Firing up replaced hard drive

Hi, I need a little help , Please, I have replaced the hard drive ( not new) and cant get it to fire up. I have set it to master and have a Boot disc from the old one ( same PC). It all goes well as instructions from Net,
It starts off OK and goes as normal untill the Windows 98 screen, it just flashes and then goes back to the writing and the last line at the bottom is C:\>. I think we may have to change this but with what. In the process checking the help,it say's to " partition "& format the drive, we were told it had been formated when we bought it????, can't find a mention of that any where.
It is a s/h H/Drive and there is no instructions with it. If some one can guide me on from there it would be great.
Cheers Des,

 

Hi Des

what make is this new (s/h) HDD pls? (full type number would be useful if you can read it off the drive...)

HDD manufacturers provide tools (typically on a floppy disk), with which you can copy the contents from an old drive

if you haven't got the floppy to do this, can generally download something which works from the internet - it's a good idea to use the "toolkit" from the same manufacturer as the HDD you are copying onto

==

generally, when fitting a replacement HDD, you would partition and format anyway (afresh, even if the drive has already been formatted)

after doing this you can copy the contents of your old drive onto the new(er) one

to copy the files over, you set the new(er) HDD as master and the old one as slave

NB some types of HDD have different jumper settings for "master with slave present" and "master which is the only drive on this ribbon cable" - if this is the case you will have to change the jumpers again if you disconnect the old drive later on

==

when you say

do you mean the Windows98 startup floppy, or something belonging to the old HDD pls?

best wishes, HJ

 

When you see the C:\>, and if you were to type in "win" and press Enter, what happens?

 

Hi, fella's,
HJ, I will get the no's tomorrow ( PC not here) & Yes we made a start up disc before we fitted the other HDD. (Windows 98 SE.)
Mark.. I will try your suggestion in the morning & let you know.
Thanks Again Des.

 

Hi. fella's.
HJ. I got the info from the HDD.
SEAGATE ST3127GA ( CF1276A) 2482 1275MB. We tried again today , typed in FDISK at the a:/> prompt and it ran through great untill it wanted to partition it and it came up that it was already partitioned and it said to press ESC to get out but it locks up and have to switch off and restart.?????

Mark. When you start it without the Boot disc it runs through till the C:/> comes up & and I tried WIN but just said bad command, also tried putting the disc in and typing fdisc but still the same. We have got a heap of info of the Net but following their instructions still ends up the same. ???
Regards Des,

 

Hi Des

thanks for getting the model number

hmmm, don't like the sound of that very much...

...if the drive's already formatted it would have been partitioned first (have to partition before formatting), but locking up trying to get out of FDISK isn't good

==

better check a bit about what you've done so far, and what we are trying to end up with...

- have you been into the BIOS and got it to autodetect the HDD OK (so that it shows the correct capacity of 1275MB) pls?

- are we aiming to copy the files from the old HDD onto the new(er) one, or is it a fresh install of Windows that you want to do?

==

another thing which would help us to know: what make of computer are you putting this HDD into (because if it's a Compaq, for example, they're tricksy, they use a hidden setup partition - you can generally get by without one, but it can mean doing a few things differently)

best wishes, HJ.

 

Hi, HJ. No we have not been into set-up yet. So we will give that a try 2morrow,
We are doing a clean install ( hope to ) of W98SE etc,
It is a locally made up unit "ARCON Intel Inside" & the old HDD was 3.0 G .
Since we have been fiddling with the HDD's the problem with the old one seems to have gone. ( when you started it up it told you a incorrect shutdown( even when done correctly) and it would start " Scandisc ) run to about 93% and then stop for about 20mins and then when you trid to get it going it would jam and we had to boot it,
Now it just starts up as it should ?????. But I want to get this HDD to go for the experience.
Thanks again for you time . Cheers Des.

 

I have taken HDs from one machine ( local/self ) built and used them in another.

But I NEVER allowed the machine to boot to the new HD the first time.

I set them to master and BOOT to the FLOPPY then run Windows setup. OF course I have to watch to make sure Windows does go into the existing folder. Especially if it is in other than the default C:\Windows. If it is in the default Windows I can just let Windows do its' thing.

In my case I can run setup from the HD ( after booting to the Floppy ) as I have the setup files on the D: partition on all machines.

