One Way Ping problem

Hi,
I just fixed some Explorer browsing issues on our new two machine network (WIN98 and XP Pro) that runs through an ActionTec DSL modem with a built-in router. At first machine A could not browse machine B and vice versa (it was as if the WorkGroup didn't exist.) I solved that by installing NetBui on both machines.

Then the browsing happened but it was very slow to refresh folder views (like very slow). I solved that by disabling Browse Mastering on the XP machine.

Now everything works except for one weirdity: I can't ping the 98 machine from the XP machine. I can ping in reverse direction though. Ping tells me "Request Timed Out" so I guess XP sees 98 out there but just can't get permissions or something. There is no firewall on either machine yet (besides the modem firewall which wouldn't affect the intranet.)

I've tried powering down and restarting **everything** to no avail. The router always wants to give the 98 machine an IP of 192.168.0.2 and it gives the XP machine 192.168.0.4. It skips a number, ya see? Quite odd isn't it? I thought they should be sequential but maybe I'm amiss. Wouldn't be the first time.

Any of youz guyz out there (Newt?) got a clue for me?

 

Can 98 surf the net? 98 has no security so permissions is not whats going on here. Hmm TCP/IP and NETBUIE. No need for netbuie just run the XP home networking wizard, I hate XP for networking I have no idea what went through the heads at MS but its a real pain using XP in a mixed inviro.

 

KT600,
I never saw the need for NetBEUI until TCP/IP just didn't do what it was supposed to do for Explorer browsing between machines, and adding NetBEUI appeared to solve the problem.

Yes, both machines can access the internet without a problem. Both machines can browse the other in Explorer now that I added NetBEUI and disabled browsemaster from the XP machine (leaving it enabled on the 98 machine.)

Everything appears to be well except that I cannot ping from XP to 98. That was why I had no Explorer browsing between machines until I added NetBEUI (or that's my description of how it seemed to happen.)

Still perplexed.

~Paul

 

Ping -----> Newt

(edit note: this was a seperate thread but I've merged the two of them into this one - Newt)

Hi, Newt,
Favor to ask - could you review the "One Way Ping" thread and tell me what you think?

In addition to the ping problem I have a file browser issue where each machine takes a lot of time to read the other's directory tree when you first hit the other machine. Then the first folder you click on takes another long period where it builds the file tree for the folder. After that everything is normal.

Thanks, assuming you have the time to get into this thread. ~pleblanc13 (Paul)

 

Paul - regardless of the exact cause (of this or the speed issue you posted) I think I can suggest a fix for you. I'm assuming from the numbers you posted that the router is 192.168.0.1. Try this setup and to make sure it is working (or is not) unbind NetBeui from both network cards. That way you still have it as a fall-back option but it will not be playing a role while you test the IP stuff.

• Turn off DHCP (the automatic addressing feature) on the router.
• Set the IP address of XP (PC-A) to 192.168.0.2 with subnet mask 255.255.255.0 and gateway 192.168.0.1.
• Set the 98 machine (PC-B) IP to 192.168.0.3 with the other information the same.
• Build a text file named hosts (no extension) with the following entries and place a copy in c:\windows on PC-B and c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc on PC-A
  127.0.0.1 localhost
  192.168.0.2 PC-A
  192.168.0.3 PC-B
  note: if you already have hosts files in both these locations with lots of entries, rename it to hosts.old for the time being. Lots of spam blockers add entries to the file. Later you can try adding these entries to any existing hosts file and putting it back into service.
• Reboot both PCs and try pinging again. Should work with name or IP address. If not, stop and we'll dig some more. Otherwise:
• Set up and use a logon with username and non-blank password on both machines. Start out by having them both the same. If you need additional security you can move to different ones later.
• Share the root of each drive on PC-B. Fine to just use the drive letter for the share name. The drives on PC-A are already shared.
• Turn off "simple file sharing" on PC-A (windows explorer~tools~folder options~view and it should be the bottom item).
• Reboot both PCs and log on.
• Map a connection/drive on PC-A to each drive on PC-B. Same from PC-B to each drive on PC-A but note they are set up as hidden shares so you'll be mapping to \\PC-A\C$ and \\PC-A\D$ and so on. You can map to the CD drives later if you want but skip them for now.

Post back with your results. I'm hoping that all will be well at this point.

 

Newt, thanks for the suggestions. I followed them: Got rid of NetBEUI, went to static IPs, tried mapping roots of drives, logged onto to both machines as the same, non-blank-pwd user. Nothing worked. In fact, unless I use dynamic addressing I have no internet access. That was unexpected and forced me to go back to dynamic.

Symptoms with static IPs: Cannot ping from PC-A (XP) to PC-B (98) but can ping in reverse direction. **All** of the problems are manifesting on that machine. Can't ping, can't get folder refreshes of PC-B filing system without delays but somehow PC-B can get instant folder refreshes from PC-A. Huh?

Is this typical of two XP machines? I can hardly imagine it. This has to have something to do with stupid 98, the "program terminated" OS from freaking hell.

