Can't see other computers.

BillyBob, I sense your frustration so I will put mine aside and try to eliminate yours as you are only trying to help me.
When I tried to network these computers they were all using a LinkSys router and built in hub to access the internet only. So I think this is going to be easy. NOT. What I did was make sure all the computers had unique names and create a workgroup named AZTECH. One of the computers is running Win98 which I call PC-A so I added Netbeui to it and the AZTECH workgroup. I then went to PC-B and added the workgroup AZTECH and immediately PC-A (BillsDesktop) could see PC-B (Bill) & visa versa, they could also see themselves. Then I went to PC-C (John) and added the workgroup AZTECH. Nothing happened. So I added Netbeui to PC-C and still nothing happened. Now I collected all the network information from all 3 pc's and then posed the question in post #1. I received a reply from Newt (Thanks Newt) post #2 and answered him post #3. Then I received a reply from noahdfear. I ran IPCONFIG /RELEASE and then IPCONFIG /RENEW on PC-C and the IP address was changed from 192.168.1.100 to 192.168.1.101. I posted this in a reply to noadhfear in post #5. Now here is where I think things went awry. The discussion turned to TCP/IP instead of the problem of networking the pc's which TCP/IP has no part in. TCP/IP could be completely removed from these computers and I would have the same problem but then we could not get on the internet. I hope this will eliminate the frustration that I feel from your posts. Now back to my frustration, my network in not working #@#$%^&
Ron

 

Thank you for your reply.

Again. ALL of my ideas arise from info provided by you and my interpitaion of same.

That is the part that I really do not understand and question. And that is the part that I feel is incorrect.

Why is the Router assigining two addresses ? And if the LAN is not up set on the right one it is not going to work.

It may or may not be the real problem but I just do not see it as being correct. And I feel that if it is not corrected it may cause more problems in the future.

If you ping from one of the other machines ( X.X.X.102 & 103 ) to 192.168.1.100 and 192.168.1.101 and you get a reply from both then I believe that that will prove that both addresses do in fact exist on the problem machine. Again. I do not think this should be.

Another what may be a wild idea/guess

On the problem machine do you possibly have both TCP/IP for a Dialup adapter and a Network card ? If so then the Router may be assigning an address to both. And the LAN may have a problem with which one to use.

I removed that Dialup from this XP machine and had to start FROM SCRATCH all over again. And I mean right down to powering down the Router and reseting it so that it started out with defaults. All was well after that.

More stones to turn over.

I could be way off base. But from going over things here I see that you mention the other two machines having Onboard NIC. The problem machines has plugin card ( I believe ).

Now I see the POSSIBILITY that the problem machine also may have an onboard NIC which I believe can only be disabled in the BIOS. Have you checked the BIOS for same ?

I believe there has to be something available for the Router to assign two addresses to.

Another question/idea.

I am not familiar with XP Home. But in XP Pro if certain things are not done by the Administrator or a user that has Administrator Privileges they will not work properly. And as I understand it this can be a BIG problem if more than one user is set up on the XP system.

OOPS. I just found something else is you reply.

Check the Network properties and see if TCP/IP is set as the default protocol. It should not be. This also has an effect on things. That gave me fits on a 98SE machine.

Suggestion. Go to 192.168.1.1 ( router administration ) and work your way around to the point where you can read the DHCP Client table. If it shows more than THREE addresses then I think there is deffinetly something amiss on PC-C.

And it should tell you which address is asgined to who. I can't say just where that table is because it is in different places on my old Router and my new one. I had a heck of a time finding it on the new.

It might even have something to do with more than one user and which one did what. I can not vouch for that as I only have one user on here. And I have full Administrator Privilidges.

Bottom line. For me anyway. My problem is not with TCP/IP or any other protocol. It is with why the two addresses on one machine ?

But I do see one thing common between us though. And that is the fact that this is a #@#$%^& frustrating problem.

BillyBob

 

The discussion turned to TCP/IP instead of the problem of networking the pc's which TCP/IP has no part in

After dong some checking of my machines I do now have a question regarding the bold lines above.

What others refer to as networking may be different. I do not know.

But I checked ( using various games ) and EVERYTHING seems to use the 192.168.1.xxx address for connection. No matter which way I go or between which machines.

Isn't this saying that TCP/IP does play a part ?

I also noticed something new with my newer Linksys Router. With the old Router the addresses stayed same from day to day.

Used to be constant

Bob=192.168.1.100
Nancy= 192.168.1.101
Rip=192.168.1.102

This was the same no matter which order I turned Nancy and Rip on.

Today I started Rip before Nancy and now I have

Bob=!92.168.1.100
Rip=192.168.1.101
Nancy=192.168.1.102.

But this has NO EFFECT on seing any machine from the other or playing games between any two. I was just surprised to see 192.168.1.102 when I set Nancy to listen ( on TCP/IP ) for a card game. I am used to seing 192.167.1.101. ALWAYS on Nancy.