BillyBob

 

Hi, B.B. . How do we get it to boot to the floppy, when we switch ( with disc in ) on it goes on till it comes to A:\> then we type in FDISK.& it goes on as I have described before, end with lockup.?
If we turn it on without the disc it runs through till it comes to C:\> .and nothing we have typed in has got any sense out of it. Happy for any info. Thanks Des.

 

How do we get it to boot to the floppy, when we switch ( with disc in ) on it goes on till it comes to A:\> then we type in FDISK.& it goes on as I have described before, end with lockup.?

Something is going on there that I either can not think of ( or can't remember ) It has been YEARS since I used FDISK

Put the Floppy disk in and start the machine. When it boots to the A:\ type C: and hit enter.

When C:\ comes up type in DIR and hit enter. This will ( or should ) give you a list of folders on the C: drive.

OR

If we turn it on without the disc it runs through till it comes to C:\>

Type DIR and hit enter here.

IF by chance the WINDOWS folder shows up, something was not install properly or at all.

Again I must admit that is has been YEARS since I have messed with this end of Windows. And if I mess with my Wifes' machine and mess it up she will mess with me BIG TIME.

BillyBob

 

Hi Des

glad you are going for the clean install

is what you would expect if the HDD has been partitioned and formatted. No OS on C:

but as you are going to booting from the floppy to do the install this is no problem!

BB's suggestion of doing the DIR is good because even if no files are found, it should tell you the amount of spare space on the drive - so we can check the computer is seeing the hard drive size correctly

If no files are found and you reckon the size is showing OK, go on to try with scandisk - like this:

- boot from floppy, choose 2) Start Without CDROM support
- when A:\> arrives, type SCANDISK C: (enter)
- when asked if you want the surface scan, say Yes

If you can get through that without it showing up problems, then you know that you can use the HDD reliably. So, go on to install Windows98:

- boot from floppy, choose 1) Start With CDROM support
- when A:\> arrives, type C: (enter)
- put your Windows98 CD in here !
- when C:\> arrives, type D:\win98\setup (enter)

if you want to speed things up a bit you could use D:\win98\setup /ie /is to skip the scandisk (which you have just done) and the create-a-floppy bit ('coz you've just booted from one)

good luck

best wishes, HJ

 

Hi HJ, I have only read this part, so far, but C:\> is a DOS prompt. Unless it is booting to a boot disk and then going from A:\> to C:\> (by itself) there must be DOS running somewhere and I would suggest that the "system files" (command.com) have been transferred to the harddrive.

You cannot get to a DOS prompt without loading DOS.

Anyway, that is the point I would like to make... ...maybe I am off in fairyland

Matt

 

If you are wonder just how the HD boots to a C:\> prompt and have no windows installed came about one of three ways.

1. Good old dos was installed. Type ver at the prompt, and press Enter, and you will get whatever version of DOS was installed. If it says MSDOS version 6.25 or less, you have good old dos installed. Anything higher was the result of the following two methods. To further verify if only old dos is installed on the system, do this command set. If you see this, PATH=C:\DOS, this confirms it.

2. Someone formatted the drive with this command, using a 9x floppy.
format c: /s
With the /s, after format is done, basic system files are transferred onto the drive. This will make the drive bootable, and that is it. All you get is the C:\>. The only thing the system is capable of at this point is what is called INTERNAL dos commands. Internal dos commands is what the file Command.Com has built into itself. In short, you can copy, delete, rename, create and delete folders (directories), transfer system files, and quite a few other things. To do EXTERNAL commands, you need the programs present on the drive that do the things you want to do, such as Format and Fdisk.

3. Someone formatted the drive using a basic format command and then used a internal dos command.
format c:
sys a: c:
This gives the same final result as #2 above.
With any of the above, if the windows setup files are copied onto the drive, will be enough to start the install of windows.

The reason I suggested the WIN command is this. If windows was installed, and MSDOS.SYS was edited so that windows did not startup automatically. This is the command that would start up windows (versions 3.x and 9x), if installed, and the default PATH for 3.x or 9x is present. Just a quick test is all.

Just about the only thing I can think of that could cause the lockup is this. Fdisk.Exe or Command.Com is corrupt. When you exit a program in dos, Command.Com is reloaded or verified.
As for me, I would just install windows at this point, and forget about Fdisk and Format, as you have said they were both done for you already, and whoever put on system files just to see if the drive worked as far as booting up a system.

