Installing externally-enclosed internal HDD to WINXP SP2 via USB2.0

I see my situation is similar to a thread a few days ago (c.f. hawk22 Formatting Spare Drive 13th April 2005, 08:08 ). However, I didn't want to make presumptions based on my own [faulty] logic. Pardon me in advance if I'm too verbose.

So, here's some background:

• I'm running WINXP SP2, Home on a "Frankenstein" SONY VAIO.
• The VAIO's relevant (?) vitals: P3, 866MHz; 512MB RAM; 170W power supply; USB 2.0 is add-on per PCI slot (4 ports ext/1 port int).
• There's already primary master & slave HDDs installed via the mobo controller (secondary M/S are the optical drives).
• I did install a PCI HDD controller prior to this, but: 1- couldn't figure it out, and 2- don't know if my 170W power supply would support any more than the 2 [native?] internal HDDs.
• I bought a Seagate Barracuda HDD (160GB, internal 3.5 ") and am trying to install it in a COMP*USA external enclosure; it interfaces either USB2.0/ IEEE1394 (Firewire??). (I think I'd prefer using USB2.0.)
• The external enclosure is externally powered.
• My user experience is : Advanced Beginner (Acolyte)/Novice Intermediate (Apprentice).

This process has met with a few setbacks:

• The user guide for the enclosure states to set the jumper to 'Master', so that's what I did. Question: Is that correct? I intend this drive only for storage and backup.
• I've tried to set the partitions (in Windows) using both PartitionMagic 8 and Windows Disk Management tools. In either case, I received an error message stating that errors were encountered during the formatting/partitioning process, and that the process could not be completed (paraphrased). Question: Is there possibly some physical defect with the HDD? I bought it new yesterday from COMP*USA.
• In either case, I used the tool's Wizard to set the HDD's first partition as primary, with the intent of creating several logical partitions. I'd like to have 7x20GB partitions (for storage), one 5GB partition (dedicated for backups), and the remaining space as another storage partition. Question: Was I correct to choose 'Primary' or should I have chosen elsewise?
• With the HDD jumper set as 'Master', the first partition would be created (using either tool's Wizard), the partition size would be correct, but the formatting subroutine would return an error message stating as above. Consequently, neither Windows nor PartitionMagic could format the HDD.
• I tried setting the HDD jumper to 'Slave', then running diskmgmt.msc to create the first [primary] partition - still intending multiple partitions. I received the same error message, except this time the volume information sub-screen showed only one 20GB partition, listed as 'Healthy' but unreadable (and not formattable). Question: Have I ruined this new HDD?

Now I'm pretty much stuck like Chuck in Georgia mud, and I'm not sure what to do. I'm not even really sure that there's not a physical error on the HDD (I just bought it new yesterday); nor do I know how to check an unformatted HDD. I thank any and all - in advance - for any and all wisdom, insight, advice, criticism, or comments about my situation. Again, I am verbose by nature; I apologize if I've left too much for a single new thread - please advise/comment to this, too. I look forward to your responses. Have a great day ~~ Peace & Blessings ~~Scott

 

Hi Scott, welcome to the board. I have an external drive in an enclosure and it formatted jumpered as master, no problems, using Windows Management Console, Disc Management. Sorry you're having a problem.

I am going to assume that the PCI USB 2 card is properly installed and has the correct drivers and that you have been able to use the USB 2 ports successfuly in another application like a picture card reader, pen drive or something similar. If in doubt, step one would be to make sure the PCI card and drivers are OK.

Then with the drive installed in the enclosure, plugged into power and turned on, plugged into USB 2 port, does the HDD light on the enclosure indicate it is getting power? If so, right click my computer, select manage, select disc management, look for that drive, does it appear? If it has not been formatted it won't have a drive letter. Scroll down, it may be listed after your CD/DVD drives.

If it is there, right click it, do you get a drop down menu? If so, select format, NTFS and let Windows do it's thing. If it formats ok, then you can use Partition Magic to set up the partitions as you like.

If it does not appear, or the enclosure HDD light does not light up, could be the drive is faulty and/or the enclosure might be NG or the enclosure IDE plug or power plug may not be fully seated. Disconnect all then take it apart and unplug and replug the connectors. Make sure the IDE connector and power plug are properly oriented and fully inserted. Push Hard! Then set back up, try disk management again.

The only way I would know how to check the drive would be installed in the machine. If it does not work there, go to the MFG's web site and download their diagnostic tools.

There may be a way to check it while external, anybody reading this know how?

Wish you luck with it.

Take care,

Martin

 

OK, Thanks...I'm getting closer now : )

First off, thanks very much to martinr121 and TonyT! This is the first time I've joined a forum/BBS for PCs, and you guys are making a believer out of me. If I wasn't such a slacker I would've seen your replies earlier; I've been up since about 3am playing Jade Empire on my Xbox. Pretty cool game. Oh, and so I'm probably more verbose now secondary to the six cups of coffee I've had since I awoke.

