System shuts down after first 15 minutes

XP Pro Service Pack 2 (build 2600)
Gateway Desktop E-4600 4000762

Ran well for 5 years then..

From a cold start everything boots up and runs OK for about 15-20 minutes. The system then shuts down with the power light going from green to yellow and becomes totally unresponsive. If I then disconnect the power cord, reconnect it and restart the system the sytem will run all day with no problem.

Checked with Gateway and they said it could be a badly seated memory module or video card. This sounded weird to me but I switched memory modules and reseated the video card to no avail.

Any ideas?

 

Sounds like you need a PSU. I'm not positive, I think the size on gateways is diffrent than norman so be sure to check if it will fit.

 

Yup, most probably a power supply problem.

 

Could also be some cooling problem. A failing fan on the cpu or on the power supply. If you're hearing some funny noise from the fans, they either need changing or lubricating. if you're not that technical it's better to change them. To lubricate a fan you need to remove it from its position anyway.

 

Maybe, but the system should shut down again after 15-20 minutes and not keep working properly.

 

It gets even weirder

So now I tried shut down and reboot immediately after the windows start button showed and it didn't crash after 15-20 minutes!
After an hour of running OK I turned it off and let it sit for an hour then restarted it without immediately re- booting and sure enough - it crapped out in 15 minutes!

 

Another significant(?) fact

The shutdown then restart with the power button prevents the problem from occuring; however, the restart button (of the standby-shutdown-restart) does not.

 

If you have not cleaned inside the case for a while, now's the time. Ensure there is no build up of dust in the heatsinks of the fans (you should be able to remove the fan to clean the heatsink, do not remove the heatsink from the chip). Start up and check all the fans are spinning freely, including the PSU fan.

You should be able to check temperatures and voltages in the BIOS settings, or, get Everest in my signature.

Check if there are any capacitors on the motherboard that are swollen or leaky.

Matt

 

Still no success

Well I did all that - took off the heatsink fan and cleaned up all the dust there and on the PSU fan. Both fans spun up OK when I put the power to it. Then I reassmbled the case and then I turned it on and it ran OK. (It always seems to run OK on the second power up so..)
Shut it off for about 5 hours and then started it up and it crapped out after 15 minutes.

 

Any luck checking temps and voltages?

Matt

 

Temps & Voltages

I downloaded Everest per your recommendation and looked at the temps and voltages but did not know how to assess the readings :

Temperatures
Motherboard 52 C
CPU 63 C
WDC WD800BB-50DKA0 37 C

Cooling Fans
CPU 3511 RPM

Voltage Values
CPU Core 1.65V
+2.5V 2.50V
+3.3V 3.32V
+5v 5.10V

 

First take - Overheating

I tend to agree with the others who favour overheating being the cause.

63C is a bit too high for a CPU - even an Intel - but the differential between the system (alias case or motherboard) temp and the CPU seems about right which suggests the internal case temperature is too high. Therefore I would consider checking the airflow through the case and the effectiveness of the case cooling fans. Also check hard disk temperatures. After five years HDDs tend to become very worn & tired.

Check the disks with a utility program like HDDlife.

 

I agree about the temps and the air flow through the case. Look at where the air is being drawn into the case. I clean my main computer about once a year and even then I find it gathers a thick layer of dust on the intake holes. I need to take the front panel off the tower/case to remove the build-up around the holes in the metal frame. Look into how to remove the front panel, usually it is a series of clips around the edges, you need to be careful not to force and break them. Startup with the case open and check all the fans are spinning freely (especially the PSU fan). The CPU fan may be attached to the frame and have hood that directs the airflow over the CPU heatsink, usually these just clip into place, although take note of how it is clipped on when you remove it. Do not remove the heatsink from the CPU chip.

3500 rpm for the CPU fan may seem a little low to me. You should find reasonable quality replacement fans available, you just need to ensure the replacement fan is the same dimensions and has the same connector (with a speed monitor).

