Up In Smoke

Hi all I was wondering if anybody else has had this happen to them! the other day I plugged in my Dell Axum x50v to sink it with my computer and my computer went up in smoke! It fried the south bridge chip (ICH5R) what a awful smell, I have done this 1000's of times with no ill effect! ( glad it didn't hurt the Axum) My motherboard is an Asus P4P800-E Deluxe with a p4 2.8 I have searched the web and found others who had the same trouble But I have not found any posts here with the same trouble. I hope asus will warranty this since they have a 3 year warranty

 

You don't say how they are connected. I would be certain in future not connect the device while both it and the computer are powered on, in fact, I might be inclined to have both powered off when connecting them. If there seems to be a problem with the connection, power off before reseating it.

Check if there are connection instructions in the Axum manual/guide.

Matt

 

Thx for the input the device (Axium) is connected through a USB cable. Now the computer is on when I plug in the USB cable, but the axium is not in the cradle and when I put the axium in the cradle it automatically powers on. I don't know if there is a setting to change the automatically power on but will check. Currently the cable is hooked to this computer and I have sink the axium a # of times with out any ill effect. Now the P4P800-E deluxe has always smelled hot kinda like new electrical equipment does when you first turn it on (new car smell) but I never thought much of it since all the temps were well within norm! and so were all the voltages

 

does the cradle itself have a separate power supply ( "wall wart" or similar adaptor) pls?

best wishes, HJ

 

Yes, the power system is something to investigate.

I was thinking along the lines of a possible cross-connection or momentary high resistance as the connection was being made (now, thinking about the power side, that might be a momentary high power drain as the Axum starts up). I think I would still do connection from both being powered off, if that can be done.

It may seem something is putting a lot of stress on the southbridge chip. This can be caused by the wrong or badly installed drivers running the components the wrong way. If you get the same model motherboard and swap your harddrive over, look at getting and updating the latest drivers, not only from Asus, but your other hardware as well. The southbridge chip handles all the "peripheral" hardware (PCI, USB, etc). Pay attention to chipset and USB Controller drivers.

Make a note if you notice that smell when you get your replacement motherboard, does it happen, or happen most, when you are working with particular hardware? I might think about putting a northbridge cooling fan and heatsink on the southbridge chip, although it shouldn't really need it, I would say some other hardware or drivers is stressing it.

Check through the BIOS upgrade information for that motherboard. If you get a replacement, it will probably already have a recent BIOS version. It would be good to check anyway.

Asus have a forum. It might be worthwhile to see if they may know any possible reasons for the southbridge chip to go that way. Of course, it may have been a physical fault with the motherboard, but your research has shown others with similar experiences.

(BTW, I doubt the southbridge chip itself will be monitored for temperature. You would probably need to attach a temperature probe to it to get a readout)

Matt

 

uh-oh. Looking around, seems it's a known issue with that motherboard and USB.

http://www.techsupportforum.com/showthread.php?t=68658

another:

http://www.short-media.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-16362.html

don't like the way people are reporting this happening when just plugging in a USB cable, with nothing on the other end of it ...or the snakelight which surely just takes power, doesn't use the USB data wires

there's talk of a cooling mod for the southbridge - but if it were my problem, I would surely be trying to get a different motherboard instead; this sounds more fundamental than mere overheating

sorry

HJ

 

pls confirm marking on chip (if you can still read it) as 82801ER - or if something else let me know what it is - Intel's datasheets are large downloads!

thanks

best wishes, HJ

 

Wow a lot if information that I didn't find on my searches! Hugh Jarss I cant give you the information you requested because the board is in transit to Asus. They gave me a RMA (after a call) I asked them if they were having trouble with this board and naturally they said no! Yes the Axiun does have its own power plug on the unit so you can charge it while its in the cradle. Mattman I just installed PPC 5 on the axum and I did notice that it updated the USB drivers for this computer (P4PE Asus) so before I hook up the Axium to the other computer P4P800 E D I will do the same! I have been updating everything as it comes out for the P4P800. I have Flashed the bios only when I thought it needed it (When windows serv.pack 2 came out) Funny thing about Asus when they have a update for the bios, the information is so vague that its not even worth reading usually it says ( added support for new processors ) but I did notice that the bios # were about 4 upgrades above the # have so I will check the bios # when I get the board back! I read some where that there wasn't any universal wiring standard for the USB and since the Axium was plugged into the front USB port ( the one that I had to hook up manually) maby I will plug it into one of the back ports just to be sure I didn't install the wires wrong But we have been using that port for other things without any trouble ( camera) Thx for the input and will keep my fingers crossed when I hook up the new motherboard

 

When I first saw the thread I thought "latch-up ", and am now almost certain that this is what's happening (despite not finding what I was after in 671 pages of Intel pdf... pheeeew!). A long time since I ran into this particular horror of a failure mechanism personally ('twas back in mid '80s when I was building bespoke kit for London University) but I remember it well, and everything fits. Like a glove.

