TB Font Change using Bullet or Indent

Hi Ramona:

I have my TB preferences set to compose messages in Times New Roman, Medium (Tools> Options> Composition> HTML Options). Those preferences come through fine when beginning a new message or a reply. When I use either the bullet or indent function within the message, however, the font changes to "vairiable width" in the small size. I change the font back by selecting font and size in the message format bar, but it would be nice to avoid that step being required repeatedly.

I haven't been able to find any reference to setting font preferences other than for the message in total, so I'm stumped. Any ideas would be appreciated!

Thanks,

 

Hi Bob,

I normally use Arial in messages because I think it looks cleaner (personal opinion ) but, when I switched to your settings, I got the same results you did.

I think you'll have to change your fonts in Tools > Options > Display > Fonts > Fonts to achieve what you want. To make it easy, set the "Proportional:" setting to Serif, and the other three to Times New Roman. For "Sans-serif:" and "Monospace:" you'll have to scroll all the way to the bottom of the drop-down menu, below the line, to find Times New Roman.

HTH.

 

Hi Jim:

I think you meant to go to Tools> Options> Fonts, right? I went there and changed the fonts as you suggested, but the results for bulletting and indenting were the same.

I thought those preferences were for page display purposes. Isn't the only place to specify font preferences for message composition found at Tools> Options> Composition> HTML Options (assuming you want to compose in HTML as I do)?

 

Hi Bob,

"I think you meant to go to Tools> Options> Fonts, right? I went there and changed the fonts as you suggested, but the results for bulletting and indenting were the same.

"I thought those preferences were for page display purposes. Isn't the only place to specify font preferences for message composition found at Tools> Options> Composition> HTML Options (assuming you want to compose in HTML as I do)? "​

Yes, I compose only in HTML, and you would think that the settings for composition would be governed only by the settings at Tools > Options > Composition > HTML Options but, as you've already discovered, and as I was able to confirm, that's not true.

First, let's make sure we're both using the same version of Tbird, as the Options sheet was changed somewhere along the line. I'm using 1.5, where the Options choices are displayed across the top of the window ... earlier versions had the choices displayed vertically on the left side of the window.

Second, I'm using the default theme, though I shouldn't think that this would make any difference.

I don't have a Tools > Options > Fonts choice, just the Tools > Options > Display > Fonts > Fonts choice I mentioned in my earlier post. Changing the settings there will affect your composition window fonts ... at least they did for me, in 1.5.

 

Jim:

You're right -- I've been using 1.0.7. I'll install 1.5 later today and let you know how the fionts behave from there. Thanks.

 

Hi Jim:

Sorry for the delay but a little golf got in the way.

I've now gone ahead and instralled TB 1.5. I went to Tools> Options> Display> Fonts> Fonts, set the proportional to serif and the others to Times New Roman. Next I went to Tool> Options> Composition> HTML Options, selected Times New Roman, clicked OK and existed the dialog.

Then I began to compose a test message. The default font appearing in the new message formatting bar was variable width rather than Times New Roman. I went back to HTML Options and the font displayed there was variable width. I changed this to Times New Roman several times, exited the dialog, Options entirely, and even TB entirely on different iterations, but each time I returned to HTML Options the font preference displayed was variable width.. I also tried selecting various fonts other than Times New Roman but the results were the same.

I then went back to the test message. Although the font named in the formatting bar was variable width, the composed text was displayed in Times New Roman. Using either either bullet or indent, however, produced the same results encountered earlier in TB 1.07: small. variable width font applied to the text.

So, I remain stumped as to why the font and size change when using bullet or indent. And now I have the new question of why the HTML Options selected are not retained but revert to variable width instead. Any suggestions will be appreciated, as always.

Thanks,

 

Hi Bob,

Not to worry ... I was away from the computer most of the day, anyway.

I just set my Options to the way you want yours, then typed an HTML test message using the various elements you've mentioned.

The attached screenshots of the Options settings were taken after the test message was written. As you can see, even though the subject appears in Arial, and the Font Choice window shows "Variable Width ", all text in the body of the message is in Times New Roman.

