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Computer dies after some up-time

Discussion in 'PC Hardware' started by Christer, 2005/10/13.

  1. 2005/10/13
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    Hello all!

    The computer at our flying club was subjected to a few power failures. The power system was over loaded and fuses blew.

    It is running 24/7 but after that, it dies after some up-time. It may be anything from a day to several days but sooner or later, it doesn't respond to the mouse or keyboard. After a few hours cooling down, it can be restarted and functions for a while but eventually dies again.

    I restored a Ghost Image - no difference.

    I cloned the original hard disk to another and running from the clone - no difference.

    The next step is to get a new power supply but the cost versus the value of the computer is rather high.

    So, I wan't your opinions. Is it likely to be the power supply or will I be wasting our money?

    If it is likely to be the MB, CPU or RAM, then I consider the computer to be scrap.

    Thanks for your time,
    Christer
     
    Christer,
    #1
  2. 2005/10/13
    Steve R Jones

    Steve R Jones SuperGeek Staff

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    Power supply would be a good place to start. After that, you just have to replace things till you find the culprit.

    Have you consider just rebooting it every morning or evening to see if it'll stay up?
     
    Steve R Jones,
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  4. 2005/10/13
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    It is locked away in a separate room to which not all members have access. It is configured to not allow a limited user (the members) to shut down or reboot the system. After a power failure, the BIOS is set to assume the previous state when power is restored. If configured differently, I would have to do a weekly restore of a Ghost Image, due to kids 'having too much knowledge'. (The age of the kids may vary ...... ;) ...... !)

    Rebooting every day is not an option for two reasons:

    1) The club may not be visited for several days but when members do show up, they expect the computer to be running.

    2) Rebooting would probably not cure the problem, not even the symptoms since it requires a cooling down period before a restart is successful.

    Christer
     
    Christer,
    #3
  5. 2005/10/13
    jaylach

    jaylach Inactive

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    The above says thermal problem but where is the problem...

    1) Hold your hand over the exaust for the power supply. Is there air flow? If not it could just be a matter of putting in a new fan.

    2) Since you were compareing cost of the system worth verses a power supply I take it that it's an old system. Depending on the processor it could run for quite a while without the CPU fan running. This could also explaine why sometimes it will run for an hour and sometimes several. Could depend on the load being put on it.

    3) It is not impossible that the power outages could have caused a partial failure of any number of components makeing them more temperature sensitive.

    First step would be to check all the fans. Would also suggest installing a temperature monitor on it and leave it up on the screen. This could isolate what component is getting hot.
     
    jaylach,
    #4
  6. 2005/10/13
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    Yes, there is an air flow. I checked the CPU fan too, it runs and no visible dust clogging it.

    Everest says the CPU runs at 52 °C but BIOS says 56 °C (and has never had another opinion).

    Yes, an old-ish Packard Bell with an AMD Duron 800 MHz and 384 MB RAM (shared with video).

    Christer
     
    Christer,
    #5
  7. 2005/10/13
    jaylach

    jaylach Inactive

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    That tends to lead me to 3) It is not impossible that the power outages could have caused a partial failure of any number of components makeing them more temperature sensitive.

    Some components you can check by just removing... sound card, modem, 1 memory stick at a time if multiple, stuff like that. Take something out and try it. Other than that mayhaps the mother board.
     
    jaylach,
    #6
  8. 2005/10/13
    jaylach

    jaylach Inactive

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    Oh, I've never used one but have heard a variety of and many complaints on Duron processors.
     
    jaylach,
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  9. 2005/10/13
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    Sound and video are integrated, there is a PCI modem and a PCI NIC which I can take out or substitute. 128MB + 256MB RAM to test.

    It doesn't blue screen or hang, just does not respond (maybe that's hanging). No screen activity, no disk activity, nothing, well ...... :rolleyes: ...... the fans are still noisy!

    Christer
     
    Christer,
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  10. 2005/10/14
    sparrow

    sparrow Inactive

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    HI Christer,

    Two thoughts:

    Overheating seems unlikely to be from failing power supply, which would likely cause lower voltage/current. Guess some chip on the mobo is failing, probably due to aging and recent stress

    Hangups are most likely due to endless loop caused by memory circuit failing, since you have practically ruled out disk/software problem with ghost.

