Random Crashes when using web browser

Hello All,

I have a very annoying problem that I cannot fathom, and it is driving me bonkers!:

Randomly, when using either AOL(version 9) browser or Internet Explorer - my PC crashes. My screen goes black and my base unit does not respond, even to the power button, even though the light is still on. When I reboot my PC, all is fine again and have no error messages. This can happen either once or eight times during a two hour surfing session. It has only happened twice whilst off line.

I have run Adware removal, spyware removal, virus removal and Registry Mechanic software, but to no avail. It just keeps crashing.

I am running Windows XP (SP2) on a AMD Athlon 64 - 3400+

Is it AOL or is it my graphics card (Radeon 9800), or am I just going mad!!!?

All help very much appretiated, and will stop me from throwing my PC out of the window.....

Regards,
Donhinio.

PS. I live in the UK

 

Lets approach this from a troubleshooting perspective.

IF it were the video card freezing; your computer would still respond to input from your keyboard and mouse even though you could not see the result. SO if you were to do the ctrl+alt+del twice or Windows key(to bring up start menu) followed by R then enter it would restart.

But you mention that the power button on the front has no effect either.

Now , if the CPU locked up, often you will see the last frame it sent to the video card displayed. The computer appears normal, just frozen. NO response to input from keyboard or mouse. It could still be this, especially if you have onboard video which relies on the CPU (but you do not) . Heat or power instability are common causes of CPU lockup.

But the power button should still restart it , at least if you hold it down for five seconds to cause the power supply solenoid which is tripped on when you first press the button to trip off.

What would disable the power button on the front? A bad power supply is most likely. It would also lock things up when it became unstable and the voltage got out of safe range. Although a short (incorrect installation of the motherboard, failure to use two fiber washers one above and one below the board at all mounting points) could also cause these symptoms.

Since everest is no longer free, I would recommend trying
Sisoftsandra
or
Fresh diagnose
To check your voltages and make sure that they are not over ten percent variant from the specified value(Less than five percent preferably).


My question at this point would be what type of connection you have? A dial up modem, a USB connection to a broadband modem , or ethernet?
USB could also cause short or excessive draw on your 5V rail.

That it happens more commonly while online may in fact be caused by the increased usage of either the CPU or video card. Both could cause heat issues or power issues.

I too agree you should check your event log to rule out a driver issue; but really think this is more likely to be hardware related.

 

Just a silly question: are you sure the CPU fan is OK?

 

along the fan lines mentioned, is this system cooled ok? check u'r temps. and the PS is another possible. is u'rs up to snuff on u'r setup? eg - enuff wattage and stable. if u'r overclocking, don't

re: power button - are u holding it in for 5 secs? or just pushing it once?

 

Hello All,

Many thanks for the friendly welcome!

As a newbie in the fixing PC stakes, can you explain two things for me so I can get a better understanding:

1) When you talk about the voltage not being correct, what exactly does this mean, and why would the pc be okay for about four months before starting to crash?

2) I have loaded SiSoftware - Sandra Lite, what do I use to tell me that my voltage is okay?

Pete C: My computer has not crashed since my first posting, so cannot post the error message here.

oshwyn5: Since it has not crashed, I have not tried to hold the power button for five seconds yet, and I have a USB broadband connection.

Many thanks,
Donhinio.

 

as to temps - u'r MB maker should have some util to 'gauge' the temps. install it or use bios to 'see' what they're at. if they're high, u can/should get a HSF (heatsink/fan) that will do a better job cooling it.

most home built PCs w/ stock HFS are not that great on temps. if the chip gets too hot, it'll freeze or reboot.

i've seen some pre-builts that come overclocked w/ stock RAM that will run fine on standard apps. once something 'pushes' them - usually a game or such - they blow up ... eg - they're sold as p 4 2.4 but they're really a p4 1.8 w/ the FSB cranked up

anyway ... re: bios temps - what are they in C? if they're up near/above 70c ... it's too hot ... much nicer to be down near 45c or so

 

Have you updated Windows ? Firewall ? Can you swap power supply ?

 

Thanks All for your advice so far...

I have pasted below the Sisoftware readout from my system, the 'Temperature Sensor' and 'Voltage Sensor' readings are halfway down, but have also included other readings as they may hold a clue to your trained eyes.