Even Links 2001 picked up the new address. That game is my REAL test for network problems. -If if works anything will-

I also checked ( before turning on the other machines ) the DHCP client table on the Router and it only showed this machine. This is different too. With the old router it always showed all three all the time. Whether they were on or not.

This may or may not have something to do with the Router and IP Leasing or something like that that I saw SOMEWHERE in the Router adminstration.

BillyBob

 

BB - (and sorry to continue the IP thing OLDSALTY but we need to put this issue to bed)

The IP address change might or might not be unusual depending on how DHCP on that system is configured but in either case, it shouldn't be a problem.

Lots of the usual setup stuff is automatically done on the SOHO router/switches we buy for home but the still work the say their big brothers do.

DHCP is in the business of assigning a full range of setup values to PCs that depend on it. IP address is the most common one we think of but there are quite a few others.

Part of the setup of DHCP is to assign it a scope of IP addresses it is allowed to assign. For a system with a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0 the largest that scope can be is 254 addresses and if the DHCP server is on the same subnet, it's address isn't available so the max moves down to 253.

His router's DHCP could easily be using a scope from 192.168.1.2 to 192.168.1.254 or one from 192.168.1.100 to 192.168.1.103 or any other variation you can think of.

The router will also have a lease period set up. If the lease is 2 hours, at hour 1, DHCP will query the running systems (by hardware MAC address) to see who is alive and any it finds get a lease extension. Any it does not find will be queried again during the remaining lease time and a little grace afterward. If no system is found, the address will go back into a pool of addresses available for assignment.

With the 2 hour lease period in this example, turning your PC off for the evening will for sure release the leased address back to the available pool. When you start back up the next morning, your PC will send a packet containing it's PC name and MAC address. The packet will be a broadcast one (so all systems on the network see it) and the PC will ask to have address 0.0.0.0 assigned. Not possible so any DHCP servers that see the request will send back a refusal to assign 0.0.0.0 and offer an address they do have. The PC will accept the first offer it gets.

You may be offered the same address you have before shutting down but if the pool is larger than the number of running PCs (so extra addresses available) you may get another one. It is possible to set up a reservation of a particular IP address for a specific MAC address so that device always gets the same IP but I'm not even sure if the SOHO devices offer the option.

In OLDSALTY's case, it shouldn't matter though since on his network, any PC from 192.168.1.1 to 192.168.1.254 should be able to work nicely with any of the others.

 

OLDSALTY - didn't want to bury this at the end of the last post so here's another.

I really have no idea at this point why network neighborhood isn't working but it shouldn't matter. That 'feature' is good for medium size networks but with a small one (yours) it isn't needed and on a large one (mine at work) it isn't practical.

It's faster to simply connect to the share you want using start~run~.... if you know the PC and share names you are working with.

For instance, if John had a share named documents and you were at Bill then start~run~\\john\documents would open a windows explorer window and display the documents share on John.

If you want to see the entire PC, you maybe can. You could share C: on a 98 PC and connect to it the same way. On XP systems, if file and printer sharing is turned on, you will already be sharing each drive but as a hidden share named C$ or D$ or whatever the drive letter is. Assuming that John is an XP system and you are sitting at Bill, then start~run~\\John\C$ will open up the entire C drive in windows explorer.

The other option (should also work) is to map a connection to the share you want and that will set it up on your PC to behave pretty much like another local hard drive. Similar process but done thru Windows Explorer usually where from Bill you would go into tools~map network drive and map to \\john\c$ and pick any drive letter for the connection that suits you as long as you aren't already using it.

This sort of drive mapping (either start~run or tools~map network drive) works exactly the same with NetBeui as with TCP/IP.

 

OK I am giong to try one more time to get an answer. Because in my mind I think it is a problem. If it is not then help me clear it up.

Reading the info above and all from OLDSALTY I see it as saying that PC-C has been given by the Router two addresses. 192.168.1.100 and 192.168.1.101.

Otherwise why would the next machine in line ( PC-B ) be 192.168.1.102 ? Or how could Ipconfig change it from 100 to 101 ?

Just because Windows XP did it does not make it right.

I have had three different Routers and I have never seen one skip numbers from one machine to the next. Change them according to the startup order yes, but still remain in numerical sequence. of 100 thru 103

So therefore this is something new to me. And all I am asking is " is it possible for one machine to have two addresses ?" and if so why ?

Is it possible that the Router ( or a port on same ) is bad ? I was starting to have various problem ( like machines not seing each other ) with my old Linksys. But the new one fixed them. I tried to hook up the old one again and found the power supply had taken a trip South on me.

BillyBob

 

BB, When I arrived to fix a failed power supply I found 4 computers 2 laptops and 2 desktops. One of the desktops had the bad power supply. I guess this is the one that was assigned 192.168.1.101, but we will never know. It was a very old computer and I recommended that they junk it. So I moved the hard drive to the other desktop as drive D so they could access their data as they had no backups. As usual! This should explain the missing IP. Now B and C are the laptops and C had 192.168.1.100 assigned and when Dave questioned it in post 4 I ran IPCONFIG /RELEASE which dumped the IP and it had 0.0.0.0, then I ran IPCONFIG /RENEW and it was assigned 192.168.1.101. It does not have 2 IP's and the NIC is built in. Both laptops are identical Dell's. I hope this clears up some more of the confusion. My next step will to completely remove all the Windows XP communication software from C (John) and reinstall it and configure it for the internet and the LAN. This will happen on Monday as I have no access to the office until then. I'll keep you posted.

