1. You are viewing our forum as a guest. For full access please Register. WindowsBBS.com is completely free, paid for by advertisers and donations.

Problem with intermittent wi-fi connection

Discussion in 'Networking (Hardware & Software)' started by BOBBO, 2007/02/03.

  1. 2007/02/03
    BOBBO

    BOBBO Geek Member Thread Starter

    Joined:
    2002/01/07
    Messages:
    1,892
    Likes Received:
    19
    Downstains I have a desktop computer, a DSL modem and a Linksys 802.11g router, all connected by cables and have no probems with Internet connectivity. Upstairs in the kitchen is my wife's laptop, and that's where the problem appears. Sometimes the Internet connection is "Very Good," other times there isn't one. That's what confuses me, the connectivity is intermittent. When the laptop won't connect, I can move it into our bedroom, which is directly above my downstairs setup, and the laptop will then connect as "Excellent." When I move it back to the kitchen, sometimes the connection will stick but at other times it will die. Supposedly the hardware is all OK or the laptop would never connect, right?

    Two days ago I thought maybe the arrangement of components on my desk downstairs was the problem. The router was on the far side so that my computer and monitor were between it and the upstairs laptop. That evening I moved the router to the other side. Yesterday morning my wife was delighted with my genius. Her laptop got on-line quickly and stayed on. This morning, though, for 3 hours she couldn't get on-line. I moved the laptop into our bedroom and got on-line immediately. Back in the kitchen, still on-line. So what's with this intermittent business? And it's gotten noticably worse within the past couple weeks. So has my reputation around here.

    There is a microwave in the kitchen, but it hasn't been on during any of the problem times. We have 2 portable phones upstairs, but neither is the 2.4 type and neither was being used while the laptop was having connection trouble. There may be other people in the neighborhood whose systems could be causing some interference, but the laptop doesn't alert us to any such difficulty. I saw another post that mentioned changing channels. Is that something I should look into? Any ideas for a solution so my wife will have one less reason to question my intelligence?
     
  2. 2007/02/03
    TonyT

    TonyT SuperGeek Staff

    Joined:
    2002/01/18
    Messages:
    9,072
    Likes Received:
    400
    Things to try:
    (in no particular order of importance except for maybe #3)
    1. give your wlan a unique name. The default SSID for your wlan is Linksys, change it to s/g like bobbo-house.
    2. change the wlan channel to 11, or a channel that may consistantly result in connections.
    3. don't use 3rd party wifi connection software that comes with a wireless card, let Windows built in wifi client manage the connection.
    4. consider getting a better antenna for the wlan router. Linksys makes 7db antennas for your deveice easily obtained at compuse or bestbuy or other comp stores.
    5. consider getting a range expander, linksys makes those as well. Put it in the bedroom, which is probably closer to the kitchen than the router location.
    6 if all else fails get the wife a 100' cat5 cable, but multicolored so she goes "oooh...ahhh" !!!
     

  3. to hide this advert.

  4. 2007/02/04
    BOBBO

    BOBBO Geek Member Thread Starter

    Joined:
    2002/01/07
    Messages:
    1,892
    Likes Received:
    19
    TonyT: Thanks for replying.

    I probably could have better described my Linksys model as the WRT54GS, if that helps. I checked the Linksys users panel and saw several people having fairly similar problems. They were using the WRT54G model, though, not the model like mine with SpeedBooster, if that makes any difference. And they were having intermittent trouble with both their wired and wi-fi connectivity. Here it's just the laptop and wi-fi. There were also some recommendations about changing the MTU setting (I think downwards). According to a SiSoft Sandra scan, my Packet MTU is 1.5kB. Significant?

    OK, as to your ideas. Your #1, about changing the WLAN ID, I'm pretty sure I did that when I first set up the router, although not positive. Need to check, but how? Your #2, about changing channels. I've thought of doing that but have no idea how. Instructions? As for #3, I didn't get a 3d-party card, am using the card built into her Dell Inspiron. I'll wait until I've tried those ideas before I do #4 and #5. I've also considered doing a variation of #6. But instead of running a 100' length of CAT5 upstairs, I might get a shorter length, maybe 25', and just move the router farther away from my desk and closer to directly under her laptop. She'd be more impressed with the improvement in connectivity than she would be with the color of the cable, anyway.