Anyway, I followed the advice as follows:

• I checked the USB card and drivers - all reading "This device is working properly." Check.
• I re-checked the PIN & power connections in the enclosure - all plugged in nice and snug. Check.
• I reset the jumper to "Master ", then hard-reset the enclosure (powered it off & on). Check.
• On running dm.msc, "Disk 2" was listed with one primary partition (20GB) and the remainder of unallocated space - this was how I had left it earlier. Check.
• Then I deleted the partition I had made earlier, leaving me with a blank HDD of unallocated and unformatted space. Check.
• Now dm.msc showed that I had an [unknown] device, still listed as 'Disk 2', but that was unreadable. Huh?
• So I turned off the USB drive enclosure, then turned it back on - thinking maybe it had to reset itself. I did not restart Windows.
• Now dm.msc showed the entire drive as unallocated & unformatted space. OK, that's square one - I think - as outlined by both of you. Check.
• I right-clicked on "Disk 2" and selected "Create new partition ". I selected 'extended' and selected a partition size of 20000MB, then clicked "Continue" (only option in the wizard at that point). Check.
• The graphical view of the dm.msc immediately reflected a change in "Disk 2 ", showing a new extended partition with the spec'd dimensions. Check.
• Now, though, I right-clicked again and "Format" was not an option. Huh?
• Then I right-clicked on the unallocated space to create another partition. The dm.msc Wizard showed that my only choice for this space was as a "Primary" partition (the other options were grayed out). Huh? So I canceled that operation.
• I right-clicked on the first new partition, chose "Create ", and saw that I could only create a "Logical" drive in the Extended Partition.
• At this point I realized I was in another fix, so I chose not to spin my wheels in the mud any deeper. I quit all that, left it all as, and started this thread reply.

Gentlemen, that's where I'm at as I finish this reply. I did D/L the support tools from Seagate.com; there's both a bootable and a Windows version. They even offer an online diagnostic interface. I haven't tried any of that yet - wanted to post this response first. So now here are my current questions & comments:

• I could re-delete this new partition and re-create again? This time, though, I could create an extended partition that spans the entire unallocated space. From there I could create the logical drives as I desire. Is this presumption correct?
• I could run the Seagate tools and write 0's to the HDD ('Quick Write'). Then the HDD would be entirely clean again. Following that I could use the Seagate DiskWizard to setup the HDD. Maybe it would work this time.

I think I'm leaning toward the 2nd option. Oh, and BTW Martin, the online tools at Seagate will check the drive, but I haven't read the FAQ enough yet to tell if the HDD would need to be formatted for this diagnostic to work. I know, RTFM. Also, the online troubleshooting doc stated that HDDs > 137GB might need to be set up manually from a native DOS prompt; it gave instructions, too. However, I haven't booted outside of Windows XP yet. Is it the same as, or similar to, the "old" days: pressing <F8> during the boot sequence?

Again, thanks so much for all the help and advice. I appreciate it greatly! I definitely feel that I'm getting closer to a solution with your input and ideas. Also, thanks for putting up with my prattle. I'm sure with more time under my belt posting, I'll eventually pare down my wordiness.
~~ Peace & Blessings ~~ Scott

 

Good Morning Scott: Seems that you are 5 cups of coffee ahead of me, but if you slow down a bit I will catch up. It also seems that you have made some progress with Windows recognizing there is another drive attached.

All I have to go by is the way my external drive is set up. When I first installed it, in Disc Management, I set it up with a primary partition that spanned the whole drive. It is a 200GB and I had no problem.

After it was set up as a primary with a drive letter assigned, I then formatted it, NTFS, again, no problems. The drive can have up to 3 primary partitions and as many logical drives as you desire. I use Partition Magic to create partitions. I know Tony T said use "extended" partition, and he is really sharp and knows lots more than I do, but since that did'nt work, you might want to take a shot with "primary" If that doesn't work, you won't be any worse off.

So, you might want to try deleting any existing partitions and creating a new primary that spans the whole drive. If that is successful, then re-boot, go back to disc management and see if you get a right click format option. If so, do that and then do the desired partitioning with Partition Magic. I think, if I was doing this, I would re-boot between each step. That is, delete partitions, re-boot, create partition, re-boot, format, re-boot.

Personally I would not use any "Disc Wizard" from the mfg to set up a drive. I once used a Maxtor drive set up, it put a "drive overlay" on the drive which caused no end of problems later on when I had to make some changes on the drive. Disc Management is perfectly capable of doing what you want done without adding an extra layer of complexity. I don't think zeroing out the drive could do any harm, but it shouldn't be neccessary.

I got my fingers crossed that this will work out for you.

