no "explorer" showing in ctrl-alt-del

Trying to close all apps before installing DSL software on a friend's computer (WinME) -- noticed that clicking ctrl-alt-del brings up the usual popup screen, but explorer is not one of the items listed! Her computer has required manual shutdowns for the last couple of days; scandisk usually completes after re-start, but sometimes it freezes before even starting. When the computer is up and running, the task bar works okay and she is able to use all the programs she usually does. But after 3 fresh starts, explorer still doesn't show up in that ctrl-alt-del box ... What might have happened to it? Can we get it back?
Thanks!

 

Nobody out there with any ideas about this one?
Explorer still consistently fails to show up with ctrl-alt-del. Computer sometimes reboots when it's been told to shut down, sometimes reboots without scandisk coming up, other times scandisk starts up after the "computer was not shut down properly" message (sometimes freezes during this process, sometimes it runs okay). Sometimes you still have to just use the on/off button to turn the system off. Various other things seem to be not working at times, though precisely what depends on the direction the wind is blowing or something. I tried reinstalling WinME (using the owner's restoration CD [Compaq]) this afternoon, but even that failed - got a few steps into the process, then a screen came up saying "Working ", but no noise from the tower at all, and after about 10 minutes, I ended up turning the computer off manually. Tried again, and got a message to turn off the computer. Tried a third time, and got stuck at the "working" stage again.
All of this seems to have started after the owner got hooked up to high-speed internet. No system restore dates that predate this, unfortunately.
If no one has any ideas, how about at least some ideas for keywords I might try for further searches?
Come to think of it... the "explorer" that is supposed to show up in ctrl-alt-del (the one that along with systray, you generally want to avoid shutting down) - that is Windows explorer, is it not? I mean, I know it's not Internet Explorer, but is it yet a different "explorer "?

 

Hi Rebecca

as I understand it, "Explorer" (that should always be there) is more like the heart of Windows itself;
Windows Explorer shows up something like "Exploring C:\ ";
Internet Explorer shows up like "somepage - Microsoft Internet Explorer "

(this is what you get with W98, AFAIK ME would be similar)

==

from the way you describe the fault as first manifesting after hooking up to high speed internet, my first thoughts were along the lines of "Is it firewalled - spyware/malware / HJT log "...
...but considering the hardware peculiarities, perhaps a better bet would be to check for a dodgy connection, disturbed during the hookup to new box(es) for high speed internet.

Have you tried with the cabling to the internet boxes disconnected?

aaargh - it's a Compaq Oh dear.

Is it the sort of Compaq that will boot from a startup floppy, or are you completely constrained to using the restore CD - any idea?

My (very old) Compaq will answer to a SUD, but I gather the newer ones are harder to handle...

best wishes, HJ

 

I tried creating a boot disk from her computer (from the startup disk tab in Add/Remove programs), but it said there was some file missing - I found the file online and downloaded it, but didn't know what to do with it after that... So I downloaded (and saved to a floppy disk) a boot disk for WinME from the internet, and tried that - but no, come to think of it, I got carried away with the reinstallation instructions in the Compaq manual, which said to put in the CD first. The CD subsequently prompted me for a diskette, at which time I put in the floppy, and shortly thereafter is when I think I was told to "turn off the computer ". So I haven't actually tried to boot from the floppy - I'll go back and give it a shot in the next couple of days.
Another odd thing about her computer: there's a D:\ drive called "sav" or something (came with the computer). It's got an autoexec file in there and a config something-or-other. Has the appearance of a possible restore partition to me (from what little I know about such things), but I can't find mention of any such thing in the owner's manual.
Is there a standard means by which one would access something like that, assuming it really is a restoration partition?

Oops, sorry about deviating from the original topic - but then again, the original question still stands: where the devil did "explorer" go?

 

Hi again

any luck with the SUD?

this has to be the thing to sort out first!

if the (text-mode) scandisk is freezing up, it means that the computer is having problems writing to / reading from the HDD correctly...

the computer isn't running Windows at this point - it isn't even multi-tasking when it's doing this. All it's doing is checking out the disk drive, and from what you say, it's not liking what it finds...

if you can't use the HDD reliably there's litle point in doing anything like installing Windows or trying to restore a from backup, 'coz either of these procedures involves writing zillions of files to the HDD

==

If you can get the machine started from a SUD, you won't be relying on any of the ?messed up files on the hard drive - so you can test things out properly and trust the results you get.

