Network setup seemed too simple

I have an XP machine and a 98SE machine, and they are both hooked up through a DLink router. All I wanted was to share the Internet connection, so I ran the Network Setup Wizard on the XP machine, said "no" to file and print sharing, and let the wizard do its thing. It then asked me to create a Network Wizard startup disk for the other machine, which I did. I put it in the 98Se machine, ran it, and it set everything up. Both machines show in the network and both connect to the Internet. I have Windows Firewall activated on my XP machine.

Do I need a separate firewall on the 98 machine or will the Windows Firewall on the XP machine protect both via the router? Did I do everything I was supposed to do? It seemed so easy that I figured I must have not done something right.

 

Yes you will need a separate Firewall on the 98 machine.

The Router acts as an incoming firewall but has no effect on the outgoing.

BillyBob

 

Thanks for the info on the firewall. Also, what is NAT and how do I know if I need it or if it was automatically set up during the Network Setup Wizard?

 

NAT = Network Address Translation. The NAT PC replaces the client PCs IP address with its own. All incoming and outgoing traffic is "translated" in this way. The router is doing this with all traffic it sees.

I'm not sure why you are using Internet Connection Sharing (ICS). The Win98 PC should be able to connect directly to the router and then the internet. ICS is unnecessary.

DRD

 

That is a good question.

You should be able to go to Control Panel, Internet Options, connections and set the Lan Settings on each machine to Automatic.

At least that is how my three machines have things set.

BillyBob

 

Are you saying that I didn't need to run the Network Setup Wizard at all if I wasn't going to do file and print sharing? Is there a downside to the way I have done it? I didn't purchase the router - it came free when with the fiber optic service from Verizon, so I didn't set it up. The technician who came out to install the CAT5 line for it did all the router setup. Would I have to install the software for the router on the Win98 machine if I hooked it up directly to the router as you are suggesting? Sorry for so many questions, but this is an area of computers that I know very little/nothing about.

 

With a Router the only thing SHARED is the connection from the Router to the Internet itself. Unless I am wrong that is the whole idea behind a Router so you can get more than one machine online at a time. And no one certain machine has to be on at any time to do it.

In other words " NO need for ICS. " No need for the Network Setup Wizard .

In order to do this you would need a Cat5 cable from each machine going directly to the Router.

You have a D-Link Router whereas I have a Linksys system so yours may be a bit different.

The only things I have ever done is setup the Router and cabling and the set the LAN setting on each machine as I mentioned and go. The Router takes care of addressing. And each machine has its own IP address asigned by the Router. But of course you do need to setup the connection data on each machine.

Although you still need File and Printer Sharing if you do wish to share things between the machine. Which is now separate from the Internet. I normally do not keep anything shared between the machines. Well, not now anyway since I installed a Network Printer which is plugged into the Router.

The Router keeps the LAN and the Internet separated.

BillyBob

 

So should I try to undo what I have done? And, if so, how would I do that? I appreciate all your help with this.

 

Right now I suggest that you wait for more info/help from others. Because what I did may work for me but may not for you.

If you have OEM machines ( like, DELL, HP etc. ) things may have to be done differently.

It may depend on the Brand of devices also.

But, as I mentioned before, all I did was plug things in and go. But I also have a strange feeling that I missed something somewhere. It has been a LONG time since I messed with this stuff. And one forgotten step can create more problems than there were in the first place. :

I have been that route too

BillyBob

 

One thing that I can think of right now it that going from machine directly to the Router uses a different type of cable.

I believe what you are using right now by going machine to machine uses what is called a Crossover Cable..

Machine to Router uses a plain Cat5 cable. Which is straight throught I THINK.

BillyBob

 

Clarification. How many LAN ports does your router have? If more than one, connect both XP & 98 directly to the router. Or is this what you already have? How is your cabling set up now?

If you have multiple ports, you can configure Win98 to connect directly. It should be a bit faster and will not be a performance load on XP. I'm not sure about a specific procedure to remove ICS from Win98. I'll check for something, but you could probably just remove all networking, reboot and then re-install. On XP, disable ICS.

DRD

 

Further clarification.

#1-I fully agree.

It will be MUCH faster and smoother and will not even need to know that the XP machine exists. And both machines can be on the Internet at the same time. I have had a many as 5 on at the same time. ( I also have a 4 port switch. )

But as NetDoc says . It does depend on the number of ports on the Router. I myself have yet to see a Router with less than 4 ports.