Truthfully, I have no idea why you're unable to make your settings stick, and the only thing I can suggest (please realize that I'm grasping at straws here ) is to close Tbird and move the Cache files in your profile to a temporary location. I have no idea what they're used for but it's possible that, if you're using the same profile that you did with 1.0.7, some information may have been left behind that's affecting your attempts to change settings.

Perhaps Ramona will have other suggestions. In any case, good luck!

EDIT: Sorry about the poor quality of the attached screenshots ... they look fine on my computer, so the degradation must have taken place during the upload to the BBS.

 

Bob,

We're having some ugly weather here, so just on for a few minutes. Look at this Thunderbird KB Article, and follow the instructions there, which are pretty much the same as you've already received: Font Settings in Thunderbird If still no joy:

Ensure you are using the default Theme
Delete all MSF files

It could be an extension which is interfering so start TB in:
Start | Programs | Mozilla Thunderbird | Mozilla Thunderbird (No extensions)
If the mail works correctly, then uninstall the extensions one by one, until you find the culprit

Still no joy:
Create a new Profile...

I've tried bullets and indent using Times New Roman as the default font and had no problems whatsoever with the font changing size. Yes, variable width shows in the font field...

 

Bob,

Here are my Font settings, which work perfectly in 1.5: Thunderbird Font Settings

In addition, here are a couple of Bug searches:

Search 1.
Search 2.

 

Ramona & Jim:

Thanks for your suggestions. I've tried each action defined by both of you but the net result (after each step and cumulatively) still produces these 2 results:

1. Using either bullets or indent, the font changes from Times New Roman-Medium to Variable Width-Small.

2. HTML Options (Tools> Options> Composition> HTML Options) does not retain the font selected and reverts to variable width. (i.e., If I select any font and click OK, when I return to HTML Options, variable width is displayed as the selected font. This issue did not exist with TB 1.07.)​

To summarize, here's what I've tried to date:

Jim's Suggestions:

1. Upgraded from TB 1.07 to 1.5.​

2. Verified the Default theme was selected​

3. Temporarily removed the cache file from the profile. Note here that the only cache file I could locate was for extensions and that's the one I removed.​

4. Was unable to read the screenshots (but thanks for the effort. And, I trust and accept your feedback on it's own anyway).​

Ramona's Suggestions

1. Reviewed the TB article but all of the potentials mentioned had been previously tried.​

2. Ensured the Default Theme was being used.​

3. Deleted all MSF files.​

4. Restarted TB with No Extensions​

5. Changed the font settings to those shown in your Thunderbird Font Settings. After that change:

Times New Roman was displayed in the formatting bar and applied to all text, including bullets and indented.

However, the bulleted and indented text continued to appear in smaller size. ​

6. Reviewed the Bug Searches but didn't find a directly pertinent issue.​

So, there we are. If I missed anything or you have other ideas, please let me know. Thanks for your time and suggestions.

 

Hi Bob,

Bear with us ... we'll get this figured out yet.

When you said you couldn't read my screenshots, did you click on the thumbnail to show them enlarged? If so, and you still couldn't read them, I've put them online elsewhere. The quality isn't great, but you should be able to read them without difficulty.

I think Ramona's as baffled as I am about your problem, even though she's the real expert. She uses Win98, while I use XP Pro, but we're both unable to duplicate your problem.

I'm going to suggest something that may seem rather draconian, but it's worked for me in the past when I've had Firefox/Thunderbird problems.

1. Download the free program RegSeeker, if you don't already have it. It doesn't require installation, so you can run it from wherever.

2. Uninstall Thunderbird 1.5, but keep your profile folder/files.

3. Open RegSeeker, click on "Find in registry..." and search the registry for all references to "Thunderbird" (no quotes, and it's not case-sensitive). When the search is complete, click on "Select All" at the bottom of the page. After making sure that "Backup before deletion" (lower left corner) is checked (that's the default setting), right-click anywhere in the window and delete all the entries. This step is reversible, so don't be too concerned.