Doesn't have to be a ME startup disk for this, Win98 would do, other Windows too probably - all you are trying to do is to find what's going wrong getting the files onto / off the hard drive

Here's what I would do:
- power off
- open the box, look (particularly) at the ribbon cable which plugs into the HDD.
- ? is it in firmly (they can work loose);
- ? is the other (motherboard) end of the ribbon cable OK;

if all looks good then:
- power on and start up from the floppy (SUD);
- you don't even need CDROM support for this (saves a couple of seconds!);
- when you get to the A:\> prompt type scandisk C: <return>
- when it's finished doing the first bit and then asks you "do you want a surface scan ", answer Yes;

The surface scan takes a while. You are not really interested in whether there are any bad sectors - you are trying to determine whether it's going to freeze up!

While the surface scan is running, I (carefully) wiggle the ribbon cable, particularly the bits close to the connectors (including a middle connector if there is one, even if it's not plugged into anything)...

(carefully just means keeping fingers away from the other bits of the computer )

...because if the ribbon cable has gone dodgy this will stop scandisk dead in its tracks. If that happens you have found the problem!

of course, if the pesky Compaq won't boot up from a floppy, none of this is much use...

==

if / when you can get to the end of the surface scan without trouble, then doing things with Windows will make sense... but while you can't get the files on / off the HDD in one piece, all that's likely to happen is that you'll get frustrated going round in circles - which is what I'm trying to avoid by suggesting the basic stuff first

best wishes, HJ

 

Thanks, Hugh -
I'll try to get back over to my friend's house in the next couple of days and give your instructions a shot - I'll post back and let you know the outcome.

 

Hi Hugh!
Ran through your suggestions from the 14th - the ribbon cable seems secure at both ends, and I was able to boot up from a WinME startup disk from my old computer. We let the surface scan run overnight, and it completed its task without incident. Computer booted up fine afterwards, but when we do ctrl-alt-del, of course, there is still no "explorer" entry. Just for the record, I rebooted the computer twice yesterday afternoon, before following your advice: one time it booted up fine, the other time, scandisk ran (without freezing).
I'll go back today and see what else I might be able to try, in case you or anyone else has any suggestions. How about trying to boot from the floppy with CD support this time? There are two CDs that came with the Compaq - I assume I would use "disc 1 of 2" first?
BTW, I did try unplugging the USB connection from the tower to the high-speed modem, but it didn't seem to really change anything. Hard to say, for sure, since the computer does boot up okay from time to time anyway. But it didn't cause "explorer" to miraculously reappear in the task manager or anything...

 

Hi

glad that the ribbon seems secure, but still a bit worried about that freezing... that there may be some underlying hardware nasty poised "waiting in the wings" ready to undermine your good efforts... still, it's good that the machine will answer to a Startup disk, that's for sure.

yup, that would seem to be thing to do; I only suggested "without CD" above to save you a few seconds

ROTFL Rebecca - thanks! - I was having a pretty boring day 'til I read that... Yes, I know Compaq are weird, but surely to goodness not weird enough to use disc 2 before disc 1? (nothing is impossible...) I dunno - that's the way I would play it

Seriously, the only other way might be that the thing is meant to actually boot from the recovery CD itself - as opposed to boot from SUD, and then put in the CD. Try both ways, see what happens...

Maybe write down the model number while you're there, and post it for us pls?

