starting fresh with a new computer

After putting up with a defective OS (Win ME) on a defective computer for 4 years, I've finally splurged on a new Dell desktop. I followed the advice in another thread (http://windowsbbs.com/showthread.php?t=47620) as to what features to include, including getting 1 Gb of memory, a second 80 Gb hard drive (external - Iomega USB 2.0), and a full XP cd (as opposed to a "recovery back to factory settings" one).
I've been trying to read up on Windows XP in these forums as much as possible, because I really want to try to get this new computer running well/clean right from the get-go, but I'm looking for any additional advice anyone here might have to offer.
I have a few specific issues to ask about:
1) I plan to continue with AVG (free), SpywareBlaster, Spybot S&D, SpywareGuard, AdAware, and Zone Alarm (free). I believe the consensus is to turn off the Win XP built-in firewall (yes? no?), and I have made a note to myself on how to do this.
2) Oshwyn5 and BillyBob suggested partitions, and am wondering if I should do this with my hard drive before I progress any further (I am NOT well-versed in any of the technical aspects of computer functions). Would this be a good idea, or would it be overkill in light of the fact that I'm going to have an external second hard drive anyway?
If partitioning IS a good idea, I'll have to order software to help me accomplish this feat. Knowing that my hard drive will have to be wiped clean in order to create partitions, would I be able to start using the new computer in the meantime anyway, saving everything to the external drive? Or would I do best to curb my enthusiasm until I can partition first?
3) For those with Dell computers, do they come loaded with a bunch of extra stuff that I would do better without? Given the option, would I do better doing a clean installation of WinXP rather than using the OEM's version? (I'm not worried about running out of space on my hard drive or anything, I just don't like the idea of having unnecessary software cluttering up the picture in theory.)
4) For future reference, if I want to experiment with some new software on my computer, what's the recommended way to do this so that if I ultimately decide I don't want it, I can rid my system of all traces of it? Just set a System Restore point before installing it? I'm reluctant to count on System Restore, because it hasn't always worked for me in the past... Drive Imaging?
5) Is there any software to be purchased that can accomplish both partitioning as well as drive imaging, or will I need two separate programs for those?
Hmmm, browse and ye shall find... I've just come across some free partitioning & cloning programs online (http://www.thefreecountry.com/utilities/backupandimage.shtml) - does anyone have any experience with any of those? I'm willing to pay $$ if I need to, but given the expense of the new computer, if I can find something for free that is up to the job, I'd obviously prefer to go that route.

That's all the specifics I can think of right now. Any additional suggestions on how to start off on the right foot with a new computer would also be greatly welcomed!
As always, thanks for the help/time/advice/suggestions!

PS - Jaylach, I think I'll experiment with taking apart this old computer, so that next time I might actually be able to build one for myself, as you suggested.

 

Hi Rebbeca,

To start you off:

I would start fresh and install XP, one issue is My Web Search assistant:
http://www.windowsbbs.com/showthread.php?t=47698&highlight=compdude

If you do that, you can partition the HD using the XP cd:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=313348 I started a thread on how big the OS only partition should be and I ended making it 12 Gigs. Since than I've expanded it to 20 gig because I doubled the size of my 2nd HD. That thread: http://www.windowsbbs.com/showthread.php?t=40176&highlight=ideal

System Restore is a short term backup for the OS and as such I've had no major issues with it. To make sure that you can uninstall software down the road use Total Uninstall http://www.martau.com/

If you're going to use a 3rd party firewall, that usually shuts WF off, or shut it off yourself. For this or any other questions on how - remember to use the Help and Support applet on the start menu. Lot's of info there that folks seem to overlook.

The drive imaging/cloning software that I use http://www.apricorn.com/product_details.php?ID=381 never had a problem and is straight forward.

Also remember that if the drives on your old system are still good, you can re use them as external drives for additional backups using a drive cage connected via usb.

Regards - Charles

 

Thanks for the feedback and all the useful links, Charles!
One question about installing WinXP from scratch on my new Dell (which I don't have yet - maybe I'll be able to figure out my own answer when it comes):
If the computer comes loaded with additional software, e.g., for picture editing or something, would I be able to get that back if I get rid of the OEM installation? In other words, does Dell include a cd for reinstallation of any additional "goodies" they might have preloaded on the system? I ordered the full XP cd, so I won't be able to restore the computer to its "factory settings" (not that I would want to!).
Thanks!

 

Yes they do, last time I saw a new Dell - a 2400 - in August, each of the apps that are pre-loaded has a cd for it.

Of course, check.

