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New Motherboard (PCI Express?)

Discussion in 'PC Hardware' started by SVEN, 2005/02/10.

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  1. 2005/02/10
    SVEN

    SVEN Well-Known Member Thread Starter

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    Hi All,
    I am thinking of putting together my own system and I am looking at motherboards.

    Some say they have PCI slots some say they have PCI Express x1 or x16.

    I never heard of PCI Express. Is this a new standard?
    Any input is appreciated.

    Sven
     
    SVEN,
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  2. 2005/02/11
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff

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    PCI Express is a new standard - read about it here

    I have edited your thread title to be more specific
     

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  4. 2005/02/11
    SVEN

    SVEN Well-Known Member Thread Starter

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    Thanks Pete,

    What I got out of this is, that this new standard is still very new and it will take time to work its way into the private sector.
    I guess I stay with PCI for now. Computers get old in 3 to 4 years anyways and I will have to get a new one at that time.
    How about SATA? Again a new standard that is better known ( by me ) but seems to have some problems. Is it worth to go with that standard or should I wait for improvements on that too?
    Thanks

    Sven
     
    SVEN,
    #3
  5. 2005/02/11
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff

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    If you fancy a bit more reading - see SATA

    SATA is far better established than PCI Express and there are many hard drives available. There are some problems as evidenced by posts on this Board (search for SATA). It is my understanding that currently SATA is no faster than EIDE - others may have more recent data on this.

    AFAIK other SATA drives - opticals, etc are not readily available, if at all.

    I can't comment on the basis of experience as my 3 PC's are all EIDE, up to UDMA 133 and work just fine.
     
  6. 2005/02/11
    SVEN

    SVEN Well-Known Member Thread Starter

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    Thanks Pete,
    I stay with PCI and ATA for now.
    Sven
     
    SVEN,
    #5
  7. 2005/02/11
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff

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    I have developed a habit of building computers for friends who ask for my advice. The latest one on order is based on the "new" technology:

    Gigabyte GA-K8N Ultra-SLI
    Gigabyte GV-NX62128D
    AMD Athlon 64 3000+
    Kingmax 512 MB PC3200 SuperRAM (two sticks)
    Hitachi 7K250 160GB SATA

    SLI = Scalable Link Interface which means that two graphics cards can be run in parallel for "extreme" performance for gamers. GV-NX62128D is not SLI compatible but the possibility is there for the future.

    AMD Athlon 64 3000+ is the most bang for the bucks.

    The MB has dual channel memory, thus two DDRAM sticks.

    As Pete said, ATA-100, ATA-133 and SATA (at ~143 MB/s) has been academic since the performance of the drives themselves have been lower than the performance of the ATA-100 interface. Now SATA-II is at ~286 MB/s but that's not the full story about SATA-II.

    The Hitachi 7K250 (SATA) has a maximum data rate of 757 Mb/s (Megabits per second) which translates to ~95 MB/s (MegaByte per second) which is below ATA-100.
    The Hitachi T7K250 (SATA-II) has a maximum data rate of 843 Mb/s which translates to ~105 MB/s which is slightly above ATA-100.
    This difference has nothing to do with SATA versus SATA-II but the second generation benefits from higher platter density (~120 GB/platter compared to ~80 GB/platter) which actually pushes them beyond ATA-100.

    10 % improvement in performance is not neglectable but my friend is in panic mode and didn't want to wait for the T7K250 which is just around the corner.

    This BOAC (Box Of Assembled Components) has not been built and run yet but I believe that this is the best bet for the future.

    Christer
     
    Last edited: 2005/02/11
  8. 2005/02/11
    Rockster2U

    Rockster2U Geek Member

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    Whooa Down Now .......

    Not trying to rain on anyone's parade here, but there may be few more factors to consider. It wasn't all that long ago when 16 bit ISA card interfaces ruled the roost. When PCI devices were introduced, most board manufacturers split their socket offerings between PCI and ISA, knowing full well that ISA was on its last legs. Smart approach because there were a lot of ISA devices out there and an "all PCI" board meant no ISA devices could be used. Try buying an ISA board today.

    So here we are today with another developing hardware transition called PCI Express and its not just in the video department. Admittedly, its going to take a while, but the metamorphis is going to take place. Message here - don't be so quick to dismiss PCI Express as something thats a couple of years out - its going to happen quicker than some might think.

    Second issue of SATA vs IDE HDD's - OK, some are disappointed with performance measured against expectation but to say a UDMA 7 is performing below UDMA 5 is a sorry mistake. I'm no scholar on drive transfer speeds, platter density and the like and, while I read a lot of technical stuff, most of it is GEEK to me. In my book, the real test is how that puppy performs in my own backyard and I'm going to say that SATA drives in general warrant very serious consideration vis-a-vis IDE drives. No, they aren't going blow the doors off of everything else thats out there. The speed differential (if there is one) is only going to be discernable with massive file transfers or benchmarking tools, but that too is only part of the story. I've been using those little 36 Gig Raptors for system drives in high end machines lately and while the file transfer speed shows little difference compared to most other drives, find me an ATA drive with a 5.2 ms seek speed and then we'll talk about performance. On another note, my latest house hound will have 6 HDD's when finished - 4 SATA's and 2 IDE's (5 in place now) - what kind of power saving do you think the 4 SATA's provide compared to those hungry ATA drives? How much more cable would one have to cram into a box if those SATA's were IDE's? And yes, I have been using round shielded cables exclusively for more than two years. What about cooling ramifications? Don't get me wrong - I'm not dissing regular ATA drives - I just think there are a lot of good reasons not to dismiss SATA as a viable and perhaps preferrable option.

    I kind of like the way Rockit has researched and is putting together his new machine, Its worth a read wherever that link is now. And, whatever anybody decides to build - go for it - there really aren't any "wrong answers" - the sense of accomplishment is enough reward but what you'll learn can't be purchased at any price.

    ;)
     
    Last edited: 2005/02/11
  9. 2005/02/11
    SVEN

    SVEN Well-Known Member Thread Starter

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    Christer and Rockster2u,

    Thank you both for your input.

    All of the motherboards that I looked at had SATA connectors on it, but also take regular ATA devices. So I can upgrade later if needed.
    However, I think I stay with regular PCI and AGP ports for now.
    Like I mentioned before, Computer get old very fast and I might build me a new one in 3 to 4 years and will decide what is best at that time.
    Again thanks to all of you who answered my post.
    Sven
     
    SVEN,
    #8
  10. 2005/02/11
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff

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    Sven,
    You're welcome ...... :) ...... !

    Christer
     
  11. 2005/02/11
    BillyBob Lifetime Subscription

    BillyBob Inactive

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    That my Friends is a matter of opinion. And depends a lot on what you want it to do for you.

    My Oldest machine has an 8.4GB Primary HD in it. Originally it ( I believe) had Win3.1 on it. Then 95, 98FE now 98SE.

    :) I just looked at it and it is still calling it a 98FE drive. :)

    True. It is not as speedy as this Machine but It does EVERTHING that we require of it. It is a GREAT machine for the kids to mess with and keeps them off of this or my Wifes machine.

    BillyBob

    PS.
    In fact I am editing this reply from it amd I see VERY LITTLE difference.

    So again it may be old but STILL very usefull


    BB
     
    Last edited: 2005/02/11
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