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I can't install or unistall any programs!! It might be virus related...

Discussion in 'Security and Privacy' started by fer_rios25, 2004/10/25.

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  1. 2004/10/26
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff

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    Hello fer'!

    You have a slight disaster at hand but there are good folks helping You and not much that I can add.

    However, no one has mentioned System Restore. I assume that You have SR enabled and the downside of that is that a virus may hide there. Most scanners don't look in there and they are missing this hideout. Disabling SR may sound like a bad idea in Your situation but it is probably necessary. If You leave SR running, any virus hiding in there will reappear after the next reboot. Wait for a second opinion from the others though.

    About Your harddisk: You can save any personal data by copying to it but nothing from any Windows or Program folder which would be of no use on a reinstalled system. If specific drivers were needed for that harddisk, then I recommend to disconnect it while reinstalling Windows and reconnecting when completed and drivers are installed.

    Copy any personal data You'd like to save before disabling SR! Better safe than even more sorry!!

    To clear up the size issue, check out the thread Windows does not show full hard drive capacity in which I explain why it is like it is.

    Christer
     
    Christer,
    #21
  2. 2004/10/26
    Johanna

    Johanna Inactive Alumni

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    If you want to start over, which is going to be the quickest and most efficient way to clean your computer, save all your data files (Like your address book, Favorites (bookmarks) dbx files (if you use Outlook Express) My docs, My Pics, My Music etc onto cd. Do NOT try to keep any programs or Windows files. Disconnect printers, scanners, cameras, etc and disconnect from the Internet.
    Clean XP Install
    Insert your XP cd. During the install, it will prompt you for your older ME disk. After you are done installing XP, install a security program (Just one!) and THEN go online, update the security until it runs dry, and then go to the MS site for your MS updates, and SP2. Install your programs, and put your data back.

    If you do decide to go the route, and I would, considering the mess a removal of Norton will make (I still see it in your HJT log) perhaps partitioning your hard drive(s) would be a good idea. You can do that during the intitial set up- just follow the prompts. Personally, I would reinstall Norton and skip the others- McAfee etc. I use both the native XP firewall and Norton, simultaneously, with no problems. If you decide to partition, put XP and Norton on the "C" drive, and keep all your data on the others. If you should run into trouble again, it makes it much easier to wipe XP w/o risking your data. Post back if you have any questions.

    Johanna
     
    Johanna,
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  4. 2004/10/27
    fer_rios25

    fer_rios25 Inactive Thread Starter

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    New questions...

    Well, first of all I want to thank all of you guys for all your help. My system seems to be a lot better right now, without needing to start over. I ran both AVG and RAV virus scanners and they found no more viruses. I can now install/unistall most programs, but I am still having a lot of trouble with Norton (both firewall and AV). These are some of the questions and conserns I have:

    1) Can I still partition my 200 gig, additional storage drive, even though I have already formatted it as one peace and saved many files?
    2) Since I am still having A LOT of trouble with norton (both AV and firewall) I was wondering If I could delete all traces that they were ever installed and try to start installing them from scratch. (Notice that my system is running fairly well with the McAfee firewall and with AVG 6.0)
    3) I tried running Spywareguard, but it keeps giving me an error message and it has to turn off! What can I do to fix this problem? (could this be a virus preventing it from working?)
    4) I noticed that in the Grisoft website announced that they put an end to support to AVG 6.0, does this mean that my system will be voulnerable to any new virus threats?
    5) If the answer to #4 is yes, is there any other good free alternatives for antivirus protection?
    6) Can there still be a virus in the system restore even after I turned it off? (Before coming across bbs, I tried restoring my computer to two different restore points and i was unable, does this mean there is a virus hidding in there?)
    7) And, Finally : I ran spybot and it erased many files, but said it couln't erase the following:
    * Delfin Protect
    * AdRoar Plugin
    * Powerscan
    what can i do about this?

    thank you for your time,
    Fernando Rios
     
    fer_rios25,
    #23
  5. 2004/10/27
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff

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    Fernando,
    a few answers that hopefully don't add to the confusion:

    1) If You want to keep the data, You need a third party application to do that. An example is Partition Magic. Another option is to copy the contents to the other harddisk, repartition and reformat the 200-giger (using Windows XP Disk Management) and then copy back the contents. It may depend on how many gigs there are and the free space on the primary HDD, if this is possible or not.

