Possible over heat

Hi everyone, i recently posted about random BSOD but have since had a small revelation. is there a built in monitor to tell me the system temp and the temp my Graphics card and hard drive are running. i think my problems are heat related as all my error messages driver or otherwise occur when running things like DVDs virus checks downlaods and music playing. i think that it is pushing the temp up and causing the crash.

Does windows have built in tools or is there a recommended download. if anyone is logged on at the moment i would really appreciatte some advice.

(sorry if the spelling is poor i have been working on the pc for a few hours and getting a little wweary)

 

Motherboard Monitor from here: http://mbm.livewiredev.com/ might be what you are looking for.

 

over heat follow up

here is a log from MBM. i am struggling to understand it sorry. i am monitoring everything that is listed. could some one have a look over the readings and if there is enough info there give me an opinion on the data.

thanks a lot evryone. hopefully i can get this all sorted soon.

+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Total number of readouts: 105 CPU Speed: 3209 MHz |
|Running from: 21/07/2006 20:32:13 until: 21/07/2006 20:45:38 |
+-----------------------------+----------+----------+----------+----------+
|Sensor | Current | Low | High | Average |
+-----------------------------+----------+----------+----------+----------+
|Sensor 1 | 75° C | 49° C | 76° C | 45° C |
|Sensor 2 | 44° C | 44° C | 44° C | 24° C |
|Sensor 3 | 2° C | 1° C | 2° C | 1° C |
|Core 0 | 1.24 V | 1.19 V | 1.28 V | 1.25 V |
|Core 1 | 2.66 V | 2.66 V | 2.66 V | 2.66 V |
|+3.3 | 3.36 V | 3.34 V | 3.38 V | 3.36 V |
|+5.00 | 5.18 V | 5.18 V | 5.21 V | 5.18 V |
|+12.00 | 12.01 V | 11.88 V | 12.07 V | 12.01 V |
|-12.00 | -12.38 V | -12.43 V | -12.38 V | -12.38 V |
|-5.00 | 0.00 V | 0.00 V | 0.00 V | 0.00 V |
|Fan 1 | 4066 RPM | 4066 RPM | 4115 RPM | 1280 RPM |
|Fan 2 | 0 RPM | 0 RPM | 0 RPM | 0 RPM |
|Fan 3 | 0 RPM | 0 RPM | 0 RPM | 0 RPM |
+-----------------------------+----------+----------+----------+----------+

 

can you possibly post some system specs?? Like Cpu, Video card memory?? Are you over clocked or running at Stock???? This would help to possibly make a better determination as to why your having heat problems. When people over clock thier systems they usually invest in extreme cooling like water cooling as heat is a quick killer of componants!! The reason I ask is that I see your CPU is running at 3209 MHz.

FIREDANCER

 

If Sensor -> Current = 75*C is right then that's high (Average temps seem to be ??...strange )

Clean the dust out of your case (do a search for "clean" and "dust" in this forum).
Check all the fans are spinning freely.
Make sure cables are not impeding the airflow.

If you have added a lot of hardware, are there enough fans (blowing air in a continuous stream through the case and not working against each other)?

If all other areas are covered, the thermal compound between the heatsink and CPU may not conducting the heat. Do a search of this forum for "thermal ".

Matt

 

Over heat follow up

Hi, thanks for all the ideas. i will get on to that today. in the mean time my system spec is as follows.

Advent T9003
Intel PENT 4 CPU 3.20GHZ - 3.21GHz (as written on the system info, on the device manager when i expand the processors device it list pentium 4 3.20 twice -dont know if this is relevant - more info is better than none)
512mb or ram (x1 Samsung Module)
x2 Saphire radeon 9250 graph cards (i might be being stupid here but it says there are 2 but i can only see 1 physical card)
the system was prebuilt and came ready from a dixons supplier, as far as overclocking goes i have no need for it so if this machine is overclocked it was set like that. i willsearch the forum to get some ideas for how to tell and what to do about it.
x2 lite-on cd drives (one DVD-ROM THE OTHER DVDRW)

sorry that might all look a bit of a mess. let me sum up at little neater

Win xp home edition service pack 2
Processor Description Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.20GHz, 3207MHz
Total Memory 512MB
Total Hard Drive 230GB
BIOS Version AWARD - 42302e31 Phoenix - AwardBIOS v6.0PG Phoenix - AwardBIOS v6.00PG oN661FX-M7 Ver:1.0b 11/25/2004

Processor Number 1 + 2
Name Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.20GHz
Short Name P4
Speed [Estimated] 3207MHz
Speed [Registry] 3207MHz
Processor Type OEM Primary
Manufacturer Intel(R) Corporation

