USB HD triggers activation demand

Hi All,
I have had a retail version of XP Home installed on the same computer for about three years, have re-installed a few times after hardware changes, like a new and larger HD, and a new graphics card, and all the necessary re-activations have been done with no problem.
Recently I re-formatted the master HD and re-installed XP from a CD with SP 2 slipstreamed, I had to re-activate and then downloaded all the required updates and patches.I did this because it was taking two to three minutes to boot.
The speed is back now, but three times since, after I have imaged partitions to an external USB HD I get the Microsoft warning panel "Since XP was last re-activated the hardware configuration of your computer has changed significantly, and you must re-activate within three days ". That is not the exact wording but the meaning is clear.
My question is - in all the updates that MS has published to XP Home, has one of them modified the activation procedure? This used to use a selection of the installed hardware to set up the computer ID, I think ten items were involved, but now the use of one external HD is triggering the re-activation.
Is there a way I can guard against this happening again? If I have to go to MS for an answer it will have to be a paid support action which would . . . . put your own conclusion!

Roger

I have just had a thought - maybe a repair installation would fix it. Any opinions?

 

just curious if u'r only creating images? or are u restoring them and then getting the prompt?

i can't see a way that creation would be a problem. restoring them? yep.

 

Hi Skeet,
I am just creating images as back-ups.
I switch the USB HD on, it appears in 'My Computer' as expected, I create the partition image, and verify. It seems now that if I leave the HD powered up when I shut my machine down, I must leave it powered up before the next re-boot or I will get the activation demand.
As the USB HD has its own power supply I have sometimes turned it off after the computer has shut down, and it seems that a reboot without the HD mounted and powered up is detected as a major hardware change. However, one HD addition or removal should not trigger a re-activation anyway.
I shall just have to - Switch the HD on - create the image - verify - switch the HD OFF before shutting the machine down.
There must be a way to cure this problem but getting the answer from Microsoft will not be easy!

Roger

 

Hi Roger,
Sorry I cant help you with your problem (yet!) but I just had to reactivate windows Xp Pro during a software problem which I thought may be the cause but I havent made any hardware changes...or so I thought.
I saw your thread about the external USB HD and thought this could explain it.
Did you find anything out about it ?
I use my external hd to back files up and disconnect before shutdown.
I will post if I find anything.
Jeff

 

i use powerquest's drive image 7 to do similar to ext usb/firewire drives. more than one as well. i've not seen this issue. i've also imaged to network drives w/o activation issues.

first q = is u'r swap file being allocated on the usb drive? if so, i'd force it off and back to a perm drive. ditto for any win folder structures like temp or wutemp etc. eg - don't allow win to use the ext as anything cept storage

i'd be curious as to properties on the drive as well. is there any update from the maker that may be needed? ditto on the chipset for usb but ... sp2 should cover that.

i'm just guessing that something lives on the usb drive that shouldn't. it sounds to me that win doesn't 'know' that this ext is a 'removeable' drive at all. i'd further try to 'eject' the disk prior to shutdown to see if it solves. eg - use the 'safely remove hardware' systray icon to bring the drive down before u shutdown/reboot.

 

Hi Skeet,

I use Acronis True Image, and have done for about three years now, and used the USB HD for about two, with no problems. The only data on the USB drive is imaged partitions, and once in the past I have restored an image of 'C' with no problem.

I am sure that it is something internal to Windows XP Home that has caused this problem and not the HD. Recent history:
About one month ago I changed the graphics card, installing a GeForce FX, and this did not trigger a re-activation. Last week I re-formatted 'C' because XP was getting too slow to boot, and as expected this called up an activation which took only seconds as normal. All went well for a couple of days, then on one boot I got the message about my computer hardware having changed significantly, and giving me three days to re-activate. This I had to do by telephone because the machine ID was refused on line.
Next day, the same thing again!! Again a telephone call to MS and somebody enquiring how many machines my copy of XP was installed on.
Nothing has changed on my machine between these occurrences, but I have used the external HD.
In the past I have added a HD, changed a HD, added or changed CD/DVD drives, added a bar of DDR RAM, and none of these changes have triggered a re-activation. That is why I wonder if the Hash/hardware formula has been modified by any recent MS update, and if there is any way that the hash ID can be preserved/copied for re-installation?
I intend to use the "Safely remove hardware" route, and make sure that the HD is powered down before I shut down Windows in future!

Roger

 

Hi Roger,

I also use usb external drives - 2 - and never had an issue of any kind.