 

Hi

oh dear I didn't put that very well

all I was trying to get at was that there should be no great surprise that not-very-much would happen at the C:\> prompt until Windows gets installed... but I shouldn't have said "No OS on C: "

what Matt and Mark say about the system having been transferred onto C: is completely correct; this is why you see the message "Starting Windows98..." But, the capabilities of this OS are tiny compared to the Windows98 OS as we know it in all its glorious technicolour GUI - many of the commands which would run at the C:\> prompt which you can raise in a DOS box under Windows just aren't there - and though it says "Starting Windows98" you cannot actually launch Windows98

==

but worse there's a more serious error in what I posted last:

when booting from the startup floppy (prior to installing Windows) the process creates a RAMDRIVE, which has the effect of shunting up the letter for your CDROM drive(s) by one

so your CDROM drive won't be D: like it is "normally ", and thus the command line I gave to start the setup procedure was wrong

your CDROM will (almost certainly) get assigned E: (to make sure of the letter: when you boot from the floppy and choose 1) Start With CDROM support, look at the screen you end up with, because it identifies the letter which has been assigned to the CDROM)

here's the corrected version, in the (unlikely) event that your CD drive gets given a letter other than E:, just replace the E: (below) with what you see:

- boot from floppy, choose 1) Start With CDROM support
- when A:\> arrives, type C: (enter)
- put your Windows98 CD in here !
- when C:\> arrives, type E:\win98\setup (enter)

(Matt - not you in Fairyland, me on another planet! Heck knows I've put W98 on enough times, should have got this bit right by force of habit if nothing else...)

==

Des - how goes it with the BIOS? Did you manage to get in OK to see that the new(er) HDD has been recognised correctly? It's important to get the BIOS to recognise the HDD size correctly before doing anything else.

...just a bit worried that if the BIOS is getting the size wrong, it might possibly be that which is causing FDISK to lock up somehow...?

if you can easily get hold of another W98 floppy, could try with that - can use FDISK just to display the partition information, without altering anything - see if you get the same lockup

best wishes, HJ.

 

Question. Why the C: ?

C: has nothing to do with things at this point.

Shouldn't it be just ?

- boot from floppy, choose 1) Start With CDROM support
- when A:\> arrives, type E:\win98\setup (enter)

This is one reason I have modified the line(s) on my 98SUD to read:

LH %ramd%:\MSCEDX.EXE /d:mscd001 /L:S
LH %ramd%:\MSCEDX.EXE /d:mscd001 /L:T

This makes the CDROM(s) always S: & T: no matter which machine or OS I boot to the floppy.

BillyBob

 

Hi BB

true logging to C: first is not strictly necessary, but I find it easier that way

with the files in the RAMDRIVE at this point, and the RAMDRIVE on the path, you don't lose out (COMMAND.COM etc are in the RAMDRIVE)

this allows the floppy to get removed anytime after you log to C: - otherwise you have to take it out during the middle of the setup process (at the first Restart prompt)(setup actually senses whether the floppy has been removed, if it susses you've already taken it out you don't even get the "remove floppy disk now" prompt)(which means you can leave it to itself as the restart will happen automatically after 15 sec delay - as long as the floppy isn't still inserted)

==

also, logging to C: first, can still do things like SCANDISK or other last minute fiddling around / checks, will return to a C: prompt when SCANDISK finishes - but leave logged to A: and it will insist on having a look at the floppy all the time. Which is not needed! because COMSPEC is specifying the copy of the COMMAND.COM which is in the RAMDRIVE and the RAMDRIVE's first on the path.

So if you switch to C: first (assuming the RAMDRIVE's D: and the CDROM's gone up to E: on this machine) the search order is
C:, D:, A:, E:

leave it on A: and you get
A:, D:, A:, E:

(COMSPEC would be D:\COMMAND.COM in both these cases)

==

minor detail !! but can lower hassle level slightly...

best wishes, HJ

 

Hi again

you got me worried BB! - like, if there's a different version of COMMAND.COM in the root C:\, what happens...

...so I checked (easily done on a dual boot DOS6.22 W98SE machine), leaving DOS 6.22 COMMAND.COM in the root of C:\, booting from W98SE startup floppy, logging across to C:, did a few SCANDISKS and things to see what COMMAND.COM would reload...

...and it seems OK, ver & COMSPEC both confirm that the Windows98 COMMAND.COM in the RAMDRIVE is the one in use (even though C:\COMMAND.COM is the DOS6.22 version)

phew!

best wishes, HJ

 

Once you type E:\Win8\Setup the Floppy can be removed right then as it is already out of need.