Is there anything untoward here?

rsinfo: Yes I do have updated Windows and Norton antivirus and firewall

Many thanks,
Donhinio.

PS. Further to my first post, my PC does re power if I hold the power on button for 5 seconds after a crash.


=======================================================
SiSoftware Sandra

System
Manufacturer : Tiny Computers
Model : MS-6741
Version : 1.0
Serial Number : 00000000
ID : 00000000-00000000-00000000-00000000

System Chassis
Manufacturer : Uknown Chassis Manufacture
Type : Desktop
Can be locked : No
Version : Version 1.00
Serial Number : 123456890
Asset Tag : 0123ABC

Mainboard
Manufacturer : Time Computers
MP Support : 1 Processor(s)
MPS Version : 1.40
Model : MS-6741
Version : 1.0
Serial Number : 00000000
System BIOS : 63-1108-009999-00101111-040201-VIA

Memory Controller
Error Detection Method : ECC
Error Correction Capability : 1-bit
Supported/Current Memory Interleave : 1-way / 1-way
Number of Memory Slots : 2
Maximum Installable Memory : 2GB
Maximum Module Size : 1GB
Supported STD/FPM/(B)EDO Speeds : 70ns, 60ns
Supported Memory Types : STD, FPM, EDO, Parity, ECC, SIMM
Supported Memory Voltages : +3.3V

Physical/BIOS Memory Banks
DIMM1 (RASL-1 RASL-0) : 512MB DIMM SDRAM single-bank
DIMM2 (RASL-3 RASL-2) : 512MB DIMM SDRAM single-bank

Chipset 1
Model : VIA Technologies Inc K8M400 CPU to PCI Bridge
Bus(es) : ISA AGP PCI IMB USB FireWire/1394 i2c/SMBus
Version : 1.02
Front Side Bus Speed : 2x 800MHz (1600MHz data rate)
In/Out Width : 16-bit / 16-bit

Chipset 1 Hub Interface
Type : V-Link
In/Out Width : 4-bit / 4-bit
Multiplier : 2/1x
IO Queue Depth : 9 request(s)

Logical/Chipset 1 Memory Banks
Power Save Mode : No
Fixed Hole Present : No

Chipset 2
Model : Advanced Micro Devices (AMD) Athlon 64 / Opteron HyperTransport Technology Configuration
Bus(es) : ISA AGP PCI IMB USB FireWire/1394 i2c/SMBus
Version : 1.02
Front Side Bus Speed : 2x 800MHz (1600MHz data rate)
Maximum FSB Speed / Max Memory Speed : 2x 1000MHz / 2x 200MHz
In/Out Width : 16-bit / 16-bit
IO Queue Depth : 8 request(s)

Chipset 2 Hub Interface
Type : HyperTransport
Version : 1.02
In/Out Width : 16-bit / 16-bit
Speed : 2x 800MHz (1600MHz data rate)

Logical/Chipset 2 Memory Banks
Bank 0 : 512MB DDR-SDRAM 2.5-3-3-7 1CMD
Bank 2 : 512MB DDR-SDRAM 2.5-3-3-7 1CMD
Channels : 1
Speed : 2x 160MHz (320MHz data rate)
Multiplier : 1/15x
Width : 64-bit
Refresh Rate : 6.00µs
Power Save Mode : No
Fixed Hole Present : No

APIC 1
Version : 0.03
Multiplier : 1/2x
Maximum Interrupts : 24
IRQ Handler Engaged : Yes
Enhanced Support : Yes

Memory Module 1
Manufacturer : Kingston
Model : K
Serial Number : 53289D54
Type : 512MB DDR-SDRAM
Technology : 8x(64Mx8)
Speed : PC2700U 2.5-3-3-7
Date of Manufacture : 19 March 2005
Set Timing @ 167MHz : 2.5-3-3-7
Set Timing @ 133MHz : 2.0-2-2-6

Memory Module 2
Manufacturer : Kingston
Model : K
Serial Number : 52289754
Type : 512MB DDR-SDRAM
Technology : 8x(64Mx8)
Speed : PC2700U 2.5-3-3-7
Date of Manufacture : 19 March 2005
Set Timing @ 167MHz : 2.5-3-3-7
Set Timing @ 133MHz : 2.0-2-2-6

Environment Monitor 1
Model : Winbond W83697(T)HF ISA
Version : 6.00
Mainboard Specific Support : No