    2) I wouldn't expect to get rid of the previous Norton installation without a lot of work. It was a mistake to delete the folders and files manually because that leaves the registry with a lot of invalid entries that have to be cleared out. Symantec have "removal tools" to get rid of most of the "debris" from a normal uninstallation but I doubt that it would work in this case.

    3) I know nothing about SpywareGuard but a virus that turns off scanners of different kinds is not unheard of.

    4) Yes, any anti virus or firewall software is useless unless it's kept up-to-date.

    5) I'm not sure about free but there are good AV software. Do a search on Windows BBS, it has been discussed before and search the web too.

    6) I assume that You refer to System Restore. If SR has been turned off, all restore points have been deleted and no virus could reside there. If SR is reenabled and there is still a virus somewhere in the system, when the first restore point is created, the virus will be back in SR. Don't reenable until the computer is verified to be clean.

    7) Those critters are strangers to me.

    If the system is running fairly well, don't even consider installing SP2. It is likely that the situation would be compounded with additional problems.

    - How many applications have You installed?

    If not too many and too complicated setups, then a reformat and reinstallation would be the quickest way to deal with the situation.

    - Is Your XP Home CD an upgrade or a full version?

    If an upgrade, follow the instructions in the link Johanna provided.
    If a full, then don't worry about verification by the old WinME CD.

    I actually haven't checked out Johanna's link and don't know what it says about this: I would get SP2, either downloaded on a different computer and burnt to a CD or get my hands on one of the SP2 CD's that are distributed.

    When doing the clean installation, I would install SP2 immediately after the installation of XP itself is completed. Next, I would install any software that I need and have on CD's, e.g. Office and any other application. Only now, would I install Anti Virus and Firewall and go on-line to get updates. The order of getting updates would be AV, XP and finally other applications.

    Christer
     
    Last edited: 2004/10/27
    Christer,
    #24
  6. 2004/10/27
    BillyBob Lifetime Subscription

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    Glad to read things are working a bit better.

    To that I can only add I agree

    Even though you use Nortons removal tools it still leaves TONS of trash in the registry and on the HD. Especially if it is not behaving well on the first place.

    I uninstalled Symantec ( troublesome ) software a while back. I then ran Norton Windoctor from the CD and it found something like 25-30 ( or maybe even more ) Symantec/Norton Entires still in the reg.

    Then I ran RegSeeker and it found a bunch more. And I also found folder still in the HD.

    This brings to mind what Christer mentioned about System Restore. After all the cleaning I did I restarted just to be sure it would and then shutdown SR untill I was sure the system was FREE OF SYMANTEC.

    BTW. The above may, can and does apply to most ANY troublesome software.

    4-Yes it could be. Due to lack of support.
    5-I agree with Christer

    6-I most deffinetly agree about shutting it down. ( lesson learned the time consuming re-cleaning way )

    I also believe Christer has done a good job.

    BillyBob
     
    BillyBob,
    #25
  7. 2004/10/27
    Johanna

    Johanna Inactive Alumni

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    If you don't want to start from scratch, disconnect from the internet, uninstall the firewall/AV you are running now, reinstall Norton (It will rewrite over all the mess it left) go online, bleed Live Update dry, install SP2 and MS updates, cross your fingers, eyes, and pray. :D

    Johanna
     
    Johanna,
    #26
  8. 2004/10/27
    fer_rios25

    fer_rios25 Inactive Thread Starter

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    what would be better??

    So if you were in my situation, what would you do? Start over or try to fix the problem?
     
    fer_rios25,
    #27
  9. 2004/10/27
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff

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    Johanna,

    I respectfully disagree on that. Even Symantec recommends to fully uninstall any previous version before attempting a renewed install.