You speak of scandisk & command,com. They are both already in the RAM drive. And can be run from there. All you need to do it type D: enter. Then type scandisk C:. And when it is done you will be returned to D:

And to be sure I was right I just did it on one of my 98SE machines. AFTER pulling the Floppy.

Everything during the install is used from the Ram drive untill the Restart then Windows takes over. Both on the DOS side and Windows.

I have as yet to figure out what hassle it lowers. I have never found any hassle in doing a clean intall or a overtop repair reinstall. Same boot floppy used in either.

Unless you consider the time I messed up and booted from the HD to do a repair install and di not pay attention and Windows made a new folder Windows001. That was back in the days of Win95. So I QUICKLY learned from that messup.

Plus I need to be careful here as my SUD is HIGHLY modified.

I have things like

Scanreg.exe. Which can be use to restore that registry from RB000.cab files if needed. And I have used it a couple of times.
Regedit.exe
Mouse Which works as long as it is PS2 or Serial
Deltree.exe

They are not on the standard Windows made SUD. And it will work on either of my 98SE machines. As it has NOTHING to do with the HDs.

In fact the 98 SUD that I am using is basicly the ORIGINAL Win98FE SUD. I just had to update the four items so that they were SE and not FE files.

To verify that I just looked and I see SEVERAL files dated 5/11/98.

But again.


BillyBob

 

What are you worried about ?

Lets leave DUAL Boot out of this. That is something entirely different.

But actually when you select Restart Windows and select to restart in the MsDos mode you are dual booting. And if not done correctly can produce not so desirable results. That is when the Command.com in the root folder does come into play I believe.

I just did more research and the Command.com on my floppy is 93.880 in size dated 5/11/98.

The one in the root folder of C: is 93.890 and dated 4/23/99.

But when booting to the Floppy you are correct. The one in the RAM drive is the one that gets used. The one in the Root of C: would only be used when the machine is booted to the HD. And or Windows is booted into the MsDOS Mode. The Floppy is not involved here.

And when you boot from a power off state ( which is the best way to boot to the floppy after shutting down and waiting a bit before restarting ) the FLoppy it has NO IDEA what is on the HD.

You may ask " Why the wait ? " That is to make sure that RAM has cleared out.

Just doing a restart from within Windows to the SUD MAY NOT work porperly. Because RAM may not fully clear.

BillyBob

 

because this is relevant to Des' situation. As previously mentioned, C: has been sys'd (one way or another) - but we don't really know what it's been sys'd with (though it seems likely from the first post in the thread that it's Win98 of either flavour). Mark's post mentions the possibility that "good old DOS" was used. We don't really know what version of COMMAND.COM is in C:\ on Des' machine at the moment.

...so I wanted to check to see if having a different version of COMMAND.COM already present in C:\ might upset anything, as a consequence of logging to C: first. To check I used a dual boot machine I have handy, as it provided ready access to a different version of COMMAND.COM. Which is the only reason dual boot got mentioned, it was the easiest way I had to check.

try FORMAT! Something I might well want to do, for example to format an upper partition, copy the CD's \Win98 folder contents to it and run Windows setup from the files on the HDD partition rather than the files on the CD. Lots of reasons why this can be handy (in my case often because old CD ROM drive is dirty or on the way South... I seem to have quite a collection of CDROM drives which have travelled further South than I would like )

if I boot from SUD, leave the prompt on A: but take the floppy out, format (say) F: because I'm going to be using it for the files copied from the CD: and I want to know it's clean first...

...at the end of the format, when the A:\> prompt tries to return, I get
Not ready reading drive A:
Abort, Retry, Fail?**

but if I've logged to C: first, I just get the C:\> prompt back

**why it does this I really don't know; it doesn't have to reload COMMAND.COM from the floppy, it's still using the one from the RAMDRIVE. But it still insists on having a look at A: before the prompt returns...

I suppose if I just left the floppy in it wouldn't make any odds. But I don't tend to do that 1) because if it's out already I can't forget to pull it out later and 2) I've had floppies overwritten even with the write protect notch set to protect before now (overenthusiastic virus-buster did that - but if software can do it on purpose, a bad crash could, too. Belt and braces. If it happened it would be danged tedious.)

==

now there's some really good advice...

==

back to Des' scenario: surely this all by-the-by compared to ensuring that the BIOS has correctly adjusted to the different HDD size?? If that's not right, can only make for trouble further down the line - better to make 100% sure the HDDs detected OK before installing Windows, surely?

best wishes, HJ.