Norton Antivirus installed (never been able to run a complete scan with any software though

Aver go tv tuner card (runs hot)
7 usb ports
Meadia card reader (camera cards that sort of thing)
standard floppy
x2 Saphire Radeon Graphics cards

the whole PC was recently taken back to factory settings due to the last repetitive BSOD i could take. this was done via pc support. although it took a couple of goes to do correctly. also i have gone thru device manager and updated all drivers that needed it.

if fire dancer is reading can you tell me what concerns you about the cpu speed. i gather form your post that it seems the system is overclocked but i am still so new to all this that i cant get my head around what is should be and why it isnt.

thanks all. if there is anything else you need to know please do a quick post with the specifics your looking for and i will put it on as soon as i am able.

Mandy

 

i just used Everest from matts sig to get some more informative data. hope this makes sense.

[ EVEREST Home Edition (c) 2003-2005 Lavalys, Inc. ]------------------------------------------------------------

Version EVEREST v2.20.405


--------[ Overclock ]---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CPU Properties:
CPU Type Intel Pentium 4 540
CPU Alias Prescott
CPU Stepping E0
Engineering Sample No
CPUID CPU Name Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.20GHz
CPUID Revision 00000F41h

CPU Speed:
CPU Clock 3205.57 MHz (original: 3200 MHz)
CPU Multiplier 16.0x
CPU FSB 200.35 MHz (original: 200 MHz)
Memory Bus 200.35 MHz

CPU Cache:
L1 Trace Cache 12K Instructions
L1 Data Cache 16 KB
L2 Cache 1 MB (On-Die, ECC, ATC, Full-Speed)

Motherboard Properties:
Motherboard ID 11/25/2004-SiS-661-6A7I4E1AC-00
Motherboard Name ECS 661FX-M7 (3 PCI, 1 AGP, 2 DDR DIMM, Audio, Video, LAN)

Chipset Properties:
Motherboard Chipset SiS 661FX
Memory Timings 3-3-3-9 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)

SPD Memory Modules:
DIMM1: Samsung M3 68L6423ETM-CCC 512 MB PC3200 DDR SDRAM (3.0-3-3-8 @ 200 MHz) (2.5-3-3-7 @ 166 MHz)

BIOS Properties:
System BIOS Date 11/25/04
Video BIOS Date 04/07/06
Award BIOS Type Phoenix - AwardBIOS v6.00PG
Award BIOS Message 661FX-M7 Ver:1.0b 11/25/2004
DMI BIOS Version 6.00 PG

Graphics Processor Properties:
Video Adapter Sapphire Radeon 9250
GPU Code Name RV280 (AGP 8x 1002 / 5960, Rev 01)
GPU Clock 241 MHz (original: 240 MHz)
Memory Clock 200 MHz (original: 200 MHz)


--------[ Sensor ]------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sensor Properties:
Sensor Type ITE IT8712F (ISA 290h)

Temperatures:
Motherboard 40 °C (104 °F)
CPU 21 °C (70 °F)
Aux 75 °C (167 °F)
Maxtor 6Y250M0 42 °C (108 °F)

Cooling Fans:
CPU 4167 RPM

Voltage Values:
CPU Core 1.23 V
+2.5 V 2.66 V
+3.3 V 3.36 V
+5 V 5.13 V
+12 V 11.90 V
+5 V Standby 4.97 V
Debug Info F 51 FF FF
Debug Info T 75 40 21
Debug Info V 4D A6 D2 BF BA D9 C7 (47)

 

Those Everest figures seem normal. You may have to run some of the programs and check the temperatures again.

I am working on the assumption that the Auxillary sensor is not connected and this was Sensor 1 for Belarc (although Belarc reported a high, low and average for Sensor 1). I think this is a motherboard that makes it hard for these types of utilities to read accurately.

You could go to the Startup/BIOS settings and check the readouts there (it is usually by tapping the F1 or Delete keys a few seconds after the computer starts). My Pheonix BIOS calls it H/W Monitor (navagation instructions are at the bottom of the page). These will accurately identify which readout is which. Boot up into Windows check Belarc and Everest, run the program/s that cause the BSOD for a short time, then check Belarc and Everest again. If the CPU readout jumps say, more than 10*C I would be concerned.

In Task Manager (Ctrl+Alt+Del), check that when you close the programs you have been working on, the CPU usage drops back to 2-3%.

Let us know what you find or if you need more help with these.

Matt

 

Here’s the latest info. Obtained following a massive headache and a desire to submerge the thing in petrol and watch my problems burn whilst toasting Marshmallows over a crispy hard drive!