4. Repeat step 3 for any nicknames you may have used for Thunderbird, such as "Tbird ". If you've used "TB ", be careful about your deletions, as anything else in the registry that contains the consecutive letters "tb" will also be listed.

5. Reinstall Thunderbird 1.5. Hopefully, the problem will have disappeared.​

 

Hi Jim:

Thanks for going to the trouble of posting the screenshots. I could see them and my settings were set just as you had configured them.

I followed your suggestions:

1. Downloaded RegSeeker.
2. Uninstalled Thunderbird.
3. User RegSeeker to remove registry references to Thunderbird.
4. Re-installed Thunderbird 1.5.​

Unfortunately, the results are the same . Thanks again for the try and I'm all ears if you or Ramona have any other ideas.

 

Bob,

In the salted folder, also delete this file: XUL.mfl
This should be part of your routine maiintenance.

Do this for me, please:
Open your prefs.js file in WordPad, and do a Search for "font "

Post your findings here, if you would.

EDIT:
Bob, also check this setting when in the Compose window:
Format | Size, is "medium" selected?

 

Ramona, Bob ...

I don't want to confuse things, but if the profile is located somewhere other than in the default location (as mine is), the path may not look like that. For example, instead of the default:

C:\Documents and Settings\user_name\Application Data\Thunderbird\Profiles\profilename\*.profilename\Cache

NOTE: There is no space beftween the m and the e in *.profilename ... what seems to be a typo actually is caused by the BBS software, which inserts a space after (apparently) 50 consecutive characters​

the path to my profile's cache folder is:

E:\MOZILLA\PROFILES\TBIRD\<USERNAME>\Cache

(I normally display personal foldernames in uppercase for clarity).​

There are good reasons for locating Tbird (and Firefox) profiles in other than the default location, not the least of which is the retention of email in the event of a major system crash. It only requires moving (and renaming, if you choose) the profile folder(s) to the desired location and telling the program, either through the Profile Manager or by editing

C:\Documents and Settings\<Username>\Application Data\Thunderbird\profiles.ini​

to reflect the new path. To the best of my knowledge, that file's location can not be changed.

 

Ramona & Jim:

In the process of working through this, I've decided to make some changes in display and composition fonts. So that we're all working from the same baseline going forward, here are the settings I'm using now:

1. Display Fonts:

Proportional: Serif, Size: 14 Pixels
Serif: Arial
Sans-Serif: Tahoma
Monospace: Garamond, Size: 14 Pixels
Display resolution: 96bpi
Minimum Font Size: 14 Pixels
Allow Messages To Use Other Fonts: Yes
​

2. Composition> HTML Options

Font: Variable Width (as I've mentioned before, I prefer this to be Times New Roman (TNR) but after selecting TNR and clicking OK, the selection reverts back to Variable Width).

Size: Large (after viewing this for the first time, I like it better than Medium)​

I have two profiles in TB, mine as default and Bridgett (my wife's profile). The profiles are in the default location but the mail files are backed-up daily to another location and weekly to a Zip file not on the machine. Ramona pounded Mail file back-up into my head when I first found the Forum! The path to my profile is this:

Documents and Settings> Owner> Application Data> Thunderbird> Profiles> Default

Within the profile, there is no Cache file. The History.dat and XUL.mfl files are also not present. One of the utilities I use is ilSystem Wiper and it clears all history and temporary files on shutdown -- I don't know if that accounts for these files not being present or not.

I went into my prefs.js file, opened it with Notepad, and these are the prefs present with font:

user_pref( "font.minimum-size.x-western ", 14);
user_pref( "font.name.monospace.x-western ", "Garamond ");
user_pref( "font.name.sans-serif.x-western ", "Tahoma ");
user_pref( "font.name.serif.x-western ", "Arial ");
user_pref( "font.size.fixed.x-western ", 14);
user_pref( "font.size.variable.x-western ", 14);​

They appear to be correct given the current composition font settings.

Finally, in the Compose Window> Format, I entered some text in the message area and then checked the Format settings: the font was TNR and the size was Large, the correct selections given the HTML Options settings. TNR also appeared in the formatting bar.