BTW, what model did you get.

 

rebecca--

Actually you will be able to restore to factory settings. Dell PC's have a partition on the hard drive containing the files to do this.
http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/kb/en/document?dn=1090151
I do not think this partition is wiped by a fresh install of Windows, but you can delete that partition if you want the space.

 

I got a Dimension 5100 with:
Intel Pentium 4 processor 521 with HT Technology (2.8 GHz)
1GB DDR2 SDRAM at 400MHz
128MB ATI Hyper memory PCI-Express X16 Radeon X300 SE
80 GB Serial ATA Hard Drive
3.5in Floppy Drive
16X DVD-ROM and 16X DVD+/-RW

Don't have a clue what a lot of that means; other than the increased memory, I think everything else was the default selection for this model.

The box from Dell has arrived, but so far all I've done is pulled out the papers and CDs in the top of the box - I don't want to actually unpack the computer yet, so that I'm not tempted to start doing anything on it until I know what exactly what it is I'm doing!
I've spent the morning reading up on "how to partition and format a hard disk in Windows XP" (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;313348), and I'm feeling a little overwhelmed/dazed right now.
First of all, I'm supposed to make sure that the computer is configured to start from the CD-ROM drive. How do I go about verifying this?
Secondly, NTFS or FAT? From my readings in these forums, it seems like NTFS is the way to go, but item #10 in the link above (microsoft support page) has me confused - it says, "If the partition is larger than 2 GB, the Windows Setup program uses the FAT32 file system ". Does that mean NTFS is not an option, or are they talking about FAT32 vs. FAT16 (and is this all stuff I need to know about in order to proceed?)?
I think all I really want to do is set things up so that my OS is in a partition of its own, as a precautionary measure to save me from myself. If Welshjim is right, and there's already a partition to restore the system to its factory settings, it sounds prudent to leave that as is, as I don't anticipate running short of space on the hard drive anyway. So that would give me two partitions, right?
Right now, when I click on "My Computer ", I see: 3-1/2 floppy (A), Local Disk (C), and Compact Disc (D). Say I have the above two partitions - one which I will create for my OS, and the Dell restoration one - will they show up as subdivisions of my Local Disk (C), or will they have letters of their own? The space that I don't allocate to a particular partition, where will that be?
Does it sound like I'm getting myself into more than should be tackling?
I also got an iomega external hard drive (USB 2.0). Should I fiddle around with partitioning on that before I experiment with the process on my new computer itself? Do people partition external hard drives?

A separate question here: I specifically ordered a full XP cd with my order, but I see that the Windows XP disk I received says "Operating System - Already installed on your computer - Reinstallation CD ". That doesn't sound like a full XP cd to me, in which case the whole idea of my making a partition for a clean installation of XP is an exercise in futility... I guess I'll call Dell as soon as I get offline here and see what they say.

In the meantime, any help &/or comments on partitioning are welcome!
Thanks,

 

Hi Rebbeca,

Starting from the bottom,

I specifically ordered a full XP cd with my order, but I see that the Windows XP disk I received says "Operating System - Already installed on your computer - Reinstallation CD ". That doesn't sound like a full XP cd to me
It is the XP cd - Dell labels it that. To assure yourself of that, pop it into the old computer and explore it.

I also got an iomega external hard drive (USB 2.0). Should I fiddle around with partitioning on that before I experiment with the process on my new computer itself? Do people partition external hard drives?
I don't think that its important to partition that drive unless you have a very specific reason to do so and you may not be able to partition that drive anyway with the XP cd either because it's a USB drive or because you're not installing the OS onto it - but I'm not sure. Others can maybe address that.

Right now, when I click on "My Computer ", I see: 3-1/2 floppy (A), Local Disk (C), and Compact Disc (D). Say I have the above two partitions - one which I will create for my OS, and the Dell restoration one - will they show up as subdivisions of my Local Disk (C)
You won't see the restoration partition - it's hidden. you'll see C and the one you create. If you make the new partition a primary partition, and there is no reason not to, it'll be D, with the ROMS coming after.

To answer the file system question - NTFS.

I'm supposed to make sure that the computer is configured to start from the CD-ROM drive. How do I go about verifying this?
I'm sure it is configured that way now. But if by some chance its not - to get into the BIOS, tap the Delete key on bootup > Boot options (headings on top) and you'll see the boot order. The ROM's should be first.

Regards - Charles

 

I wish more people would take the time to read up and ask questions like you did, Rebecca. Did you get XP Home or Pro?

Johanna
(BTW, excellent advice, as usual, Jim & Charles!)