    So how do I change channels? And how do I check my LAN ID? And is my Linksys router model vulnerable to the same problems those other people were having, or were their problems different enough that our situation shouldn't be compared to theirs?
     
  5. 2007/02/04
    ReggieB

    ReggieB Inactive Alumni

    Joined:
    2004/05/12
    Messages:
    2,786
    Likes Received:
    2
    Selecting the wireless channel is given on page 22 of the WRT54GS manual.

    There are a lot of things that can attenuate a wireless signal. Plants can do a pretty good job of blocking wireless. Wood is reasonably transparent (so wireless to a room above the access point is almost always good), brick is harder, stone can be harder still, and reinforced concrete can block it dead (the grid of steel that reinforces the concrete can act as a fairly effective shield to the wireless signal). It also doesn't go through people too well. It can be fun watching the signal drop in a class room as the kids come in and fill the room. So if you move the router, try to minimise the thickness of wall that the signal has to travel through.

    In your position, in addition to the excellent points Tony raised, I'd also look for electrical items giving out a lot of RF noise. You mention your microwave and phones. Fluorescent strip lights can give off a lot of RF noise - especially if the tube or starter are playing up.
     
  6. 2007/02/04
    TonyT

    TonyT SuperGeek Staff

    Joined:
    2002/01/18
    Messages:
    9,072
    Likes Received:
    400
    1 & 2: login to router control panel via web browser using this address: 192.168.1.1

    mtu is fine unless modem is dsl, in which case set it to 1492 in router control panel.

    dell comes with dell wireless software that loads when you turn on the comp. Disable it by removing the registry key at hklm/software/microsoft/windows/current version/run
    To find the name of the one to delete, go to start > programs > dell wireless > rt click the manager & select properties > find target
    ..that's the name of the program that loads via that registry key.
    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/networking/expert/bowman_02april08.mspx
     
  7. 2007/02/04
    visionof

    visionof Inactive

    Joined:
    2006/11/12
    Messages:
    778
    Likes Received:
    5
    Wi Fi Networking Blues

    1) Change the channel of the router from 6 ( default channel setting) to another channel - first choices are 1 or 11
    2) Make the router is in a high open spot not cluttered with objects around it.
    Not on the floor or under a metal desk.
    3) It could be the wireless drivers but not likely as a first step

    Later on you can try to find stray signals with a more sensitive scanning program called netstumbler

    http://www.netstumbler.com/downloads/

    often though you do not see the culprit signal but it makes the computer networking bounce between the ips from the two ( or more routers) so you have a signal but no consistent internet connection
    remember that many of the newest routers have the beacon setting turned off as a security measure in their default setting so you may not catch neighbour's wireless routers signals . These signals as well may be sporadic as if the isp is dsl it is set on default to " connect on demand "
    The biggest problem by far is neighbouring routers.
    It is amazing how far the signals can waft in out of nowhere.
    The record for wi fi ( with large c band antennas for reception) is 125 miles.
    This is an artificial controlled situation in the desert. No other signals in the 12 channels. Still they had to prove internet reception by message info and break wep codes .

    http://www.engadget.com/2005/07/31/unamplified-wifi-distance-record-set-at-125-miles/

    you might also want to try a network setup maintenance program called network magic

    http://www.networkmagic.com/nmlp/home-networking.php?src=google&kw=network magic


    The first step which cures most wi fi problems is to change the channel of the router.
     
  8. 2007/02/04
    visionof

    visionof Inactive

    Joined:
    2006/11/12
    Messages:
    778
    Likes Received:
    5
    example of a wi fi idiot

    Don't know if I shared this story before.
    I had the misfortune of helping out a best friend of a relative of mine.
    I got him a laptop .
    Told me he had a new dlink router.
    Kept badgering me that the laptop worked fine in the basement and the second floor but not in the kitchen.
    A person I later found out that came from an entirely diffirent culture.
    Former biker of low standing and repute.
    First rule is never to ever admit you are wrong as then you lose face and the others can knock you out.
    No matter how I tried to diagnose and say it a strange situation of diagnosis he would insist "No. No. It works in the basement . My wife can get messenger well in the bedroom on the second floor. It does not work in the kitchen ( on main floor). "
    It turned out that there were several setup issues:

    1) The D-link wireless router was located on the floor under a metal desk in a furnace room with full metal file cabinet, a heavy metal furnace and metal ventilation ducts further in the way
    2) D-Link router was set to channel 6 ( default setting)
    3) The signal he was receiving on the main floor was a neighbour's Linksys router also on channel 6 . It seems to me that this router was set to connect on demand to a dsl connection
    4) The bedroom upstairs was on the far side of the house and it would connect to another entirely seperate Linksys router ( also on default settings and channel 6)

    Luckily I am rid of this fellow. However he may be the smarter one as he was unpaid. I have been left out in the cold by my "successfull " relative.
    However it is amazing how fast he mangages to find my number and call me
    when it is in his self interest .

    As I said an entirely diffirent culture based on two beliefs

    1) theft is a way of life
    2) You can never admit you are wrong in any manner

    as they say: let this be a lesson to you
     
  9. 2007/02/04
    BOBBO

    BOBBO Geek Member Thread Starter

    Joined:
    2002/01/07
    Messages:
    1,892
    Likes Received:
    19
    Good to see so many people joining in and offering helpful advice.

    Perversely, my wife's laptop got on-line yesterday afternoon and stayed connected all day and evening. And it's connected so far today. Why it worked Friday but not yesterday morning and then it's behaved itself so far since then, I have no idea. Right now she's working on some e-mails, so I don't want to change any settings that would disconnect her.

    Some information about this house, since some of your ideas dealt with that. It's 75 years old, of wood frame construction, with lath and plaster interior walls. No metal appliances are in the path between the router and the laptop. My desk is made of wood, and so is the table the laptop is on.

    We sometimes take the laptop with us when we go to our vacation home (in a condominium complex) near Lake Tahoe. When we bootup there, we often see a notice about signals coming from 3 or 4 other sources, so the laptop is configured to sense that. And it doesn't notify us of anything here at home. Same ISP both places, with DSL at both places, too.

    I don't seem to have a copy of the Linksys manual, just a setup leaflet. I did check your link to the on-line manual. Haven't yet made any adjustments. Yesterday I ran a speed test of my DSL service here, mostly to see if the results showed a recent deterioration in signal that might explain the laptop's disconnects. The download and upload speeds were 5122/648 Kbps, much like tests in the past.

    When I go about changing the router's channel, is that a "hot" change, while on-line, or will I have to get off-line and do one or more restarts?
     
  10. 2007/02/04
    TonyT

    TonyT SuperGeek Staff

    Joined:
    2002/01/18
    Messages:
    9,072
    Likes Received:
    400
    Your speeds are good for dsl!
    When changing the channel, the adapter will auto adjust, no reboot needed.

    Plaster walls are the likely culprit, esp if have metal lathing! Be glad they used steel lathing. If copper were used you'd have no connection at all upstairs! (fyi, copper was never used for lathing because of cost and corrosion factors)

    Best bet is to get a range expander in the bedroom for that Linksys:
    range expander
    $99.99 comp usa
    plug it in, push a button and you're good to go.
     
    Last edited: 2007/02/04
  11. 2007/02/04
    geta2j

    geta2j Inactive

    Joined:
    2005/02/25
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    Will this kind of hardware help me extend the range of my netgear rangemax MIMO wireless router? I have a sprawled out single level home and router is in one end of the house and my wife's daycare is in the OTHER end of the house. She wants to print wirelessly from our Desktop Dell to our new Dell wireless network printer in the daycare or even from her new Dell inspiron notebook. Wireless network in Daycare is named "linksys" our home network is named "NETGEAR "
    yes it is in ALL CAPS so I could recognise it on her new laptop.
     
  12. 2007/02/04
    visionof

    visionof Inactive

    Joined:
    2006/11/12
    Messages:
    778
    Likes Received:
    5
    Range Expander /Extender

    The results from range expander/extenders are often not too good.
    The devices have to be matched to the router ( same manufacturer it is not a generic choice).
    An idea is to build a simple focusing antenna behind the router.
     
  13. 2007/02/05
    TonyT

    TonyT SuperGeek Staff

    Joined:
    2002/01/18
    Messages:
    9,072
    Likes Received:
    400
    All the range expanders I have setup worked just file.
    Yes, it is probably best to use matching brands, but is not necessary.
    For larger expansion, is best to wire another access point into the network and config it as a point to point bridge.