Any other suggestions will be appreciated, Newt. Thanks. Paul

 

Two XP machines set at the default values will give you two slow network browsing systems. 98 isn't network-smart enough to attempt the things that are slowing you down.

Here are a few changes for you to make and the reasons. Hopefully you are comfortable messing with the registry because some of the needed things require it.

• XP for some reason I can't really figure out always wants to check a networked PC for scheduled task information before opening a share. Not needed for home networks at all.
  HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\
  Explorer\Remote Computer\NameSpace and delete the following key:
  {D6277990-4C6A-11CF-8D87-00AA0060F5BF}
• XP likes to create shortcuts to network shares. Slows things quite a bit in some cases. You want to stop that behavior and after that, remove any such shortcuts from My Network Places and the desktop.
  HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\Explorer\NoRecentDocsNetHood and set the value to 1. If the entry isn't there, add it.
• My Computer or Windows Explorer then tools~folder options~view and uncheck the first entry, 'Automatically search for network files and printers' should also help. You will have mapped to any drives/shares/folders/printers you want so no need to waste time searching for them.
• HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\NetBT\Parameters and set the following as shown
  BcastNameQueryCount "=dword:00000001
  "BcastQueryTimeout "=dword:00000020
  "NameSrvQueryCount "=dword:00000001
  "NameSrvQueryTimeout "=dword:00000020

The most likely cause for static addressing not working for you (and killing internet access) is a bad default gateway address. It has to be the one the router is using on your internal network. Probably 192.168.0.1 but not for sure. Check the ipconfig while you are connected and verify the values. Static addressing and hosts files will speed things up a little more.

 

Yes, Newt, I'm OK with Registry tweaking. Before I do that I thought I'd drop you a line to see if you had anything to say about the ping problem. I'm not sure but it looks like the tweaks are for the speed of browsing issue only?

Thanks, Paul

 

Paul - unless there is a firewall in there somewhere, I'm at a total loss to account for the ping situation. But glad you posted since I forgot to say you need to load NetBeui again.

I'll look around some more for a possible cause for the ping issue. I'll also give some other IP troubleshooting things you can do with utilities that came with your OS.

But for now, see if you can get the speed to an acceptable level.

 

Hi, Newt,
Well, some progress here. I made all the tweaks to the Registry on the XP machine, rebooted, and lo, the slow down to browsing the 98 machine is improved. The first time I hit the 98 machine it's slow (maybe 20 seconds) to refresh, but after that it seems to be normal. Does the initial delay sound normal to you?

This was with dynamic addressing. Yes, the router is 192.168.0.1 and it's now dynamically assigning the XP .0.3 and the 98 machine to .0.2. At least it's not skipping a number. This sequence began when I went to static and continued even after I rebooted the router with dynamic.

Still can't ping from XP to 98 and if I didn't disable ZoneAlarm myself I'd also think "firewall." What the hell, it's not the worst problem, but it rankles me when something ain't right. If you ever think of something besides firewall I'd love to know.

Now, what about BrowseMaster? I had to disable it on the XP machine or 98 didn't seem to be able to browse at all. I had to leave 98 set to "auto" (or whatever), not "Enabled" or "Disabled" or it still had difficulties. Enabling it on XP but not 98 doesn't work for 98, but enabling it on 98 seems to work for both machines. Does this sound right, or is there a tweak I could make there too?

Thanks again, Newt, that registry stuff seemed to really help.

~Paul

 

Browsing - in a normal situation you would do better to have the XP system as the only active browser (maintains a list of which PCs are on your network and have stuff available to share).

If you were using static addresses, a hosts file would be faster and would eliminate the need for either PC to act as your network browser.

But neither of those are the case here.

One other thing for you to check is to make sure neither PC has ICF (internet connection firewall) running. It's easy enough to put a check mark in the wrong place when you have ICS and activate ICF without meaning to.

 

Newt, I'm going to try the Static IP routine again in the morning. I must have ******* something last time. I'll betcha either I didn't turn off DHCP or something else. Anyway, I have the hosts files, and it's only two machines, so it's not too hard to do it. I just wonder if I need to reboot the modem at any point since it wil have assigned us addresses by the time I got to it.

My plan will be (in this order):

1. Turn of DHCP.
2. Fix the ethernet cards.
3. Make sure the hosts files are correct.
4. Cold boot everything, including modem, allowing the modem to come up before turning on the machines.

The only thing I'm not sure about is what you do with BrowseMastering. I'm planning on turning it off on the 98 machine (already off on XP) before I shut it down for the cold boot.

Zound OK? I'll check back after I've done the deed. ~Paul

 

Paul - booting the modem certainly can't hurt but probably isn't necessary. The PCs won't notice or care that a DHCP server is out there if they are set for static. The DHCP server won't care since it always waits for a PC to ask for an address before doing anything.

 

Newt, wow, I've been knocked off line for quite some time (ISP problems), and I don't usually let threads sit idle like I did here.