 

rebecca--I am going to leave it to those more knowledgeable to answer many of your questions, but here are a few comments.
These comments are based on my experience with a new Dell bought about a year ago. So somethings may have changed.
As shipped from the factory, Dell has already installed the Operating System (and its associated programs like Windows Firewall, Internet Explorer and Outlook Express), and several other programs. Some of the programs are only trials for perhaps three months, like Norton AntiVirus and Cyberlink, and some, like Sonic, are somewhat cutback versions, but perfectly adequate to get started and until you know you want something better.
After starting the new PC, the only things you really have to do are
1) Get an ISP for internet connection
2) Get an email service provider, which usually is your ISP, but you will have to set up an OE account
3) Go to Windows Update and get the latest Critical Updates. Actually, this month there were none, so you may not be offered any.
But I would suggest that you also download and install a better Firewall (like Zone Alarm--Free) and some antispyware programs like AdAware and/or Spybot and SpywareBlaster. The first and last run in the background. The Firewall requires no maintenance, and the only maintenance Spyware Blaster requires is to update its data files every ten days or so. The two antispyware programs, however, also require updating the reference files and in addition you must run scans with them from time to time.
There are links to all these programs here
http://forums.g4tv.com/messageview.cfm?catid=64&threadid=192397
Do not be confused by all the other programs in the list. With time you may want some of them.
And if you install another Firewall, you should disable the Windows Firewall from Control Panel|Windows Firewall. The third party firewalls are better but you should only have one Firewall running.
Now there are some less necessary/urgent things you could do. You may not want some of the programs offered by Dell. Some, like an offer of a 3-6 month trial of AOL will not have been installed. There is only a shortcut to the offer. If you know you do not want the AOL trial, for example, you can just delete the AOL offer. However do not delete a program which Dell has installed. Rather uninstall from Control Panel|Add/Remove Programs. .
Some people feel, because of the programs you may not want, and therefore will want to uninstall or delete, that your Registry gets cluttered with all the deleting and uninstalling and they recommend a reformat and a "clean" reinstallation of Windows. And I know you want to have your OS on separate partition from your personal data.
However, with a Dell, I am not sure that is such a good idea unless you know what you are doing. I think the Registry is robust enough to take some uninstalling and deleting, assuming you do that properly.
So my advice, until you are more confident, is to not fuss with the Windows CD. If Dell said they sold you a full install CD, then it should be such. You can always check with Dell on that. I agree it is very desireable to have a full install CD (in case you have to Repair your Windows installation), but not for the purpose of reformatting a brand new PC.
An even more pertinent reason for my recommendation is because you will find Dell has already filled your hard drive with four active partitions. Four active partitions is all that are permitted on a drive. (You will find, in coded form, partitions for PC Restore, a Diagnostic Tool to be used if you have to phone Dell for help, a small (about 47 KB) mystery partition and for C:\ .) That means you will have to delete/merge one or more of them to install Windows on a partition separate from your personal data. That is not something for someone with less than full confidence to do.
You can have a look at your partitions from Control Panel|Adminstrative Tools|Computer Management|Disk Management. You will be told if these partitions are FAT or NTFS. I am sure the C:\ partition already is formatted as NTFS, so you do not have fuss with that. If you do not have four active partitions on the hard drive then Dell has changed their way of operation, and partitioning for a separate install of Windows may be a little easier.
I am sure I have forgotten something, and also that others will disagree, but those are my suggestions.
Do tell us what version of Windows XP you are running.
P.S. Your external USB hard drive probably will not be bootable. It is really only a nice, big storage drive. However, the upside of that is that if you frequently and conscientiously backup your personal data to that drive, the fact that you have not put your Operating System on a partition C:\ separate from your personal data will not be so important.

 

Hi Jim,

An even more pertinent reason for my recommendation is because you will find Dell has already filled your hard drive with four active partitions.
When I put together a 2400 last month - C was one big partition and of course the hidden one which explorer ignores. And I don't see why Dell would do that.

So, it'll be interesting to see what Rebbeca finds.

Regards - Charles

 

charlesvar--What I know about partitions would fit in a thimble.
C: on my Dimension 4600 as received from Dell was only one of four active partitions on the hard drive. The other three programs/partitions mentioned were also on the same drive (and I stupidly had only ordered one internal hard drive). As you say, those three are hidden if you just look in My Computer. But using WinXP's Disk Management or Partition Magic, all four partitions are there. It was only when I finally bit the bullet and deleted PC Restore and the Dell Diagnostic Utility that I was able to create another active partition on the hard drive. (I figured the PC Restore thing was pretty out of date and that I probably could resurrect the Diagnostic Utility from the CD provided by Dell if needed.)
Of course Dell may have changed that setup. I would think a lot of people would have been unhappy with it.
As you say Rebecca may be able to tell us.

