Need to Login to use network printer

Hello. I have a wired network with a Gateway XP machine and a Toshiba laptop using W98SE. These are tied together using a hub. I also have a Brother printer with a network connection built in. My problem is that I cannot log into the network from the laptop unless the Gateway is turned on and running. I would like to be able to print from my laptop directly to the printer without the Gateway running but cant even log in. Interestingly, I can log into the Gateway without the laptop running.

thanks
dan

 

Hi dan and welcome.

Does the printer have it's own IP address and subnet mask? If so and assuming those are in the same range as your PCs use, if you install the printer on the laptop as a local printer so you will be sure you have the drivers loaded (rather than using the ones from XP which the NT series machines are designed to do) then I'd expect setting it up on the 98 PC by IP address would allow printing even with the XP machine turned off.

My problem is that I cannot log into the network from the laptop

You are gonna have to help me out here. I understand logging on to a network (well sorta) when on a domain. That's a matter of using a logon name that is owned by the domain rather than a local user ID.

Your setup has to be a workgroup though since neither 9X nor XP can act as a domain controller so I'm not really sure what you mean.

 

I agree with newt.
I just had to deal with a similar situation and it turned out that the printer had previously been connected to one machine and shared via printer and file sharing.
When they changed it to connected to a print server; it would not be accessible unless you had both of these machines on because they had set up choosing to add a network printer instead of add a local printer and specify IP and port.

These are tied together using a hub.
You definitely need to make sure you specify an IP for the printer in this case. I am almost certain you did what I suspect and it is being picked up as a printer connected to the one single computer and shared rather than a printer connected to a network. You may want to consult your manual and make sure that a hub is going to be adequate and you do not need to have a router to do this.

Note that with just a hub, there is no network unless all the machines are running and one is hosting.

 

Newt and Oshwyn are right. If you've just got a hub (probably a FastEthernet 10/100 switch actually) and nothing is connecting you to the Internet then nothing is running a DHCP SERVER to assign IP Addresses and other important network settings.

You might be using that main GATEWAY machine as an Internet Gateway (no pun intended) and you may have activated ICS (Internet Connection Sharing). ICS will run a DHCP Service assuming the machine is on and ICS is in fact enabled. I don't believe you even actually have to be connected to the Internet for ICS - DHCP service to function.

Your printer may also be expecting automatic IP configuration from a DHCP Server. (or you could have configured it manually?) Turn on your GATEWAY (brand) Computer ... and then find out how to check the settings on your printer. There should be a Web Page that you can go to with a browser. If it's a Manual (Static IP Address) and not Automatic (by DHCP) then chances are other computers trying to access it need to have valid addresses on that network for it to work.

If a DHCP server is not reached, Windows XP uses either Automatic Private IP Addressing (APIPA) or the user configured alternate address. When APIPA is used, Windows XP TCP/IP uses an address in the APIPA IP address range (169.254.0.1 through 169.254.255.254) and the subnet mask is set to 255.255.0.0.

Reference: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/networking/learnmore/tips/autoconfig.mspx

* The problem here could be:

1.) Printer is not using APIPA because it is Manually Configured, perhaps something like 192.168.0.X Network Mask 255.255.255.0.

2.) 2nd computer when on will fail over to APIPA when it cannot find a DHCP Server (1st computer Gateway is not turned on with ICS enabled.)

3.) 2nd computer cannot talk to printer on LAN because it is not on the same subnet (network) as printer.

2nd Computer = IP Address 169.254.X.X
Printer = IP Address 192.168.0.X

Solution: Either Static IP everything (manually configure) or make sure that a DHCP Server is on at all times on the LAN.

LAN = Local Area Network. Which means everything that is plugged into your Hub/Switch.

* It's not very often that persons rely on APIPA, at least not on purpose. If you really don't have a reason for these computers to get on the Internet (that's doubtful and uncommon) and you really don't run a DHCP Server (or ICS as a DHCP Server), then it is possible to configure everything including the printer to automatic ... and let them fail over to APIPA. In which case things should work. It's a pretty big network subnet 65,534 possible computers. But this entire range is no doubt not at all routeable over the *real* Internet. It's surely dropped just like RFC 1918 private IP Space is by all Internet facing routers. So if you want to get on Internet at all, don't do APIPA.

 

Thanks everyone for the wise replys. Actually, both computers and the printer have static IP's that I have assigned. I think you are right though that my hub is not adequate to serve as a host and so the Gateway computer is handling that. I'll probably have to get a router to make it work.

Thanks again
dan

 

No problem on my end. I'm always glad to help. I still don't know what you meant on your original post when you talked about "logging in to the network" (a you referred to being able to, and not being able to). Mainly you say when the Gateway is off the Laptop cannot "log onto the network ". When the Gateway is on you can "log on to the network" from either the Laptop or the Gateway.

Can you describe exactly what it is that you do to "log on to the network "?

So far all you have describe is 3 things on a hub. You didn't mention any SERVER that requires logging in, and you didn't mention any Internet Access that you would want to access.

What network are you logging on to? And how are you doing that? What is not letting you log in? Do you mean that you can't log onto the desktop of Windows, as in it is asking you for a Username and Password?

 

Dan - this can be a very confusing area when you are new to networking but you are basically mixing in a few concepts that don't really belong together. We may have also thrown too much information at you.

Lets use XP, 98, Bro to describe the devices you have.

Hub/switch will allow any of the above to 'talk' if their settings are proper providing they are all plugged into ethernet ports on the hub/switch. I'll just call it a hub from here on out because for our purposes in this thread, the devices are identical.

Router is only needed if your devices require communications with devices that are NOT on your network. Internet access is most usual for home networks but XP/98/Bro do not need a router to talk. The "router" you hear about being used for home networks are really router/switch combination devices and the switch portion links the home devices while the router portion works with the modem for internet access.

Host many meanings but in this context, if your Bro was not a network printer (did not contain it's own network card so could not plug directly into the hub and could not have it's own IP address) then it would be connected to a PC and shared so others on the network could use it. The PC connecting directly to the printer would be it's host and other PCs could only print if the host PC was turned on and connected to the network.

At this point, we need some specific information from you.
- is the printer a real network printer or does it connect to a PC via the usual printer port?
- exactly what IP addresses and subnet mask are you using for your devices?
- from my original response (and a later question by aspicer), what exactly did you mean when you said, My problem is that I cannot log into the network from the laptop?