BillyBob

 

The router is a DLink DI-604, and has 4 ports. Both the XP machine and the Win98 machine are hooked directly to the router, each with its own cable. My XP machine was set up first, and the tech who installed the fiber optic internet connection configured the router on that machine. After a couple of days, I wanted to allow the Win 98 machine to utilize this high speed connection, so I checked on the Verizon Help page and it said to run the Network Setup Wizard on the XP machine first, and then make a start up disk to run on the Win98 machine. That is what I did, and all it asked me was the workgroup name and if I wanted to enable file and print sharing, which I said "no ".

As far as how to how to remove all networking and disable ICS from the XP machine like you have suggested, I don't have the slightest idea.

 

I am not familiar with the router in question. Bit I will guess a bit here. And I know that NetDoc will help us out here.

The router is a DLink DI-604, and has 4 ports. Both the XP machine and the Win98 machine are hooked directly to the router, each with its own cable.

Ok there. Good the hear the two direct cables.

My XP machine was set up first, and the tech who installed the fiber optic internet connection configured the router on that machine.

OK to here ( maybe ) Did the Tech set the NIC on the XP machine for auto-addresssing ?

Did the Tech make sure DHCP was enabled ?

Did the Tech either show you how to setup the Router for multiple machines or at least leave you some paperwork ?

After a couple of days, I wanted to allow the Win 98 machine to utilize this high speed connection, so I checked on the Verizon Help page and it said to run the Network Setup Wizard on the XP machine first, and then make a start up disk to run on the Win98 machine. That is what I did, and all it asked me was the workgroup name and if I wanted to enable file and print sharing, which I said "no ".

In your case either me or Verizion is WRONG. They say Setup Wizard. I say not needed.

I am not 100% sure but I do not think you need File and Print sharing for the Internet as you are not really SHARING anything. For each machine to have acces to the other YES, you do need File and Print sharing. I do have it enables because I do tranfer files from one machine to the other occasionaly. But normally I do not have anything set for sharing.

You do need to make sure they are in the Same Workgroup if you wish to share anything between the machine but not for the Internet.

Unless something is different there, all you should need to do
1-is set the NIC in the 98 machine to Auto Address.
2-Enter you IP connection name and password. Which will be the SAME as the XP machine.
3-Go fo it.

Bottom line.
The Internet of 98 machine should have NOTHING to do with the XP machine.

And while setting up the 98 machine I would have the XP machine shut down.

BillyBob

 

I believe I forgot something.

Each PC has to have an individual name.

And the Auto addressing bit is taken care of through The LAN section of Internet Options.

BillyBob

 

This should actually be a bit easier than described. I waited until I checked a machine at home to be sure I was giving the right advice.

First, run a simple test. Unplug the network cable for XP and try to surf the Internet with Win98. Be sure to go to sites that you do not normally visit, just to be sure you are not being served by the cache. Win98 should work and if so you do not need to do anything.

If Step 1 works, go to Start > Control Panel > Network Connections and right-click the Local Area Connection to access the properties. On the Advanced tab clear the check box for ICS. This will disable ICS and Win98 will now connect directly.

If Step 1 does not work post back here with any error messages.

DRD

P.S. On Win98, run Start > Run > Winipcfg. Release & renew.

 

OK - I unplugged the XP cable and I was still able to get to the Internet on the 98 machine.

I cannot find where you are talking about to clear a check box for ICS. I can't find ICS anywhere on either the 98 machine or the XP machine.

But, there is now an Internet Gateway Connection Icon in my Network Connections on the XP machine that wasn't there earlier. And, also, the connection icon in the tray on the 98 machine has always said "Internet Gateway Connected" when I mouse over it.

 

If I am correct about having a separate cable from each machine to the Router, what I would suggest right now on both machines would be to go to Control Panel.

Open Internet Options.

Select the Connections Tab

Then select Lan Settings and make sure Auto Detect settings is checked.
This should override anything that has been done.

Again, this is the only thing I have ever done to get any machine to connect to the Internet via the Router. And I have used OSs as far back as the original 98.

Also I cannot find anything in relation to ICS either.

But also I now recalled that I tried a D-Link Router some time back and did not have good luck with it at all. Put the old Linksys back and no problems.

BillyBob

 

I figured out why this was showing up on my XP machine - I had accidently clicked on the item that says "Show icons for networked UPnP devices ". When I did that, my D-Link Router showed up in My Network Places, and the Internet Gateway showed up in My Network Connections. Should I have those showing or not showing?

Also, the 98 machine's speed is MUCH lower than the XP machine. Could this have anything to do with the cpu processor speed or is it only determined by how the computer is connected? The XP machine is showing consistently at a little over 5Mbps when I run the Speed Test, and the 98 machine is anywhere from 1.9Mbps to 3.2Mbps.

 

The slower speed can be attributed to CPU, Network Card, OS and a host of other issues. It will even vary from time to time.

DRD