Take care,

Martin

 

Well, the progress is bittersweet :|

OK fellas, here's where I'm at now. Coffee waning, frustration waxing, serenity blessing - ie, getting through it.

• I sucessfully created a 5GB logical partition in the disc-spanning extended partition (the full 160GB).
• I tried to format through dm.msc and the format progressed until (booooo) at the very end, it returned that the operation had encountered errors and that the format was not completed. I neglected to write the error message down (sorry); it was a small pop-up and seems like it had something resembling a memory address or hex numerator.
• Anyway, the new drive was listed in the viewpane of dm.msc - volume name assigned, "healthy ", drive letter H:, etc., but the file system type was not listed. Hmmm, trouble?
• So I closed dm.msc and started up PartitionMagic 8. It, too recognized the logical partition as well as the extended partition. So far, so good.
• I ran the format operator through PM8 and it progressed fine until at the end, it also said error encountered. But with PM8, all the logical drive information was listed correctly. The format took probably the better part of an hour (yep, for a 5GB partition!). Granted I'm running a P3 866 chip and this operation is running thru USB instead of the native bus architecture, but still.
• Then I left the HDD alone (didn't try to add or change anything else at this point), and opened a COMMAND window to run chkdsk on H:.
• The first pass of chkdsk I didn't use /F, and the screen dump stated:

• "Replacing bad clusters in logfile. "
• "Adding 1 bad clusters to Bad Clusters File. "
• "Correcting errors in the volume Bitmap. "
• "Windows found problems with the file system. "
• "Run chkdsk H: /F to correct problems. "

​

Aha! You say, maybe this has been the culprit all along?!?!? I then ran chkdsk /f as suggested and about 5 [long] minutes later, the screen dump stated "Windows has checked the file system and found no problems. "

Now then, I perused further: in the COMMAND window, I could CHDIR to the new logical drive; also, I could execute DIR at the H:\ prompt. The dump was: "Volume named HDD03_BAKUP" and "Volume serial number 3C78-FE16 ".

In Windows, My Computer lists the drive correctly and I can open the drive in Explorer. Furthermore, in Explorer, I was able to make a folder named "boo" and copy a file into and out of it. So it all seems OK, sort of, but I still have questions:

• Does the bad cluster error have enough magnitude to cause the drive to run so slow? Or is it simply that it's an internal drive operating externally via USB?
• Will the drive perform better now that the bad cluster found [so far] has been fixed?
• Is Norton DiskDoctor able to check a partition that hasn't been formatted [ie-the rest of the extended partition]?
• Is the bad cluster error likely an ill omen for the rest of the HDD? Should I just take the bastard back to COMP*USA and switch it out (I bought the 2-year replacement plan)?
• I also had this thought: maybe I should just as well swap out this 160GB drive [or replacement] with the 40GB [full] drive already on the native HDD controller. Then I could futz around with the 40GB and actually start using the 160GB. Comments?

Like I said, I haven't done any further restructuring of the MBR on this 160GB HDD until I figure out my next step with the drive itself. If the advice is to just return it for another new one, then there's no point going through all that again. I can only imagine how looooooooooooooooong it would take dm.msc or PM8 to format the other 155GB, based on how long it took to format these 5GB!

I've really learned some good stuff here in the past day. I really can't tell you guys enough how much I appreciate all the help, advice, and well-wishing. At least I finally turned the corner on this issue and got a return of some accomplishment. I'm looking forward to the replies on this piece of the thread because of that. Thanks in advance for any more tips, advice, or suggestions about what's happened and what course of action is most appropriate next. ~~ Peace & Blessings ~~ Scott

 

Hey Scott: If you're still drinking coffee, I'll never catch up.

You asked for an opinion on that HDD, so, I'll give you mine. I would probably get a speeding ticket on the way to CompUSA, HDD in my lap with one hand poised over it so I could jump out of the car with it as soon as I could get the car stopped, brakes screeching, at their front door.

In simpler terms, I would return it.

Others on this board who are much smarter, more experienced than I am may have a different opinion. But an hour to format 5GB would have convinced me.

As far as installing it in the machine and using it, I wouldn't if I didn't want to have to re-do everything I put on it. Of course you could try this, see if it behaves differently in the machine, but I doubt it.

That aside, putting the known good 40GB drive in the enclosure would be a good test bed, check out the speeds, etc. My exterior USB 2 drive is about 30% slower than an installed drive.

I'm not sure how the CPU speed affects this, I have an Athalon 2800, rated at 2.08 Ghz, and I'm satisfied with the external drives speed.

As far as USB 2 vs Firewire, the drive should operate on either w/o a hiccup. USB 2 is slightly faster about 20%, I believe, but using the Firewire port if you have one may be a way to see if your USB 2 drivers are up to snuff by comparing speeds. If the USB speed is comparatively slow, I'd re-install the drivers.

Again, good luck in solving this problem.

Take care,

Martin