    Fernando,

    I personally wouldn't hesitate to do a clean install. A manual restoration of a messed up system is difficult and time consuming. In addition to that, it is not always successful.

    I would also recommend a read up on imaging software. I use Norton Ghost and would have been out of Your situation in five minutes ...... :cool: ...... !

    When I help people to install their systems, it is a prerequisite that they invest in a copy of Ghost and let me set up the system for smooth imaging.

    That includes partitioning the harddrives to get a small system partition (10-15 GB) with Windows and programs and a large data partition (the rest) for user data. The second harddisk is also partitioned in at least two with the last (rear most) partition at least the same size as the system partition. This partition will be dedicated to images of the system partition.

    Have a look in RADIFIED Guide to Norton Ghost - I wouldn't dream of trading off my images!

    Christer
     
    Christer,
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  10. 2004/10/27
    BillyBob Lifetime Subscription

    BillyBob Inactive

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    DEFFINETLY start over. Fixing it as is I do not believe will EVER work and work PROPERLY.

    And ONLY by FORMATING the COMPLETE HD first.

    I also respectfully disagree with re-installing Norton on the existing system. ( experience )


    I have nuttin to say about ghost. But I DEFFINETLY AGREE with PARTITIONING. ( experience there too )

    BillyBob
     
    BillyBob,
    #29
  11. 2004/10/27
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff

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    BillyBob,

    I have more to say on the subject of Ghost ...... ;) ...... should Fernando decide to take that route but I wont "waste my breath" if he doesn't.

    Christer
     
    Christer,
    #30
  12. 2004/10/27
    fer_rios25

    fer_rios25 Inactive Thread Starter

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    tell me more

    I really don't understand ghost, can you tell me more?
     
    fer_rios25,
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  13. 2004/10/27
    fer_rios25

    fer_rios25 Inactive Thread Starter

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    ok, so I will start fresh...

    Ok. The Hd that came with the computer is 20 gig. It came partitioned, 17 on one and 3 on the other one ( the three gig partition seems to have all the system files). I Already have many personal files stored in my 200 gig hd, Can I still reformat and partition with files in it?

    After I restore my computer to its factoy condition, it will go back to windows ME, right? So right away I want to upgrade to XP with my cd, but I don't want to just install it overtop ME, I want to do a FULL install. How do I do that?

    When I finally come back from the full restore and install XP, my full priority will be security. What AV and firewalls should I install? (right now i have norton AV and firewall and McAfee Av and firewall available) It wouldn't be a good idea to reinstall AVG right?

    thank you for your time,
    Fernando Rios
     
    fer_rios25,
    #32
  14. 2004/10/27
    BillyBob Lifetime Subscription

    BillyBob Inactive

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    Christer

    I know ( or at least I think basicly ) what Ghost is about. But I do know that you need more than one HD ( or at least partition of same ) And I believe it is just a bit more powerfull than an XP Restore Point. It gets Everything not just parts here and there.

    HUH OH !!! I forgot that we are dealing with a Compaq PC here. So things maybe can not be done the same way as I would do it.

    YES !. That 3gig partiton more than likely does have ALL of the systme files pretaining to Compaq software, Drivers etc.

    BillyBob
     
    BillyBob,
    #33
  15. 2004/10/27
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff

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    Fernando,

    Ghost is a utility that creates exact copies (images) of a partition or a harddisk. These images can be restored in "emergencies" like the one You currently are trying to deal with. Go to RADIFIED and read the guide. It is quite comprehensive and should contain the information You need.

    That is quite small and I would not partition it at all but keep it unpartitioned for the system and programs.

    I would partition the 200-giger in at least two since otherwise a defragmentation will take longer than necessary. If You decide to use Ghost (or any other imaging software), I recommend to make a third partition of the rearmost 20 gig as a partition, dedicated for images.