As a quick test and maybe to stop the shutdowns while you find a replacement. Run with the case open and with a desk fan directed into the case.

One thing I just thought about. Check the CPU usage. Do Ctrl-Alt-Delete -> Task Manager -> Performance. If a rouge program is causing constant high CPU usuage it could be a reason (part of the problem).

I have come across temperatures in the 40s that will give Intel chips problems, 60s, I would have little doubt, would be causing problems.

Matt

 

Don't think it is heat related

If it were heat related then wouldn't it **** out within the 15-20 minute period when I restart after the initial failure? But it runs for hours after the second start.

 

Nothing is certain!

What we have done is relate possible causes for the symptom. The case temperature is too high and something is causing that. Cutting out is a common symptom of overheating - CPU normally, but other components can also contribute.

The intermittant nature suggests a hardware component failure - or one that is about to fail.

Try to locate the source of the heat. The suggestion of leaving the side panel open for a period has merit. This will keep the inside of the case cooler and it would be helpful if you would record the temperature readings after 20-30 minutes. I would not leave the side panel off for too long as the hard disk/s may overheat due to lack of airflow.

 

Not intermittant

The occurence is not intermittant - it is consistent and predictable. Turn it on and 15 minutes later it shuts off. Unplug and replug the power cord, restart and it runs fine for hours.
There is no entry in the event log and no memory dump.
I can find no reference to what the change in the power button from green to yellow signifies.
I have not determined how long it has to be off after the first failure such that proper operation will not occur.

 

Wrong word

Perhaps "˜intermittant’ is the wrong word "“ "˜conditional variation’ may be more appropriate. The power light changing to yellow suggests to me that the machine has gone into hibernation/standby or is it registering a power problem. If the light is stable I would expect the former while flashing would suggest the latter "“ but I am not too knowledgeable on Gateway machines.

I have witnessed many PSU problems but not one with this symptom. That does not mean the PSU is blameless but the normal way to check is to find a temporary replacement "“ though I recognise this will not be easy for a Gateway PC.

The overheating characteristic still remains and should not be ignored. The Intel P4 1.9 processor series have a maximum temperature of 73 or 75C. This is in excess of the 63C you reported but an old CPU is unlikely to work to specification.

The variables still remain and I favour some hardware failure "“ albeit only under certain conditions.

Does the problem occur if you cold start with the side panel off?
Is/are the hard disk/s within temperature tolerance? On a healthy PC I would expect readings between 38 and 45C. The maximum is usually between 50 and 55C.
Have you run a S.M.A.R.T. check on the HDD/s?
How about a memory test?
Does the PC emit any bleeps when it powers down on failure?
Is the latest BIOS level installed?
Are the temperature thresholds set at reasonable levels?

Clutching at straws maybe "“ but still trying to help.

 

More dead ends

Yes, the problem occurs with the side panel off.
Hard Disk is 28 c
Haven't run tests on hard drive
Memory tests ok
No bleeps - it's a sudden instantaneos shutdown
I tried to get Gateway to explain the switch from green to yellow on the power button to no avail.
I'll check for the latest bios.

 

Have you tried changing the SMPS ?

 

Little to add

There is little else I can suggest other than it may be time to get your local PC repair man on the job. With the necessary spare parts and test equipment it shouldn’t be too difficult to eliminate the main possibilities.

I have heard of problems of this nature being caused by motherboard or CPU fractures. When the PC cools, condensation is formed and when the PC warms up again the fracture opens thus admitting moisture which causes havoc in the electronics resulting in the power down. Once the moisture dries then every thing works again. I haven’t experienced this myself so cannot add any other information. The fact that the failure can happen while your PC is warm (hot) sort of discounts this theory anyway.

You are probably aware of the following similar problem (same scenario but different symptom) with the same model here:

http://hardware.mcse.ms/archive15-2004-11-100809.html

Bananaball, if you come up with any additional information I’ll have a look at it but I don’t think there is much else I can contribute for the moment "“ other than take a trip across the pond to Pennsylvania with my tool bag!

Bill