When I booted up I went into PC health status and recorded the following
CPU 49*C rising to 53*C over apprx 7 mins
System 32*C rising to 36*C over apprx 7 mins
Fan 4115 RPM

I then continued boot up and entered Task Manager before opening any programmes. I took the following readings during different tasks. I wrote down CPU usage and something called PF usage as well. I kept an eye using Everest and the results were basically the same, although the Aux temp that was running at 75 was only 45. I think this may represent the case temp. The hard drive is def not heating up that much and the CPU area seems fine. The most heat being generated is from the graphics card and the TV tuner card. The graphics card, after about 10/15 mins becomes the hottest running thing. It doesn’t have a built in fan and although there are places I can put a fan for power there is only room for smaller fans and there is nowhere I can safely fix it to allow Airflow anyway. Don’t know if any of this info is useful or if it tells a story.

On Start Up
PF 270
CPU usage Low = 0 High = 1

Running Power DVD
PF 271
CPU usage Low = 12 High = 100 (spiked throughout, before hitting and staying on 100)
Returned to 0/1 when closed

Running Anti virus
PF 289
CPU usage Low = 27 High = 100 (This spiked more than the DVD, again settled at 100)
Returned to 0/1 When closed (I stopped it before is BSOD me again on this occasion)

Using Windows Media player to stream on the internet
PF 269
CPU usage Low = 4 High = 13
Returned to 0/1 when closed

Thanks all

 

Both temperatures rose. This would suggest that you need a better airflow through the case. First check that the air intake vents are not blocked with dust. Check the air intakes at the (bottom) front of the case. If you have added/improved the hardware, you will probably need to add more cooling fans. There may be places to install additional fans at either the front or back of the case or both.

Check all the fans are spinning freely (including the power supply fan).

Look carefully under the CPU fan. Are the fins of the heatsink blocked? You should be able to remove the fan and clean them. *Be careful not to remove the heatsink from over the CPU*.

From my experience a Pentium would not be very stable at 53*C. Considering as well that this is in the PC Health Status and the system is running at idle, I think you do have a temperature problem.

"Be careful not to remove the heatsink from over the CPU ". If other areas of trying to reduce the CPU temperature do not seem to work then there will be a problem with the thermal compound between the CPU and the heatsink. Read the instructions for applying Arcticsilver5 here:
www.arcticsilver.com
You don't need Arcticsilver5, another brand would do, but for your first time of replacing the thermal compound, I would recommend it. You may need to remove and replace the compound until you get your technique "just right ".

So...find where the heat problem is originating. Things like checking the airflow and air temperature with your hand will help. See how the system runs if you leave the cover off the case and direct a desk fan into it.

Matt

 

Rereading, you do point out the temperature of the graphics card. If it does not have a fan then it should not run at exceptionally high temps. A reason why it may be running hot is the drivers. It may be being run by bad drivers...and this does not just include the graphics card drivers, but also the motherboard chipset drivers.

Find the recommended chipset drivers at their website (Everest probably even gives you the link). Your motherboard chipset is

Graphics Adapter is

Check at the Sapphire website for the drivers they recommend for your model.

Matt

 

Thanks for that Mattman, I will check the chipset and also check the fan. I have been searching the net for Airflow tips and setups so i will see what i can do there also.
i will post back in a couple of weeks with the results. Any and all suggestions are always Welcome from everyone.

thanks again, Mandy.

 

quick update, earlier than i thought.

I cleaned replaced the fan and even re did the thermal paste ( a couple of attempts got it right)

when i booted into PC health status the reading were similar to before, however when the operating system came up and went into everest it showed the CPU temp around 10-20*c and the other temps staying around 50*c. an improvment on previous results without a doubt.

i used the chipset details to get latest downloads. after a quick scan it came up with 4 updates. after installing them and rebooting i went to go back online and there was no active connection.
one of the updates was for the ethernet connection. i was about to reverse the updates and start again when i was BSOD . There were no other programmes running just open folders (my docs and network connections) i have to admit that i didnt let it reboot after the blue screen becuse i was less than enthusiastic . ill look at the error report tonight.

despite some very usefull suggestions since i first posted and beleive me they have been useful. i dont think i will be identify the problem specifically enough to fix it. i could almost see this thread outlasting the computer Thank you all so far and i will of course close the thread with a final outcome in the not too distant future.

 

Replacing the thermal compound is probably the hardest part of working inside a PC, so you now know how to replace a motherboard or CPU. Reducing the temperature will be beneficial whether it is the direct cause or not. You have done well.