    Would suspect those two sources of trouble, both of which point to the mobo, expecially the northbridge, or RAM, which I'd test by substitution.
     
    Last edited: 2005/10/14
    sparrow,
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  11. 2005/10/14
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    I'll see what I can do this weekend. My schedule has been tightened and I'm not sure that I have the time.

    Thanks,
    Christer
     
    Christer,
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  12. 2005/10/16
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    Last wednesday (oct 12) I substituted an even older Win98 computer for the members, enabling me to run some tests on the iConnect. The iConnect was running on different peripherals (keyboard, mouse and monitor) and stood on the floor under a table. When I left on the twelfth, CPU temp was 52 °C. When I came back today, it was still running fine and responded to mouse and keyboard to wake up. CPU temp was still 52 °C and I don't know how to make tests when it's running OK.

    I reversed positions on the computers but being slightly superstitious, I swapped the monitors. (There had been the floating 'no signal' message on the monitor but I never saw it.)

    When the iConnect was back in its more confined space, CPU temp immediately rose to 55 °C. I rotated the case 90° (sideways into its place as opposed to 'rear end first' into its place). A few minutes later, CPU temp was back down at 52 °C.

    This seems to be one of those intermittent 'needle in the haystack' problems. Maybe I stirred it a bit to make it fall out ...... :confused: ...... time will tell.

    Christer
     
    Christer,
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  13. 2005/10/17
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    Hello Christer,

    Those temps seem quite high, especially if you are checking in the BIOS which means the system is at idle.

    I would remove the fan from the CPU and see if there was dust trapped down between the fins of the heatsink.

    Check the air intakes of the case for blockages.

    From my experience the power supply is the most likely part to fail on a system running 24/7. If the fan on the power supply is failing and it is the main cooling device for the case, it may explain the high temperatures.

    See if there is any difference by running without the cover on the case.

    Matt
     
    mattman,
    #12
  14. 2005/10/18
    DY-J jokool

    DY-J jokool Inactive

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    In my opinion I would check the IC of your board and the Capacitor if still funtioning because your power supply is ok.. Try testing all the capacitor and get the model of it then replace it maybe it will solve your problem ;)
     
    DY-J jokool,
    #13
  15. 2005/10/18
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    Hi Matt!

    I also think that the temperature is quite high but I don't trust the BIOS reading ...... :rolleyes: ...... it has never shown anything but 56°C. Where does Everest get its reading from? BIOS I think, which makes me suspicious of that reading too but at least, it varies.

    I have checked the items you mention but have not run it with the case open. I will do that next weekend.

    Hi DY-J jokool!

    There are signs of slight leaks in some of the capacitors but all voltages seem to be normal but ...... :confused: ...... it could cause instability (I think).

    Identifying the capacitors and replacing them would be a nice project ...... :p ...... when time permits. To be honest, I believe my time would be better spent putting in a few hours over time at work and take the extra money to the computer shop.

    Christer
     
    Christer,
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  16. 2005/10/18
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    If you have swollen or leaky capacitors I don't think that you could rely on any troubleshooting or remedial effects. The motherboard will not be functioning correctly.

    As far as the temperature readouts are concerned, it is best to rely on the BIOS readings, rather than those of a software program. The BIOS readings may themselves be wrong, this should be corrected by upgrading the BIOS...if a BIOS upgrade addressing this problem has been posted by the manufacturer.

    If the motherboard has leaky capacitors, you need to replace them or get another motherboard.

    Matt
     
    mattman,
    #15
  17. 2005/10/18
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    The capacitors aren't swollen, just a slight indication of a possible leakage. It could be residue glue or something else too.

    I'll check in on it during the next weekend. If it is still running ...... :p ...... I'll keep my hands in my pockets! If not ...... :( ...... I'll start by running it with the case open.

    Christer
     
    Christer,
    #16
  18. 2005/10/22
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    I checked in on it today. It was still running (~150 hours up-time) and responded nicely to keyboard and mouse. CPU temp at 50°C and HDD temp at 40°C. Hands remained in pockets!

    Christer
     
    Christer,
    #17

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