 

Hi Jim,

I didn't try partitioning the drive on the 2400, good to know.



Rebecca,

Keep forgetting to mention that a good investment is a excellent XP manual. The one have had for the last 3 years is:

Microsoft Windows XP Inside/out by Ed Bott and Carl Siechert. The latest edition takes SP2 into account.

Regards - Charles

 

1) I plan to continue with AVG (free), SpywareBlaster, Spybot S&D, SpywareGuard, AdAware, and Zone Alarm (free). I believe the consensus is to turn off the Win XP built-in firewall (yes? no?), and I have made a note to myself on how to do this.
Yes, it is best to have only one firewall enabled, just like you should have only one antivirus. Haveing more than one often leads to big problems such as automatic updaters and windows update not working. ZA free versus XP SP2 firewall is pretty much a toss up, it really depends on what you are comfortable with. ZA gives you more information and controls.

2) Oshwyn5 and BillyBob suggested partitions, and am wondering if I should do this with my hard drive before I progress any further (I am NOT well-versed in any of the technical aspects of computer functions). Would this be a good idea, or would it be overkill in light of the fact that I'm going to have an external second hard drive anyway?
If partitioning IS a good idea, I'll have to order software to help me accomplish this feat. Knowing that my hard drive will have to be wiped clean in order to create partitions, would I be able to start using the new computer in the meantime anyway, saving everything to the external drive? Or would I do best to curb my enthusiasm until I can partition first?
The drive on which the OS is installed, well you can only repartition it by either doing a clean install from an install CD or by using partition magic. External drive, well you should be able to repartition that before you start using it either with its setup software or with XP disk management from within windows. How large is your installed hard drive? As noted it seems that you only have an install disk for additional software and drivers, not an XP install cd. It sounds like you have a hidden invalid non dos partition on your hard drive with an image file of the drive as it was when it left the factory ( a recovery partition). This is very common these days. I really urge you not to repartition this , since if you do things incorrectly you could wipe that image partition and not be able to recover without ordering a full install cd from Dell.
3) For those with Dell computers, do they come loaded with a bunch of extra stuff that I would do better without? Given the option, would I do better doing a clean installation of WinXP rather than using the OEM's version? (I'm not worried about running out of space on my hard drive or anything, I just don't like the idea of having unnecessary software cluttering up the picture in theory.)
Do not really worry about this. With 1GB of RAM you really do not have to worry. XP does not have the limitation of one 64KB page of RAM for system resources so it does not run out of them. It has an excellent memory manager which can handle different programs at different priority. In fact, it is fairly easy to shift a given program to lower priority so that it can still run in the background and not affect a program you want to have higher priorty.
Powermenu from tummy even adds this to the right click context menu (along with other things like always on top, minimize to system tray, and transparency of a given window )

4) For future reference, if I want to experiment with some new software on my computer, what's the recommended way to do this so that if I ultimately decide I don't want it, I can rid my system of all traces of it? Just set a System Restore point before installing it? I'm reluctant to count on System Restore, because it hasn't always worked for me in the past... Drive Imaging?[/blue]
Back up important data to your removable drive and if you are going to experiment, first make sure you have all data backed up. Second create a restore point. Basically this will make sure that if any system files or registry settings are changed, the ones you have will be backed up. System restore is not a magic time machine, it will not restore deleted data, but it can get the system back to a stable operational level if you mess something up.


5) Is there any software to be purchased that can accomplish both partitioning as well as drive imaging, or will I need two separate programs for those?
I believe Symantec is offering a bundle of Ghost and partition magic. This would be the best option.


I ordered the full XP cd[/blue] good move. You will still have the recovery partition/ image. But this gives you a second option. At this point I would say it is safe for you to repartition the drive with partition magic.
Basically your first step would be to partion the OS to a 20-30GB partition at the beginning and the free space to another at the end. Then you can carve it up into manageable size partitions.


A separate question here: I specifically ordered a full XP cd with my order, but I see that the Windows XP disk I received says "Operating System - Already installed on your computer - Reinstallation CD ". That doesn't sound like a full XP cd to me, in which case the whole idea of my making a partition for a clean installation of XP is an exercise in futility... I guess I'll call Dell as soon as I get offline here and see what they say. This is not and XP install cd. The XP install CD , if explored will have an i386 folder with a bunch of .cab files. It will also be labled Microsoft Windows XP and have a holographic lable.