Newt, Thanks again for your suggestions but the \\John\share from Bill or BillsDesktop did not work nor did it work from John to either of them.

 

Thank you. Now we are getting somewhere.

It most certainly does help

I think my confusion has been done away with as I now see the possible cause for a missing IP.

That alone explains a lot. Especailly moving a Primary drive.

I did that ONCE with Win98 and I NEVER will again. Well I should not say never as I did do it again but did not allow the machine to boot directly to it. I booted to the Floppy and re-installed 98 over itself.

Now I will say " Good luck " and hope you do get it fixed.

And thanks again for giving me a good reason for the IP confusion.

BillyBob

 

Now that I know what was done I can see more clearly the reasons for IP confusion.

So I moved the hard drive to the other desktop as drive D

Do I read this correctly as saying that you moved a Primary drive from one machine to another as a Slave ?

If that is infact what you did do then it could be the whole problem.

Is there now a POSSIBILITY that the Router is seing two different machines ? The original OS which was more than likely 100 and now the second as 101.

And the machine names are on the HD. The IP address comes from the Router and as far as I know is not permanent on the HD. Otherwise it would not change when I change bootup order.

Again seeing the 2nd machine as 102 sure suggests it.

And the system ( network especially ) in general has absoulutely no idea which one is which so it won't anything.

BillyBob

 

Yes I moved the drive from the failed PC to PC-A computer and installed it as D. I still boot from the C drive on PC-A. Now that drive is just a file server so to speak. No programs run from it. When the network software runs on PC-A it is running from the C drive and not the D drive so the router doesn't even know the D drive exists.

 

That could be.

But if the drive that was moved still has a Primary partition ( and more than likely has a name ) on it I would not rule out the Router seing it as another machine.

I say this because unless you removed it ALL of the info from the original machine is still there.

BTW. I should have asked this a LONG time ago. Were things OK before you moved that drive ?

Have you maybe even tried removing that drive and see what happens. That just might help to provide some answers.

As of right now and for the lack of any other ideas ( wild or otherwise ) I think that the drive that was moved has a lot to do with things.

Maybe not but that is what I am thinking right now.

BillyBob

 

Something I am thinkng about.

1--Unless the Router default starting address been changed.
2--Unless there is something that I am missing or just not aware of ( very possible )
3--Unless there is a foul up in the Router itself.

In order for a machine to have and address of 192.168.1.103 the router must be seing FOUR machines.


I will be out for most of the rest of the day. But I sure will check back later.

There has to be a cause and fix for this problem. They as yet just have not been found.

BillyBob

 

Well I uninstalled the Windows Networking componet and reinstalled then setup the network and internet connections and still no go for the LAN but I can ping everyone and get on the internet just fine. I don't know what to do now.

 

Have you gone into the Router Administration and found the DHCP Client Table ?

And do that with all machine on.

That will ( or at least should ) tell you what ( or who ) is using what address.

I am willing to bet that it will show 4 addresses as being asigned. ( maybe not but it is possible )

And as far as I know you only have 3 machines,

I think we do need some of this info in order to help.

BB

 

DHCP is for the TCP/IP part of the network. That part works fine, the LAN portion using Network Neighborhood and Netbeui is what is not working.

 

I found it!!!
After hours of looking for something related I found this on the Microsoft Knowledge base. Microsoft Knowledge Base Article - 318030

Step 1: Turn On NetBIOS over TCP/IP
Click Start, click Control Panel, and then click Network and Internet Connections.
Click Network Connections.
Right-click Local Area Connection, and then click Properties.
Click Internet Protocol (TCP/IP), and then click Properties.
Click the General tab, and then click Advanced.
Click the WINS tab.
Under NetBIOS setting, click Enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP, and then click OK two times.
Click Close to close the Local Area Connection Properties dialog box.
Close the Network Connections window.

Step 2: Start the Computer Browser Service
Click Start, right-click My Computer, and then click Manage.
In the console tree, expand Services and Applications.
Click Services.
In the right details pane, verify that the Computer Browser service is started, right-click Computer Browser, and then click Start.
Close the Computer Management window.

This is the url to the article
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;318030&Product=winxp

It turns out that it was disabled all this time. So I guess I owe BillyBob an apology as it was the TCP/IP properties that caused this problem.

 

-Well that is GOOD NEWS-

Apology Accepted.

Even though it was TCP/IP related. As it tuned out it was even in a different spot than I thought of.

Or more likely forgotten about.

Even though we may not think so all of that stuff is tied together in a big bundle. I think even more so in XP. One little check mark extra or missing can allow the bundle to fall apart.

BillyBob