    Homemade focusing antennas, as well as manufactured ones won't assist that much because the transmit power is regulated by the router-access point firmware. So, to make such an antenna worthwhile, one needs 3rd party firmware that can increase the transmit power, legal range of course! This is essentialy what manufactured "man in the middle" range expanders do, they grab the existing signal and rebroadcast it newly from that point.
     
    Last edited: 2007/02/05
  14. 2007/02/05
    geta2j

    geta2j Inactive

    Joined:
    2005/02/25
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks Tony,
    So, in my case hard wiring a Cat5 cable to the other end of the house and plugging in another Wireless router would work.
    I had a Netgear wireless G router and when my wife decided she wanted to use a laptop in the daycare but since our network does not extend out there I purchased a netgear Rangemax wireless G router and it did not help. Can I use my old Netgear plugged into the far end of a cat5 cable originating at the Netgear rangemax that I just installed?
     
  15. 2007/02/05
    TonyT

    TonyT SuperGeek Staff

    Joined:
    2002/01/18
    Messages:
    9,072
    Likes Received:
    400
    The best way to do it:
    wifi router > wireless wifi range expander
    or
    wifi router > wire > access point w/ no router configured as point to point bridge.

    It is more troublesome to use a second wifi router because you will have to connect to the second wifi router using a wire to configure it, disable the router functions, disable dhcp, etc. It's much easier and easier to t-shoot if use just a range expander or an access point w/ no router.

    To use the hardware you already have do this:
    rangemax wireless G router #1 > wire > wireless G router #2

    1. connect computer to #2 using a cat5 to any lan port
    1a. access router control page http://192.168.0.1
    2. disable dhcp
    3. disable any firewall
    4. assign it a static ip 192.168.0.2 (if router #1 = 192.168.0.1)
    5. connect device to router #1 using cat 5 (lan port router on #1 to lan port on router #2, do NOT use the WAN port on router #2.)
     
    Last edited: 2007/02/05
  16. 2007/02/05
    geta2j

    geta2j Inactive

    Joined:
    2005/02/25
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks Tony!!
    I just ordered a Netgear range extender. I will try to return the Rangemax that I just bought.

    Sorry for the Hijacked thread Bobbo. :rolleyes:
     
  17. 2007/02/05
    BOBBO

    BOBBO Geek Member Thread Starter

    Joined:
    2002/01/07
    Messages:
    1,892
    Likes Received:
    19
    I've been out of the house much of the last 2 days and haven't done much about the connectivity problem. My wife says her laptop was on-line all afternoon and evening yesterday, and it's worked OK again today, although it took about 20 minutes to make the connection this morning.

    A few minutes ago I tried the 192.168.1.1 Linksys connection but apparently they didn't keep my registration file when I first set up the router, so I re-registered. They still don't recognize me, so maybe after an hour or so the registration dept. will get through to the support dept. and I can proceed. I'd like to check what channel this router is set on now, and maybe check the MTU setting, too. Is 1.5kB just a rounding off of the recommended 1492?

    I'm curious about the basics behind our problem here. I gather that the signal strength my wife's laptop receives is determined by the laptop itself and its peripherals, by obstructions between the laptop and the router, by the settings in the router, and by the DSL signal arriving over our phone line. Since most of those are unchanging, is the only variable the ISP's DSL signal? If I don't move any of the components here, and we don't use the microwave oven or any portable phones, what's changing so that the wi-fi connection is sometimes strong enough and other times it isn't? Remember that my desktop computer's wired connection is almost always OK and that moving my wife's laptop from the kitchen to our bedroom will almost always result in a good connection. So why is the laptop's connection in the kitchen sometimes OK but at other times not? That would seem to be the key.

    geta2j: No problem.
     
  18. 2007/02/05
    TonyT

    TonyT SuperGeek Staff

    Joined:
    2002/01/18
    Messages:
    9,072
    Likes Received:
    400
    The dsl signal has nothing to do with the issue here.
    The wifi signal is broadcasted by the wireless router. That signal is NOT the dsl signal from the phone wire, it is a signal created by the wireless card inside the router. This wifi signal has a finite range and strength. The maximum power of a wifi signal is regulated by firmware (code) that the router operating system uses. (yes, a router has it's own operating system embedded in it on a chip) The broadcast signal must be below a certain power level per FCC regulations. Theoretically, you could fry an egg in your neighbors kitchen if your signal was boosted high enough and you had a modified antenna/dish!