One way maybe to clear up the issue that skeet raised about XP not knowing that the external drive is removable is to uninstall/re install the drive thru DM.

I intend to use the "Safely remove hardware" route, and make sure that the HD is powered down before I shut down Windows in future!
I as a matter of course do power down the drives after use - backups/drive imaging - and not powering down may be a problem as well.

Something else to try would be to move what's on the drive now, format it, getting rid of anything on it you don't know about, and then moving the data back addressing skeet's other point i'm just guessing that something lives on the usb drive that shouldn't

Regards - Charles

 

Hi All,

I think that we are losing track of the biggest worry in this thread.
Regardless of what data is used on the USB HD, or how it is plugged in or powered down, the change, addition, or removal of a single HD should not trigger a re-activation demand.

Quote from MS:
Common changes to hardware, such as upgrading a video card, adding a second hard disk, adding RAM, or upgrading a CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drive, do not require reactivation.

Specifically, MPA determines tolerance by using a point system. Ten hardware characteristics are used to create the hardware hash. Each characteristic is equal to one point, except the network card, which is equal to three points. Tolerance is determined by what has not changed, instead of what has changed. If the current hardware hash is compared to the original hardware hash, there have to be seven or more matching points for the two hardware hashes to be considered in tolerance. For example, if the network card, which is equal to three points, remains the same, only four additional points have to match. If the network card has been changed, a total of seven points have to match.
End quote:

I see that Stiggle has had one similar occurrence in another thread for no reason. As this has never happened to me before, with several hardware changes being made, something has obviously changed in the hash/ID procedure which takes place on boot, and recently. An update in SP2? Windows Defender? I suspect that something has been introduced by the Windows Validation procedure, and I shall be interested to see if any more similar problems arise.

Roger

 

Hi Roger,

Two points here:

It would be interesting to see if Stiggle has also gone thru a series of hardware changes and,

It seems now that if I leave the HD powered up when I shut my machine down, I must leave it powered up before the next re-boot or I will get the activation demand.
I do think it would help to go thru the troubleshooting exercise of uninstalling/re installing that drive and to format it and see if the system reacts in the same way.

Do you have any other drive or flash drive that you can plug in to see how the system would react?

Regards - Charles

 

Hi Charles,
There is no way, or need, to install or un-install the external HD. It operates like a USB key or flash drive, that is it does not appear in 'My computer' until it is either plugged in, or if already plugged in, until it is switched on. No driver is required.
My point is that the Microsoft activation rules say that no USB device, or for that matter any internal HD that may be added, should trigger a re-activation if the Windows hash system is working correctly.

The rules are here with all the FAQ's.

Regards,
Roger

 

Hi Roger,

Ok, I get your point

One quibble, the drive can be uninstalled - either the drive specifically thru "safely remove" or the USB hub.

Regards - Charles

 

Hi again,
As I said my hardware has stayed the same since building the computer last year.
I use the safe disconnect feature to remove the HD and I've probably used it about 10 times... ie the number of times you can change your hardware....coincidence ??
You would think it would be a common problem though, if this were the case, as there a lot of USB HD's out there.
Still baffled.
Jeff

 

Why do you use the "safe disconnect feature" instead of just powering down?

If you need to transport between systems as I've had to - powering down and then removing physically then plugging back in and powering up works quite well - the system never misses a beat.

Bring the USB drive up > right click > Properties > Hardware tab > highlight the USB drive in the list > under Device Properties > properties button > Policies tab:

Is optitmize for qiuck removal ticked?

Regards - Charles

 

Yes it is....... You learn something new every day.
I,m self taught, and only really know about stuff I have dealt with, so I generally learn A way to do something, often not the best way.
Theres probably a ton of stuff I do arse about face.
I doubt wether this has much to do with why the reactivation again.

Jeff

 

Hello stiggler,

The reason I asked what option is ticked is because the other option, write cacheing the drive, is used for synchronous backups for instance, and if used the drive has has to be disconnected using the safe disconnect feature if you want to remove the drive.

So once again I'm asking why you're using the safe disconnect feature if from what you write your use of the drive is for backups and nothing else - I maybe wrong here.

You write "I use the safe disconnect feature to remove the HD and I've probably used it about 10 times..." and when plugged back in or powered up again, in effect re installing the drive again - 10 times.

Now I don't know whether there is some limit to how many times this can be done - but it is suggestive

Regards - Charles