    You have to think this through and decide on a partitioning strategy that suits Your needs and the programs that You want to use, especially if imaging software is on the list. As You will learn from reading the Ghost guide, it is possible to move all folders with user data to the 200-giger and only have the system and programs on the 20-giger.

    That's way too small for XP! My system, including programs, occupies ~4 gigs on a 12 gig partition.

    As I mentioned earlier, yes but it requires a third party application such as Partition Magic (of which I know nothing - never used it).

    No need for that. Go directly for WinXP CD. If it is an upgrade, You will be asked to, temporarily, insert the WinME CD as a confirmation that You are eligible for an upgrade. Do NOT install WinME first and then upgrade to WinXP. I strongly advice against it since it is neither a good idea nor necessary.

    Since You already have Norton and McAffe, there is no reason to spend more money. My personal choice would be Norton.

    Christer
     
    Christer,
    #34
  16. 2004/10/27
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff

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    BillyBob,

    The difference is measured in lightyears ...... ;) ...... by us who have seen the light!

    Fernando,

    So did I and BillyBob is probably correct in assuming that the small 3 gig partition holds the "Compaq restore data ". However, all of that is for the original OS, WinME and will be of no use after installing WinXP. I wouldn't hesitate a second to remove it and make the 20-giger a single partition.

    Christer
     
    Christer,
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  17. 2004/10/27
    BillyBob Lifetime Subscription

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    By that referring to the small 3gig partition it brings to mind something that I have only heard about ( no experience with same )

    It seems that on some OEM machines that small partiton can not be desposed of. It is supposedly hidden and has something the MAY stop it from being deleted.

    Again, I can not verify that.

    BillyBob
     
    BillyBob,
    #36
  18. 2004/10/27
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff

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    I believe that, what You are referring to, is a much smaller "partition ", less than 1 MB, to enable booting from the restore CD. That "partition" is not really a partition but disk space that the manufacturer nicked for this purpose and it doesn't show up anywhere. Not sure, though.

    3 gigs seem a bit too large, doesn't it, when the full install CD is ~300 MB (for WinME).

    Christer
     
    Christer,
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  19. 2004/10/27
    BillyBob Lifetime Subscription

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    Good question. Let me see what I can do with it :)

    It may depend I guess on what else is on that partiton. I believe that all of the specialty drivers may be on there too. And as you and I both know some of them are NOT small.

    And even though the ME CD might only be 300meg a lot of that is in .CAB ( .ZIP ) files which I believe are highly compressed.

    Also ( from what I have heard ) when ever you download stuff from Compaq it goes there too.

    BillyBob
     
    BillyBob,
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  20. 2004/10/27
    noahdfear

    noahdfear Inactive

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    At this point, I would just like to point out, since it was questioned, that AVG did end support for version 6.0, but now offers version 7. Still FREE! :)

    Fernando, I had to go out of town for a few days, but will be watching with interest to see what you decide and will offer input if/when I feel it would be helpful. Should you decide to continue the cleaning effort, I will be happy to help with that also, but would like to note that as already suggested, you may end up better off with a fresh install. ;)
     
    noahdfear,
    #39
  21. 2004/10/27
    fer_rios25

    fer_rios25 Inactive Thread Starter

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    ready...

    Ok, guys here's what i'm going to do...
    1) I have to partition the 200 giger with partition magic.
    2) I will run the Windows XP cd and install a new copy (This is where im confused. I don't have a windows ME installation cd, the computer came only with a cd titled "Recovery CD" will that work? Also, when I run the XP cd, what do I do so it will install a new, full copy erasing windows ME, which is still in my system.)
    3) As I start over, will it be wise to disable System Restore from the beginning so no virus will be able to hide there?
    4) Finally, im still confused :confused: about reinstallig windows. Last time I did it, I had to erase the xp upgrade and go back to ME, inser the recovery cd that came from my computer, and then select "bring my computer to its factory condition. After I was done all personal files and programs were gone (that's what I wanted). Will it be the same by just using the xp cd?

    thanks,
    Fernando
     
    fer_rios25,
    #40
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