Temperature Sensor(s)
Board Temperature : 45.5°C / 113.9°F
CPU Temperature : 47.0°C / 116.6°F td

Cooling Device(s)
Auto Fan Speed Control : No
Chassis Fan Speed : 2637rpm
CPU Fan Speed : 2250rpm

Voltage Sensor(s)
CPU Voltage : 1.47V
+3.3V Voltage : 3.26V
+5V Voltage : 4.92V
+12V Voltage : 12.28V
-12V Voltage : -11.95V
-5V Voltage : -5.10V
Standby Voltage : 4.87V
Battery Voltage : 3.52V

AGP Bus(es) on Hub 1
Version : 3.00
Speed : 8x
Fast-Writes Enabled : Yes
Isochronous Mode Enabled : No
Addressing Enabled : 32-bit

PCI Bus(es) on Hub 1
Version : 2.10
Number of Bridges : 1
PCI Bus 0 : PCI (1/1x PCIClk)

LPC Hub Controller 1
Model : VIA Technologies Inc VT8237 PCI to ISA Bridge
ACPI Power Management Enabled : Yes
Delayed Transaction Supported : Yes
Delayed Transaction Enabled : No
Multiplier : 1/4x
DMA Multiplier : 1/2x

USB Controller 1
Model : Micro-Star International Co Ltd (MSI) VT82xxxxx UHCI USB 1.1 Controller (All VIA Chipsets)
Version : 1.10
Interface : UHCI
Channels : 2
Speed : 48MHz
Supported Speed(s) : Low (1.5Mbps) Full (12Mbps)
Legacy Emulation Enabled : No

USB Controller 2
Model : Micro-Star International Co Ltd (MSI) VT82xxxxx UHCI USB 1.1 Controller (All VIA Chipsets)
Version : 1.10
Interface : UHCI
Channels : 2
Speed : 48MHz
Supported Speed(s) : Low (1.5Mbps) Full (12Mbps)
Legacy Emulation Enabled : No

USB Controller 3
Model : Micro-Star International Co Ltd (MSI) VT82xxxxx UHCI USB 1.1 Controller (All VIA Chipsets)
Version : 1.10
Interface : UHCI
Channels : 2
Speed : 48MHz
Supported Speed(s) : Low (1.5Mbps) Full (12Mbps)
Legacy Emulation Enabled : No

USB Controller 4
Model : Micro-Star International Co Ltd (MSI) VT82xxxxx UHCI USB 1.1 Controller (All VIA Chipsets)
Version : 1.10
Interface : UHCI
Channels : 2
Speed : 48MHz
Supported Speed(s) : Low (1.5Mbps) Full (12Mbps)
Legacy Emulation Enabled : No

USB Controller 5
Model : Micro-Star International Co Ltd (MSI) VT6202/12 USB 2.0 Enhanced Host Controller
Version : 2.00
Specification : 1.00
Interface : EHCI
Channels : 8
Companion Controllers : 4
Supported Speed(s) : Low (1.5Mbps) Full (12Mbps) High (480Mbps)
Addressing Support : 32-bit
Legacy Emulation Enabled : No

FireWire/1394 Controller 1
Model : Micro-Star International Co Ltd (MSI) VT6306 VIA Fire II IEEE-1394 OHCI Link Layer Controller
Version : 1.00
Interface : OHCI
Enhanced Support : No
Channels : 64
Speed : 400MHz

System SMBus Controller 1
Model : VIA VT823x SMBus
Advanced TCO Mode Enabled : No
Slave Device Enabled : No
PEC Support : No
Speed : 16kHz

Expansion Slot(s)
PCI1 (1h) : PCI 32-bit +3.3V Shared PME Full-Length Used (VIA Technologies Inc Apollo K8HTB CPU to AGP 2.0/3.0 Bridge)
PCI2 (2h) : PCI 32-bit +3.3V Shared PME Full-Length Used
PCI3 (3h) : PCI 32-bit +3.3V Shared PME Full-Length Used
PCI4 (4h) : PCI 32-bit +3.3V Shared PME Full-Length
PCI5 (5h) : PCI 32-bit +3.3V Shared PME Full-Length (Micro-Star International Co Ltd (MSI) Ralink RT2500 802.11 CardBus Reference Card)
ISA1 (6h) : ISA 16-bit +3.3V Shared PME Full-Length
ISA2 (7h) : ISA 16-bit +3.3V Shared PME Full-Length

