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Is there a way to mask an IP from a router or routers that is safe?

Discussion in 'Networking (Hardware & Software)' started by Dussman, 2007/01/16.

  1. 2007/01/16
    Dussman

    Dussman Inactive Thread Starter

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    If I understand the tip of the iceberg, using a msking software will effectivly mask an ip using a direct connection to the internet form your computer , but that the software will not mask the router or routers that your system goes through after that . So my question would be ----If I have a router from my service provider , than in turn goes through , say , a vonage router , is there a way to mask the EOL ( End of Line ) router to hide the ip of that router?
    I have done alot of reading , but obviously not in the right places , so here I am asking the Gods of the web to point me in the right direstion . Any help or advice would be greatly appreaciated !!!!:cool:
     
    Dussman,
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  2. 2007/01/17
    TonyT

    TonyT SuperGeek Staff

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    If the second router has a static local ip then the first router is already masking it because local ips are not routable on the wan. example:
    modem w/ isp ip: 123.123.123.123
    router static lan ip: 192.168.1.1
    vonage router static ip: 192.168.1.2
    comp dynamic ip: 192.168.1.100
     
    TonyT,
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  4. 2007/01/17
    ReggieB

    ReggieB Inactive Alumni

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    Just to add to Tony's response:

    A local (or private) IP is an address within one of these ranges:

    192.168.0.0 to 192.168.255.255,
    10.0.0.0 to 10.255.255.255, and
    172.16.0.0 to 172.31.255.255
     
    ReggieB,
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  5. 2007/01/17
    Dussman

    Dussman Inactive Thread Starter

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    I'm glad this is not a snake

    :) OK ---so like I said ---Glad this is not a snake because if it were ---it would bite me I'm sure , but I'm still missing this or maybe I did not convey the question right .
    I now understand that the second router : Being my Vonage router ---it's Ip is masked by the first router : Which would be my Service providers Router , which by the way is a wireless router mounted on the outside of my home .
    So ---------#1. If I were wanting to mask that routers ip, would I be able to by using the ipconfig command in the dos window and then entering the routers configuration manager ?
    #2. If that is possible, is there a software to aid in this setup , or are there some manual settings that I can apply to accomplish what I am wanting to do ?
    ( NOTE: ) If the previouse replies were ment to tell me what I just asked ---hence the snake biting me because I'm not catching all of it :eek:
    I do appreciate any and all attemps to clear this up for me but I sometimes get tunnel vision in searching for an answer . I do appologize for anyone having to spell things out for me .
     
    Last edited: 2007/01/17
    Dussman,
    #4
  6. 2007/01/17
    ReggieB

    ReggieB Inactive Alumni

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    It depends how the Vonage unit works.

    Looking at a guide on the UK Vonage site, it doesn't mention port forwarding, so therefore I would presume the Vonage system calls out to a central system on the internet and registers its presence there. In which case you can sit behind a normal NAT router without having to tweak anything.

    I think this is what you already have. The IP address of the Vonage unit is likely to be in one of the ranges I mentioned in my earlier post, and this is being masked by your existing external router. As TonyT says, this means you are already masked.

    However, if incoming Vonage calls require internet system to locate you on the internet, you'll need an external address and probably need to set up port forwarding. If this is the case, you'll probably find you can't make any calls because the system won't work at the moment.

    So in summary
    If your Vonage system has an IP address in the private address space (typically starting 192.168.) and you can make and receive calls, you don't need to do anything. The IP address of the unit is already being masked by your external router.

    If you are unable to get the unit to work, or you have an IP address that is not within one of the ranges I mentioned in my earlier post, you will have to do some configuring to hide (or reduce it's vulnerability) the unit. If this is the case, it would probably help us if we knew the make and model of Vonage router.
     