Also - when the machine boots, look to see if the cursor goes briefly over to the top right hand corner of the screen (many Compaqs do this, but not all). If so then:
- the thing has probably got a hidden setup partition and
- hitting F10 at that point may well get you into the setup (should you need to)

good luck & best wishes, HJ

 

Tried booting from the floppy with CD support, but ended up getting the same error message with the CD as before ( "QuickRestore Error - call Compaq" - the computer's 5 years old, I'm sure Compaq won't be of any help). Gave safe mode a shot after that, tried a few other things suggested in the Troubleshooting window using the startup disk. Still no change. Figured what the heck, the problem looks unsolvable anyway, try some more radical stuff. One of the things we did was type in "C sys" (or "C: sys" ?) at the A:\prompt. Now we can only start in Safe Mode, so I guess that was not the right step to take there! (The WinME splash screen comes up, followed by a DOS type of screen saying, 'press ctrl-alt-del to restart your computer' - which, after a bit of a wait brings back the WinME splash screen again, followed by the ctrl-alt-del bit, etc., etc.)
I'd forgotten you'd suggested trying F10 to access the D: partition - I'll go back on Monday and see if that does the trick.
As an aside, there's something amiss with the A: drive on that computer, too. The computer can read floppies from it, but apparently can't write to them (we tried copying some files to a couple of different diskettes - didn't get any error messages or anything, but the floppies were still blank after data had supposedly been written to them).
BTW, the owners are prepared for the likelihood of needing to buy a new computer - data's all backed up. But at this point we figure we really have nothing to lose by trying increasingly drastic measures on the off chance that something might work...

 

oh dear, problems on problems

it isn't the D: partition, it's a sneaky hidden setup partition which allows you to do things you would normally do with the BIOS settings

warning - if you FDISK to create HDD partitions afresh, you will obliterate it!

if you know the model number of the Compaq you can generally download diagnostics and setup utilities which will run from floppy - you need the exact model number, and need to be a bit cautious 'coz there's masses of different ones

what happens when you try booting straight from CD?

"QuickRestore Error - call Compaq" : any error code here pls?

is the USB provided by a socket on the computer, or was an expansion card fitted to provide the USB port? If a card was fitted, might be a good idea to try unplugging it!

==

no error message here? (like it thinks they are write protected maybe?) Did the floppy drive work OK before the hookup to high speed internet?

Also... if you check these floppies on a computer which works OK, do they show space allocated for the files (even if you can't see the files) (check bytes used and bytes available)

OK it might be a coincidence... but with the scandisk sometimes freezing as well, it really sounds like something's gone wrong with the hardware, which is why I ask whether a hardware alteration was needed for the internet hookup - something else might have been "nudged" at the same time

model number would be a real help!

best wishes, HJ

 

Thanks, Hugh -
Not sure if my friends are around this weekend, but as soon as the sun rises, I'll try giving them a call and ask them for the info you requested. In the meantime, though, in response to your query as to whether "the cursor goes briefly over to the top right hand corner of the screen ", it does.
There are 2 USB ports on the front of the computer, and two in the back; printer and high-speed modem are plugged into the front ports. Plugging in the USB cable between modem and tower is the only hardware "thing" we had to do for the high-speed internet connection.
I don't think the owners ever used the floppy drive before, so no way of telling how long there's been a problem with it. The floppies I tried to write to on their computer yesterday were ones on which I had just done a full format at home, on my own computer. What I'd tried to do at their house was make a copy my own ME startup disk so that they could have one of their own - kept getting "non-system disk" errors with the copies, though. Didn't realize they were still blank until I got home again and looked at them on my computer. Didn't think to check to see if space was allocated for the files, and I reformatted both diskettes just to be safe, so to late to check now...
When we try booting straight from CD, we get that same QuickRestore Error message - and yes, there is an error code, but I didn't bring it home with me; I'll get that info as well when I call.
If I don't post back again today, it means the computer's owners are out of town for the weekend, in which case I'll post the pertinent info on Monday. Thanks again for your continued help!

 

Hi again

something which might perhaps be useful (if you can get the thing to boot enough to run a program next time you're over there)...

if you have one of those USB "Pen Drive" / Keyfob things - removable storage device doobry is what I mean...

grab a copy of the most recent HijackThis (see BBS links) (and probably a copy of the VB6 runtimes setup for safety's sake), take them over there on the keyfob

see if you can get a HJT scan done. And with luck you might be able to save the results logfile back to the keyfob (even though the floppy drive is playing up)

?might need a driver CD for the keyfob though. But from what you say the CD drive is working, or at least trying to...

malware can do very strange things, and seeing as the problem happened after going high speed internet... it might be an idea to run the scan results past BBS resident experts in the spyware forum. As you will probably have to ?do the scan in safe mode from what you say, make that clear when you post

try to find out how they are fixed for "guardians" (antivirus, firewall) - do they take that sort of thing seriously? might have a bit of bearing on it.

