drivers for which I got ahead of time from their home pages).

Just my 2 cents...

 

XP, NT, 95, 98, SE, ME, Win311, Linuz or whatever are all EXACTLY the same in one respect.

There is no way that any of them may set up and/or work the same on every machine or be satifactory to EVERY user.

And the very sad part is that there is no way we will know until we try it on our machine.

Every cottin-pickin OS has it Upside and Downside. Each one may do something better ( or differently ) than the other.

Each one may do something that we do not need or like. ( that was ME in my case )

Each one may do something that the other did not. I think this is one of the major reason that we upgrade.

These are the things that should be brought out in these dicussions. Not whether one OS is better than the other. Because that may well depend on the individual machine AND THE USER. ( in my case it seems to be both )

When I had the two machines with the Cyrix 686 150 CPUs they were doing all that I wanted them too. But there did come a time when they reached their limit and would do no more. I wanted to do more so it became necessary to upgrade. And the ONLY reason for upgrading was Hardware restrictions not OS.

dobhar

You say you had no problems with software installing in XP. I can say the same about Win98 FE. However I can not say the same about SE & ME. ( on the same machine BTW. )

BillyBob

 

BillyBob:

Yeah...I can say I've had no problems whatsoever (just lucky I guess ). Like I mentioned I've loaded all my OS's (except ME...stayed away from that one... ) on the same box...

Home built:
- ASUS P2B MOBO
- Intel PIII 450 mhz CPU
- 512 MB RAM
- Nvidia GeForce2 MX Video

I've used the same hardware for all my installs.