    ReggieB,
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  7. 2007/01/17
    Dussman

    Dussman Inactive Thread Starter

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    I still think I have not conveyed my question correctly

    OK ,so far I DO understand what you have said , but let me re phrase my mission . The IP that does show up whenever and wherever I go -----that is the one that I DO WANT TO MASK! I have had several attemps on my system and have through some process of ellimination , come up with the fact that I need to mask my IP. This being the one that is visable to anyone that actually ties to the last router of my network to me . From what I have been told ---even if my LAN ip ,and my vonage ip addresses are masked , if someone can see the ip of the last router in line that they can still get throught to me . I guess what I am wanting is to be hidden while surfing . Is this possible ?:confused:
     
    Dussman,
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  8. 2007/01/18
    ReggieB

    ReggieB Inactive Alumni

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    No. When you send out a data packet, it needs to contain the source IP address so that the node receiving the packet can send back a reply. With NAT, the source IP address is that of your NAT router.

    The alternative would be to broadcast everything and if the internet worked that way, it would grind to a halt pretty quickly.

    You perhaps can reduce the "risk" by using a dynamic IP assigned by your ISP (in fact this is the default connection type for most home users) rather than a static IP. But this relies on defence by obscurity - which is no real defence. As soon as you start sending requests out (as you do when you browse the internet) the new IP is out there.

    Therefore, the best solution is to make sure you have a decent firewall set up. That is a NAT router as an absolute minimum. I'd recommend using personal firewalls on a small network as well as a NAT router. For business and networks bigger than SOHO, the best solution in my opinion is a dedicated hardware firewall (or close second a router that does stateful packet inspection).
     
    ReggieB,
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  9. 2007/01/18
    Dussman

    Dussman Inactive Thread Starter

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    AHHHHHHH Question answered !!!

    :D Thankyou very much . I have been svratching my head and several other oarts trying to figure this out and all at once , its as clear as the big blue sky ! I have been told that Black Ice is a good firewall , so I will check it out , and see what happens . Thanks again !!!!
     
    Dussman,
    #8
  10. 2007/01/18
    ReggieB

    ReggieB Inactive Alumni

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    ReggieB,
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  11. 2007/01/18
    TonyT

    TonyT SuperGeek Staff

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    For all intents & purposes your compueters & the vonage router are masked at all times because local ip addresses (see ranges above) are not routable outside of the local network. example;
    comp1 has a lan ip address of 192.168.1.100. That ip address is sent w/ every packet, whether using a browser, email client or any other application that uses the Internet. But...the router handles WHO 192.168.1.100 really is, and the packets that comp1 sends go through the router & the router takes over as "the sender ". And the sent packets leaving the router will contain the ip address that is asigned by your isp, your wan address. This address MUST always be used so the target computer knows who to reply to in the form of acknowledgements and to send back the requested data. The data arrives back at the router, it is sent to the wan ip address contained in the packets that were sent out. The router then knows to forward the data to comp1, the originator of the request.

    The wan ip address is contained in every outbound packet, thus you can go to whatsmyip.com and view your wan ip address.

    The ONLY legal way around this is to use a proxy server. It works the same as above but after the packets leave your lan they go to a proxy server and from there to the destination. Thus the packets leaving the proxy server contain the proxy server wan ip address. The destination sends back to you via the proxy server. This is really just one more unnecessary stop in the route. Proxys have pluspoints & outpoints, but for the most part are unnecessary.

    In linux, and even in windows but more difficult, one can spoof the ip addresses by using fake ones and software that handles the spoofing and translations, but there's no legal need to use such a setup except for net engineers testing the security of a network or network applications. Spoofing is generally used in situations where the sender is not requesting data but is only interested in sending out data with the intention of breaking something, i.e crashing a remote computer, creating a "hole" in a remote comp that can be entered later, etc.
     
    Last edited: 2007/01/18
    TonyT,
    #10
  12. 2007/01/18
    Dussman

    Dussman Inactive Thread Starter

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    I recommend That site to anyone

    That was incredable . The amount of info and handy little apps and fixes that are on that page . I recommend that anyone that (thinks) that their puter is safe and secure to check out the link in the above post or copy and paste this one if the link itself does not work https://www.grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2. In just a very short time I learned so much and tested my computer ports for attacks . You will definantly find out how good your firewall is and just how deep the wabbit hole goes !!!It was awsome !!!! thanks dude !!!
     
    Last edited: 2007/01/18
    Dussman,
    #11

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