Right now, when I click on "My Computer ", I see: 3-1/2 floppy (A), Local Disk (C), and Compact Disc (D). Say I have the above two partitions - one which I will create for my OS, and the Dell restoration one - will they show up as subdivisions of my Local Disk (C), or will they have letters of their own? The space that I don't allocate to a particular partition, where will that be?
When you carve out the new partitions (with partion magic), C: will remain the boot partition, the one where the OS is now. But then you will create new "logical" drives D: E: etc. These normally will be listed before your CDROM, but you can rename them later.

 

Hi Oshwyn,

This is not and XP install cd. The XP install CD , if explored will have an i386 folder with a bunch of .cab files. It will also be labled Microsoft Windows XP and have a holographic lable.
Rebecca has the full XP cd from Dell, the "factory setting" partition notwithstanding, Dell has always had this partition on their shipped systems. This partition BTW is accessed by the F12 key FWIW.

In order not to have to partition the drive afterwards - I advised her to clean install right at the beginning, create a OS partition using XP's capacity to do so without having to buy Partition Magic, and then load the Dell software that was wanted, not foisted.

Regards - Charles

 

Wow, thanks for all the feedback! Windows XP Home edition is what I have.
I'm going to call Dell tomorrow (my question about the Windows XP cd that came with my computer can only be addressed by the Monday-Friday customer service people!), and see if I can find out for sure about whether it's a full installation disk or not.
In the meantime, I'm printing out the new info you've all provided me with, so I can mull it over this evening. I'll post back again in the next day or two, after having had a chance to digest it (and probably coming up with more questions!)
Thank you so much for all your help!!!

 

Finally got through to the right party at Dell (you'd think Canada was in a different solar system or something, trying to locate the appropriate help folks for us up here!), and was told that, as Charles said, the disk is a full install WinXP Home Edition disk, "reinstallation CD" label notwithstanding.
I explained to "the Dell guy" what I wanted to do, and he told me I would have to delete the hidden partition first, then create a new partition for my clean installation of the OS. [I'm afriad I wasn't on the ball enough to remember to ask how many partitions are already in existence on my new system, but the guy just mentioned having to delete the hidden one with the Dell installation of WinXP.] He said to tap F12, tell the computer to boot from the CD drive, and follow instructions from there.
I'm going to have to borrow another monitor as I do this, so that I can still access help here if I need it at the same time - probably won't be able to get one until tomorrow...
Even though I'm still not at all sure I'm up to the job, I think I really want to try this partitioning thing. The Dell guy told me I could call back if I needed help reinstalling drivers and such afterwards, so I feel somewhat reassured/emboldened by that.
So does the info from Dell sound right? That I have to delete the hidden partition before doing a clean installation of Windows XP?
Thanks for your patience!
BTW - if the partition is hidden, how do I find it in order to delete it?

 

Rebecca,

I have a Dell Dimension 2400 that I recently had problems with that Dell was unable to resolve. Their advice to me was the same as yours; delete the partition, create a new one then reinstall.

Being the skeptic I am, I of course did not believe them. I figured, worst case, if it didn't work, then I would follow Dell's advice. Nothing to lose. So I used the "reinstallation CD" and attempted to reinstall the OS. The install went very smoothly, with no problems. In fact, most of my OS settings were intact when I rebooted! Not only did it fix my problem, but my PC seems to run better since the reinstall.

The only caveat is you will need to reinstall all the updates/patches from Microsoft.

Good Luck!

 

Hi Rebecca,

Control Panel > Performance & Maintenance > Admin Tools > Computer Management > and under Storage > Disk Management.

You'll see the partitions > right click on the partition > delete. It will not allow you to do anything to the boot partition which C, so you can't make a mistake.


Hey Compdude - thanks

Regards - Charles

 

My experience, as mentioned, was that there were three "hidden" partitions placed on the hard drive by Dell at the factory, in addition to the C: partition. If Rebecca has the same three hidden partitions (PC Restore, Diagnostic and small (~46KB)mystery partition), wonder which one Dell is suggesting be deleted.

 

Hi Jim,

there were three "hidden" partitions placed on the hard drive by Dell at the factory, in addition to the C: partition.

That'll be interesting to see

There isn't any point in keeping any of them. Per your experience, you say you couldn't create a new partition(s) until you got rid of yours.

By the time I got around to creating the OS and data partitions, I did that on a replacement drive, Dells original drive was re-used as an external USB storage drive.

Regards - Charles