But I'm back and I've succeeded in some things, failed with others. To recap, I've got this two machine network (XP and 98) with a DSL Modem/router and I have file browswer and ping issues on an intranet level. To bring you up to date, I did get static addressing to work, have the hosts files on each machine, etc. That has at times seemed to cure the browsing issues, but not all the time. There is a flakiness and inconsistency to it that makes me wonder if there is any answer to it.

For instance, I'll boot my XP machine and Network Places doesn't have an Entire Network node. It does have a mapped drive to the 98 machine, though, and it works to read her directory. It also kickstarts the Entire Network node to appear and with it the MS Network and the WorkGroup, etc. But that stuff will not appear until I access the 98 machine by a mapped drive.

I turned on Browsemaster on the XP machine but it seemed to help NOT.

I still can't ping the 98 machine but I can ping in reverse. I was able to ping one day. That was interesting. That's another oddity of the flakey nature of this thing. I finally could ping but then that never happened again. Pinging in the opposite direction still works consistently though.

Flusterating! Weird! Wonderful! If you have any stomach left for this let me know. If not I fully understand. We do have some connectivity so it's not like some emergency appendectomy that I need to live. :-D

Later ......... Paul

 

Paul - I'm perfectly happy to stay with this as long as you want or until we get it completely licked.

May be a couple day's delay though since I want to try for some expert help - I'm running low on ideas.

 

Newt,
Yeh, boy, I'll go for it if you are still game. Curiously, the Windows browsing has been fine on both machines lately. The only thing left is the ping from XP to 98.

I tested the hosts files and they are correct. I can ping the XP name from 98 fine, and in reverse I do get "timed out" problems but can see the IP of the 98 machine and it's correct. So hosts files are correct and browsing in Windows is working.

This really does look like a firewall on 98 but I disabled it (ZoneAlarm) long ago and I don't believe 98 even supports services so it can't be a ZA service. It's not the ActionTec modem, right? I mean it does have a firewall in it and the 98 machine is set up to be the admin machine. Supposedly the firewall only blocks incoming from outside the LAN, but I'm beginning to think crazy thoughts by this time.

Ping, ping, what the hell would stop a lousy ping? Ya see, when ping says, "host unknown" you know that you have that problem, but this is just a timeout problem and it sees the 98 machine.

I'll appreciate any more thoughts, and I'd be happy to type up the entire configuration of the LAN into one concise post if it will help. Thanks muchly ..... Paul

 

I do get "timed out" problems but can see the IP of the 98 machine and it's correct.

So when you ping the mcahine, it gives the correct name and IP of the box but then times out on the ping?

If that's the case, try this string to ping the 98 box

ping 98_pc_by_ip -a -t -l 16 -r 9 -w 1000 > c:\ping-results.txt

You'll have to stop it with a CTRL-Break so just let it try a couple dozen times then stop it. You'll have to guess since all the output will be going to c:\ping-results.txt but maybe 30 seconds.

Post the contents of the text file here.

BTW - in case you have trouble reading the string, -a -t -s -r -w are all a minus sign followed by a letter - no spaces. Space between -l and 16, -r and 9, -w and 1000. And do use the IP address rather than the PC name.

 

Hi, Newt,
Yep, here's the stats you asked me about:


************
Pinging 192.168.0.3 with 16 bytes of data:

Request timed out.

Request timed out.

Request timed out.

Request timed out.

Request timed out.

Request timed out.

Request timed out.

Request timed out.

Request timed out.

Request timed out.

Request timed out.

Request timed out.

Request timed out.

Request timed out.

Request timed out.

Request timed out.

Request timed out.

Request timed out.

Request timed out.

Request timed out.

Request timed out.



Ping statistics for 192.168.0.3:

Packets: Sent = 21, Received = 0, Lost = 21 (100% loss),

Control-Break

Request timed out.



Ping statistics for 192.168.0.3:

Packets: Sent = 22, Received = 0, Lost = 22 (100% loss),

Control-Break

Request timed out.



Ping statistics for 192.168.0.3:

Packets: Sent = 23, Received = 0, Lost = 23 (100% loss),

Control-C

*****************
Hope this is of some value. Doesn't seem to be much of a surprise there, or yes? ~Paul

 

It is interesting.

If you have a proper hosts file on the PC that did the ping and if the 98 PC is in there as a valid entry, the -a switch should have forced a display of the name so that you would have gotten

Pinging 98-pc-name [192.168.0.3] with 16 bytes of data:

What you did get indicates no hosts file or if there is one, wrong location or wrong file name or wrong contents. The fact that you got the with 16 bytes of data: shows that you did use the proper command string too since the default is 32 bytes but we reduced it to 16 with the -l switch.

 

Newt,
I put hosts in the \windows directory of the 98 machine, and on XP it's in \windows\system32\drivers\etc.

Nope, ping doesn't return the 98 machine name when I ping it with the IP. However, when I ping the name it does see it (times out) and also returns the correct IP. It just times out just like there was a firewall.

Crazy.

This is the content of the hosts files:

127.0.0.1 localhost
192.168.0.2 Jupiter
192.168.0.3 Venus

It all seems to be in order. Still no software firewall on either machine either. ~P