I then tried bulleting and indenting, and in both cases the format selections changed to Variable Width and Medium. The font name in the formatting bar also changed to Variable Width in both cases.

I think that covers what you requested. I'm interested in what you think about the Cache, History.dat and XUL.mfi files being missing from the profile, and also why the HTML Options font selection continues to revert to variable width rather than sticking with the font selected.

If you need more information, I'll be happy to give it a shot. I will be offline briefly but will check when I return. Thanks for hanging in there with this!

 

Bob,

Your application for deleting temp files is probably deleting the Cache FOLDER, not file. However, it definitely would not delete the XUL.mfl file, and I'm not certain about history.dat. I think I would take Thunderbird off the list of programs for deleting temp files, as you should have the XUL.mfl file.

The XUL.mfl file is the last file listed in your default folder. Did you scroll all the way to the end? I was thinking that you might have missed seeing the file.

I still strongly suggest creating a new Profile, especially in view of missing files and a folder:
Start | Programs | Mozilla Thunderbird | Profile Manager
Don't use the "Default User ", give the Profile a unique name.
Don't move anything from your (default) Profile
Create one Mail Account, and leave the font settings at default
Now try your bullets, and indent


FWIW Mozilla recommends that you don't use "default" as a Profile name. See this KB article: Keep it working

 

Ramona:

I've removed Thinderbird from the files to be cleaned by ilSystem Wiper.

Regarding the profile name, I did replace "Default User" as the profile name during set-up with "Bob ". The profile appears as "Bob" in the Profile Manager. In the Application Data files, however, the profile is identified as "slt.default ".

I created a new profile and called it RDE and set-up the mail account -- nothing else. The profile contains an XUL.mfi file, but no History.dat and no Cache file or folder. There is an Extensions.cache file.

Composing a message, the formatting bar reads "variable width ", and under Format, the Font is variable width and the Size is medium. Using indent and bullets, the font and size remain unchanged.

I then went back to Format and changed the font to TNR and the size to large. Those settings were applied to inital text entered. But bullet and indent still reverted to variable width and medium.

Since I only have two mail accounts (mine & my wife's), I'm going to delete the new RDE profile until I hear further from you.

Bob

 

Ramona, Bob ...

I don't think Tbird has a history.dat file (although Firefox does). My Tbird profile folder does have a history.mab file, but that seems to contain the formatting instructions for the Address Book.

Ramona ...

I assume that your Tbird profile has a Cache folder, as you designated the path to it in an earlier post. I have two profiles; one has a Cache folder, the other does not, and I can find no information on the Mozilla site about what purpose a Tbird Cache folder might serve.

As a test, I moved the folder, with its four files (named _CACHE_001_ through _CACHE_003_ and _CACHE_MAP_, all last modified in July and August 2003), to a temporary location and closed Tbird. When I reopened it the Cache folder had not been re-created, and there have been no adverse effects. As I think about it, though, I'm inclined to believe that it was left over from an earlier incarnation of Tbird (I've been using the same profile since long before version 1.0) that may have required a Cache..

 

BirdieBob,

I don't think you can get the results that you want the way that you want it.
ie: set the font and size and get bullets/indents in the same font as body text.

The only way I can accomplish this is to:
1. Set the bullet/indent FIRST then set the font and size via massage format bar. It seems to reset the bullet/indent separate from the body text. ( as you have noted)
or
2. Set the font, enter the bullet text - THEN - select bullet.

Not really a solution, but that is the way I see it.

regards:captjlddavis

 

Bob,

Thunderbird has NO Cache folder, or history.dat file. My error, and I surely must have Firefox on the brain. Sorry for steering you wrong Bob! Thanks Jim for waking me up! However, the XUL.mfl file should be in the salted folder, and should be deleted, as it will grow to a humongous size. TB will rebuild the file.

captjlddavis said it all, as it isn't possible to get what you want as a default setting. I have no more suggestions for you, as I have tried everything in the book. Why your font changes sizes with bullets and indents will remain a mystery to me, as mine doesn't?