    So...that wifi signal is broadcast 360 degrees from the wifi router antenna. It must pass through walls, furniture, the ceiling, etc. The ceiling is plaster or plaster board with a plaster coat. If not plaster board, then it is plaster coat over top of brown coat (horse hair, fibers, sand, cement) and beneath that wooden or metal lathing, ceiling joists, sub-floor, floor, upstairs wall and obstructions. The farther away, the more obstructions. Not to mention all the other wireless waves in the air anywhere at any given time from tv broadcasts, radio broadcasts, cell phones, local signals from microwave ovens, phones, etc. (put on yout tinfoil hat now!) That's a lot of potential interference!

    Upstairs is the wife's laptop. It has a wireless card that can transmit (as when requesting a web page or sending email) and it can also listen (as when receiving web content or messages). It too has finite range and strength, but if the signal broadcast by the wifi router is weakened then modifying the laptops wifi card strengh will not matter one iota. Thus you must physically move the laptop closer to the wifi router or to a spot where the signal from the wifi router can reach it. The signal we are talking about here is a signal that must be maintained between the wifi router and the laptop, a network connection. There is regular communication between these 2 going on that maintains a connection.

    There are many variables at work here, 90% of them are controllled by the wifi router. The signal from the wifi router is not constant as far as clarity and strength goes. The quality of the hardware also is a variable here. Some wifi routers and wifi cards are better than others, none will perform up to peak in an environment that has thick walls, plaster with lathing, interference, to name a few reasons. Thus the need sometimes for boosters, range expanders, etc.

    I hope that helps you understand the issue a bit better.

    Now, what is this business re registration so as to be able to access the wifi router? There is no registration required. Just open Internet Explorer, type 192.168.1.1 in the address bar, enter no username (don't type there) and enter your password. (the default linksys password is "admin ", no quotes, all lower case.
     
    Last edited: 2007/02/05
  19. 2007/02/05
    BOBBO

    BOBBO Geek Member Thread Starter

    Joined:
    2002/01/07
    Messages:
    1,892
    Likes Received:
    19
    It's been an interesting evening. That registration business didn't seem right to me, so I went through several steps at the Linksys Web site, none of which seemed to open the door to my router settings. Eventually I got the impression that I needed to clear up that problem by pressing the Reset button on the router for 30 seconds. That erases all the settings in the router and resets them to the defaults. It did that, alright. It also killed my Internet connection. My ISP tech support said I needed to have Linksys walk me through a new setup. Linksys had me on hold for 30 minutes, then a chap went through a huge long operation with me that got me back on-line, got my password changed, got me switched to channel 11, got my MTU changed to 1492 and got me an even newer firmware upgrade than the one I'd downloaded earlier today. He thought all that should make a definite difference. Now we wait to see how well the laptop connects tomorrow and how well the connection holds. I'll get back to report the results so everyone can learn from this.

    Thanks for all the help and information and for your patience as well.
     
  20. 2007/02/06
    TonyT

    TonyT SuperGeek Staff

    Joined:
    2002/01/18
    Messages:
    9,072
    Likes Received:
    400
    well done!
    tip:
    keep a copy of these on paper for future use:
    router password
    dsl account username
    dsl account password

    Plan on at least once/twice a year having to reset the router anyway. They are not perfect devices. Power surges, power outages, etc can play havoc with them and sometimes they just stop working, in which case you will need to use that reset button again.
     
  21. 2007/02/07
    BOBBO

    BOBBO Geek Member Thread Starter

    Joined:
    2002/01/07
    Messages:
    1,892
    Likes Received:
    19
    TonyT: Your tips are excellent advice. So excellent, in fact, that I already did them the evening before you posted them. :)

    Follow-up report: It's been 2 days now and all has gone well. My wife's laptop connects within seconds of booting up. The connection is always "Excellent" now rather than the former "Very Good." And no more disconnects.

    Thanks to some top-notch assistance, the connectivity problem seems to have gotten fixed and the whole laptop situation is noticably better now than it had ever been before. Even my wife is pleased.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.