So, to "test the water ", I tried Googling "southbridge latchup" or "southbridge latch-up "... yup - a whole load of hits about ASUS boards.

Out of the Google hits http://www.archivaty.com/forums/about21537.html has lots of good stuff but misses a salient point: it's far more likely that the transient is getting in through the 82801 USB overcurrent detection pin, rather than the data pins

==

if so: you could protect against this fault mechanism very easily, with a small network inline between the front USB socket and its connection to the motherboard.

The network will only work for transients coming "back at" the motherboard from the USB positive power wire, it would be unsuitable for the data wires. But then, reckon it's the USB power wire that's causing the trouble...

more detail soon

best wishes, HJ.

 

Very interesting reading (even though I don't understand it completely) I do get the jest of it. Sounds like I should only use the back USB ports or buy a add on card to be the sacrificial lamb! (maby thats why I don't have any trouble with the P4PE, none of my front usb ports are enabled ) and I am very interested in learning more! Thanks for the replies and all of your research

 

sorry to keep you - trouble downloading a manual from ASUS, all I get is "server error"

the back ports certainly seem a better bet - far fewer reports of trouble with these (I've only seen one such report with the back sockets but it's the same thing, fried southbridge - so back ports aren't immune from the problem). But is this perhaps just because people tend to plug more things in to the ones which are easiest to get at, the front ones?

Using an expansion card to provide the USB has got to be safer still.

more when I can - probably tomorrow, it's halfway through the night here! But this one's got me interested now & I want to get to the bottom of it...

best wishes, HJ.

 

Hugh Jarss I re- read the postings on the link you posted and I agree with you! I took off the front of my computer to look at the usb ports. I used a ohm meter to check the ground and it read 00.0 so the shield is grounded. Also there is 2 USB ports in the front and there is a small circuit board for them but in looking at the circuit it looks like there is 2 little things ( two pins with a light brown element in between ) that go from the red wire to the black wire on the circuit board, but that is only on one of the usb ports. the 2nd one doesn't have them

 

great stuff, sutsujsti

Have got the manual pdf now. The picture of the USB bracket seems to be more like a back panel bracket though. I was going to ask you to have a look under the cover (red arrow), with luck what you looked at is in a similar place on a front panel connector

...is almost certainly a ceramic capacitor (like this or this - both much magnified!!), which makes perfect sense fitted the way you describe it (although I would have put one on each USB port).

But there's something missing that should also be there! Please could you see if you can find a ferrite bead, which looks something like this (small, generally grey, usually just slides over the wire) it will have to be on the red wire between the USB socket and the brown component you mention to operate correctly (ie, not on the computer side)

(another ferrite bead) if not grey they are this dull metallic colour; this one's got a whole turn of wire on it

(another ferrite bead) this one's got 4 turns of wire and gives an idea of size

what you are looking for will probably just be slipped over the red wire, and ideally would be right at the back of the USB socket where the red wire connects to it


best wishes, HJ

 

Yes what you are looking at is a back panels USB/Joystick hookup. I am using it on the Asus P4PE motherboard, But not on the P4P800-E deluxe (the one that cooked the ICH5R chip) Also I tried to remove what looks like a cover on it and it is not, just a molded piece of plastic that holds the USB sockets.
I looked at your first pictures and that what they look like.The front USB connections are in a Antec SLK3700AMB case. I went to antec to see if they had a picture or anything that would help you see what I am talking about but no luck. I looked for the ferrite bead and couldn't find one anywhere on the wire or on the little circuit board. What I find a little strange is both of the ceramic capacitor are right next to each other on the same wire. Both go from the red wire to the black wire circuit. Almost like if the first one doesn't catch all of it the 2nd one will.

 

Well it finally came this afternoon (replacement motherboard P4P800-E Deluxe) it took about 10 days for Asus to fix it! not counting weekends and holidays! Its has a different serial # and a diff bios!. I installed it, and everything is back to normal except no over clocking yet. I figured I would give it sometime to get all the bugs worked out ( hopefully none) and I decided not to use the front usb ports! not that big of a deal to use the back ones