Port Connector
USB - Def : SSA SCSI - Mini Centronics / DB-25 pin male

Performance Tips
Notice 224 : SMBIOS/DMI information may be inaccurate.
Warning 2507 : Mainboard has too few memory slots. Upgrading the memory may be difficult or expensive.
Warning 2508 : All memory slots are full. Upgrading the memory may be difficult or expensive.
Warning 100 : Large memory sizes should be made of Registered/Buffered memory.
Tip 2546 : Large memory modules should be ECC/Parity.
Tip 2 : Double-click tip or press Enter while a tip is selected for more information about the tip.

 

It's true that 98% of crashes occur whilst on the internet, but 2% (about four times out of the hundreds of crashes) have been offline.

Could the modem be responsible for that too?

Have just sent you PM with email, and will cross reference the temperatures and post them...

Thanks,
Donhinio.

 

Pete,

Many thanks for the mail....

Sensor readings below:

--------[ Sensor ]------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sensor Properties:
Sensor Type Winbond W83697HF (ISA 290h)
Motherboard Name MSI MS-6524 / 6701 / 6741

Temperatures:
Motherboard 46 °C (115 °F)
CPU 58 °C (136 °F)
Seagate ST3200822AS 47 °C (117 °F)
Seagate ST3200822AS 47 °C (117 °F)

Cooling Fans:
CPU 2557 RPM
Chassis 2280 RPM

Voltage Values:
CPU Core 1.49 V
Aux 0.03 V
+3.3 V 3.28 V
+5 V 4.95 V
+12 V 12.16 V
-12 V -12.03 V
-5 V -5.10 V
+5 V Standby 4.87 V
VBAT Battery 3.54 V
Debug Info F 42 4A FF
Debug Info T 58 46 255
Debug Info V 5D 02 CD B8 C8 23 34 (01)

 

Looking over temperatures and voltages I see nothing which would explain a crash. Of course it could be intermittent which would not show until it was about to happen.

Given the predominance of crashes being when you are online (the others could be when something like an automated update process connected) I would suspect the USB modem. I have heard of many instances where a USB modem caused problems like this which replacing it with an ethernet modem and a router solved. Does this modem support connecting through an ethernet as alternative ? Does it have external power or does it draw all power over the USB? Finally do you have other USB devices?


My technique for ruling out other causes would be to disconnect the USB modem from the computer and then do something processor intensive such as watch a DVD movie if you have a dvd player, or set the screensaver to one of the more complex ones (3d maze and click settings to the right of it and change wall floor and ceilings to complex colorful and all different , set to full screen ) let it run for a couple hours. Anything else you can think of based on the programs you have to stress things out a bit and see if it crashes.

If not, it is either your modem or it is spyware infesting your computer.
Go online and get the programs recommended on the Spyware and malware removal board (Spybot, ad-aware, etc) and run them to make sure you are clean.
If you come up clean; I would conclude it was the modem.

PS, in the hands of Pete C and Skeet you are in the hands of two of the best I know. So make sure you did what they suggested before you bother with these steps.

 

Hi Donhinio,

Sorry the delay, I was away... I agree with Petec and, if the crashes still happen, I would suggest to leave your PC on and running a few programs, not connected to the modem. Leave it for a few hours or overnight. That will prove that the problem is not related to the modem nor the Net. Run as many programs as you can to fill the memory, sort of dynamic memory tests. Let us know what happens. If it is OK, try to disable the programs that run in the background during startup (run msconfig and experiment). But again, an intermitently faulty PS may still be the culprit...

Good luck!

 

ah ... u'r da man pete ... how's the hounds?


to OP - i'm not really current on HW stuff so take all from skeet here w/ grain of salt. stick w/ petec, pete and apeF in this thread

 

Big thanks to all for your help and advice - it's invaluable!

I am changing from AOL next week to a new ISP and am getting a new modem with ethernet, so I will wait until then and see if my crashes re occur.


oshwyn5: System definately clean of spyware.

Pete C: Sorry to be a baffoon, but which utility should I download from AMD?

I'll post you again next week and let you know either way as to how I get on.

Thanks again.
Donhinio.