==

if the machine answers to F10 you may be able to get into diagnostics - that in itself could perhaps be fruitful? Not all Compaq's use F10, but most do AFAIK

==

sussing out the error code has to be the most fruitful line of attack I feel

best wishes, HJ

 

QuickRestore Error 50:4 (or possibly 5O:4)

They can't find an actual model number for the Compaq, but it does say "Series 5008CA" - would that be it?

I installed Zone Alarm, AVG, SpywareBlaster and Spyware Guard on their computer when they made the transition to high-speed. But my friend admits she turned some of them off when she was troubleshooting some connection problems a couple of weeks ago. Gulp.

Is it possible to read from and write to a CD from safe mode? Could I put HijackThis and the VB6 runtimes setup on a CD, and then burn the resulting log to a CD? I don't have a pen drive or anything like that... though I could make some calls if need be.

 

Hi

check this out, it seems to have worked for somebody...

==

keyfob vs. CD:

if it's at all possible to borrow a keyfob (+ driver CD) then that must surely stand the best chance of working

the machine sounds really iffy - getting a burner to work ?? well I suppose it might but I wouldn't bet on it!

...but rather than trying to burn results to CD I would try to swipe a floppy drive from another computer and try to fit that temporarily as a replacement

depends upon how difficult Compaq have made the fixings for the floppy drive ! - but fitting a floppy drive can be as simple as three screws if you are lucky

this would also let you know whether the floppy is not writing properly because it's a naff drive, or because there's something else fundamentally wrong with the hardware

check the ribbon for the floppy! (why oh why didn't I ask you to check that when you were doing the other one sorry)

if you have to take a ribbon off, draw yourself a little diagram noting the orientation of the red stripe (which goes down one side of the ribbon cable) so you can put it back on correctly

red stripe goes to pin 1

==

re: model number - have to suss this better to stand any chance of getting hold of downloading the utilities, I'm afraid

good luck & best wishes, HJ

 

yo!

if you can run a HJT log...

...one of the things you get in the log file is a really good list of running tasks, much better than shows up with CtrlAltDel

might help re: the vanishing explorer thing

best wishes, HJ

 

I had high hopes for that link you provided, Hugh, but alas, we ended up with the QuickRestore 50:4 error again. Oh well, nothing tried, nothing gained!
I am now in the process of trying to figure out how the devil to get the floppy drive out of my old computer, so that I can try connecting that one to my friends' computer instead.
BTW, when I was inside the computer the other day checking that one ribbon you suggested, I also checked every other ribbon/wire/cable connection in there - everything seemed secure.
A look through Compaq's site revealed a place to look for model #, inside the CD storage door: PRES5008CA D70007-105 looks like the most likely candidate.
I've got VB6 runtimes setup and the most recent version of HJT on a floppy, and will try running them on my friends' computer this afternoon.
Hasta luego!

 

I'm posting the HJT log in the spyware section - I'll post back here once the verdict regarding that is in.
Incidentally, I hooked up my old floppy drive to her computer, and that worked fine.

 

very well done bet the effort feels worth it now!

rats - it looked quite believable

looking up Presario 5008CA at Compaq finds Compaq's suggested recovery process which has to be worth trying. It looks as though it can be started from FDISKing as long as you've booted using the Compaq CD.

...see how far you can get, and if it fouls up, post back with which stage it goes wrong and what it says

good luck & best wishes, HJ

 

The computer in question didn't come with a Recovery CD, only the two Restoration CDs. I think the owners are coming to the conclusion that they'd probably be better off getting a new computer altogether, rather than prolonging the 'agony' with their present one by ordering the Recovery CD from Compaq and hoping for the best with that. Still, I'll run it by them this afternoon and see what they say...
Thanks for your homework in the matter, Hugh. I thought I'd scoured Compaq's site regarding the 5008CA model, but I hadn't seen that info - I guess my search techniques still need fine-tuning!

 

Rebecca -

on the HJT log you posted - there is an explorer running

does that explorer not show up on the CtrlAltDel list, then?


best wishes, HJ