Looking at the downloads for your motherboard, there are no specific chipset drivers apart from the (mini) IDE drivers and these are for the 661FX-M, not the 661FX-M Deluxe.
There are SiS VGA drivers listed. These are for the onboard SiS graphics. You do not want these installed while you are using the Sapphire Radeon (ATI) graphics card. I might expect that this is the reason for the high temperature of the graphics card. I think you need to remove every trace of the SiS graphics (VGA) drivers for the Radeon card to operate correctly. Look in Add/Remove Programs for anything listed for SiS graphics, uninstall it. I would also uninstall the Radeon drivers and install a new set. There will be listings for the ATI drivers and software in Add/Remove Programs as well, remove them all. When you reboot, if Windows Hardware Wizard asks for where to find the drivers, put the Sapphire disk in the CD drive. If Windows has any problems finding the drivers, click Cancel. Run the Sapphire (ATI) drivers/software program when you get to the desktop. If you are offered a choice of what to install, just try installing the ATI Control Panel alone.

I can't be certain, but from what you have said I think you will find the graphics drivers are the cause.

Matt
Edit: You should probably use this as well:

http://support.ati.com/ics/support/...ef109fff37cbb40aaf28&accountID=737&deptID=894

 

Hi everyone. its been a couple of days since my last post and i have an ounce of succes to impart.

I swapped out the 256mb Radeon9250 card and put in an NVIDIA RIVA TNT2/TNT2 Pro (32 MB) card instead. it is still running hot so i am going to have to run the catalyst romver and driver cleaner again, but i just completed my fisrt Virus scan since i dont know when . it is still too early to be too hopefull but i think that Mattmans last comments regarding the Graphics being the possible root of the problem has a ring of truth to it. i now however have the issue of a vastly reduced graphics card. i dont seem to notice much difference, would it be mostly game performance. to be honest most of the pc use is photo enhancment and movie creation.

i need to try and test the limit a bit more so i need to run a few things thatcaused the BSOD but the biggest one was the Virus scan and i have managed to make that work.

im thinking that the actual graphics card (the model that is) was the conflict. i tried to turn off the onboard graphics but i couldnt see a clear set of actions so i didnt mess with it. if any of this makes the problem clearer to anyone i would appreciate some help to join the dotes so to speak so i can choose what to do next.

thanks all. hopefully i can close this thread down soon.

 

That's one thing I wondered, was the onboard graphics still enabled? To check, just change the monitor connector over to the motherboard header, start up, but do not go to the Windows desktop (Windows will try to install the SiS drivers again and this is what you want to avoid). If there is no display on the motherboard header then it will be automatically disabled when you put in an add-in card. If both graphics adapters are enabled, you should disable the onboard adapter and remove any SiS drivers from Windows.

To disable the onboard graphics check through the BIOS settings section of the motherboard manual. I looked at the FAQs at ECS, but they did not cover it. Post back with a link your motherboard manual download if you would like me look at it. If the information is scant, one way you can disable the onboard graphics is to set the amount of RAM it shares to 0. I had better look at your motherboard manual before you try this though, there are a few similar settings.

Look in Add/Remove programs for any SiS graphics programs and remove them, same in Device Manager. I think you will need to complete remove any reference to the SiS graphics, then use the Catalyst Uninstaller (and I would suggest running it in Safe Mode). I suggest you do not use the driver cleaner...see mailman's thread:
http://www.windowsbbs.com/showthread.php?t=56338
Windows has the ATI Catalyst drivers on the Windows XP CD. ATI recommend that you use those unless you are having problems. You seem to be having problems, but I would at least try to install/reinstall the Win XP set first.

I installed an ATI 9600XT on Win XP. It ran, but I could see the drivers were not installed correctly. I removed the drivers in Safe Mode, then, on reboot the Windows H/w wizard asked for where to find the drivers. I put the drivers CD in the CD drive and presto, it worked great afterwards.

I hope your success is getting closer.
Matt

 

For Mattman

Here is the link to the manual for my motherboard as you asked.

http://www.ecs.com.tw/ECSWeb/Products/ProductsDetail.aspx?DetailID=663&MenuID=93&LanID=0

i checked it at work and it connected fine but if not i will post some more details once i am back at home.

i tried connecting my monitor up ro the only other part of the board i could, when i booted up it didnt turn on. i took this to mean the the onboard graphics arent active. that only leaves me with conflicting driver error i think.

i did get an 08e error message last night but it didnt actually BSOD me. all that happened was in the middle of surfing the pc logged me out to the account screen for me to log back in again. now thats new.