Which Windows? (before I FDISK/MBR)

Someone game me their laptop to play with, which is complaining of "invalid system disk ". Fine. The hard drive is good because I can access it with various (Linux and Windows) boot disks no problem. I'm about to perform FDISK /MBR from a boot disk from http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm - BUT I don't know whether the person has been using Window95a, Win95b, Win98, or Win98-SE. I also don'r know if it's OEM or not and wouldn't like to rely on their kownledge (asking them) because the "think" they were using Winfdows95.

This computer has no CD-ROM and I'm wanting to see if I can recover the system with an FDISK /MBR. At the moment if I try almost ANY (all that I have tried) boot disk, then enter C:\WINDOWS directory and then type "win ", the system complains that the version of DOS I've booted from is not compatable with Windows and to try a boot disk which matches the system.

...Do I need to find out exectly which boot disk to use or should I just FDISK /MBR from the win98-SE version? If I do need to get hte right one, how can I find out which this computer was running ? (NB: I am able to view files using EDIT from DOS boot / CAT from Linux boot disks, if it helps to be able to read them).

Thanks in advance - Lancer.


Update: When I (using a DOS boot disk) go into C:\WINDOWS and launch winver.exe the reply is "windows 95" (doesn't specify windows 95a or 95b) Second thoughts - how do I know it hasn't run an API dall on the boot disk instead of actual Windows of the system?

 

Hi Lancer,

If you post the time & date of WIN.COM it can be used to identify the version

best wishes, HJ.

 

Thanks for your quick replies...

Hugh_Jarss
Time and date of WIN.COM....is this what you mean?

C:\WINDOWS> dir win.com
WIN...COM...22,679.......07-11-95...9:50a
......1 files(s)........22,679 bytes
......0 dir(s).....264,110,000 bytes free

...is that how you find out the date? I thought that timestamp would be the age of the file as in when it was written to hard drive.


broni
Typing in VER reports "Windows 98 [Version 4.10.1998]" but I think this may be a false reading - it's probably reading the version of the boot disk I'm using. I can't get C: prompt really, at least not from the real drive (invalid system disk error) I'm only there from a boot disk which doesn't really count, as I can run Linux from there, if you get my drift... so I can't make an original boot floppy this way.

 

>> Which exact bootdisk from www.bootdisk.com are you using?
>> Is the error, you are getting: "Incorrect DOS version "?

On Windows95a, Windows95b, Windows98 and Windows98SE OEM versions (haven't tried the nonOEM because I think that's a dumb idea when the otrherrs have failed)

No - the error is "invalid system disk" at bootup. I get the complaint about wrong DOS versions if I use a boot disk, go into the C:\WINDOWS directory and execute "win.exe" from there - any of the above boot disks gives this fault.

 

Yes I did. Google led me to tha page first up. I put essential system files (autoexec.bat, config.sys, msdos.sys and io.sys) onto a floppy (using a Linux boot disk to copy them) and no virus was detected when scanning them fom my other computer. The computer in question has no CD-ROM to run Windows install - no ehternet cable either, which is why I'm now wanting to FDISK /MBR in order to replace the base system, and am asking how to verify the correct Win version beofere doing the wrong one.

 

Hi Lancer

looks like W95a to me... the only W95 I have is W95b (OSR2) which would have shown 24/08/96 11:11am

there's also a W95c I think, but that would presumably be timestamped even more recently

you'll notice that most of the files in the WINDOWS folder have the same time and date - it goes with the version - has done since old DOS days - all DOS 6.22 files have timestamp 06:22am, all Windows3.11 files are 03:11am etc...

user files are indeed timestamped at creation, but not the OS files... they keep the time they are supplied with

this works for some other apps, pkzip for example, version 2.04g shows timestamp 02:04am

best wishes, HJ.

 

Good "guess" - think you're right.

Turns out that while I'd downloaded the boot disk for 95a - it was the one I'd missed out. This time, trying the boot disk, I go into the C:\WINDOWS directory and type "win "....

I get a blue screen (like BSOD) saying:

>> VFAT Device Initialization Failed <<
A device or resource required by VFAT is not present
or is unaavailable. VFAT cannot continue loading.
System halted.


... I'm going out for a bit, but do you think FDISK /MBR C: will fix this, or am I likely to end up using repartitioning tools to try to restore this?

 

hmm - the VFAT thing - this is ringing large bells, I just wish I could remember what they decode to!

(W95b PC) I tried this: formatted a floppy, and copied on command.com (from C:\WINDOWS ), io.sys and msdos.sys (from root of C: ), didn't bother with config.sys or autoexec.bat and booted from the floppy - OK - didn't even have to type WIN - the only thing that didn't happen was the soundblaster, which needs autoexec.bat

the correct FDISK.EXE for your OS will be found in C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND as will FORMAT.COM and SYS.COM - without any doubt about crossed up versions... maybe try to construct a floppy from the files off the HDD rather than using ones from bootdisk.com perhaps?

when you get "Invalid system disk or disk error" if you've left a floppy (non-bootable) in A:, that message is actually coming from the floppy itself - it's put there during a (non-system) format. It gets removed when you sys the floppy... which leaves me wondering where your "invalid system disk" message text is actually coming from?

will try a few things and check back later.

Good luck with it all & Happy New Year, HJ.

 

Well - it looks to me like I got these choices...

* I could see what happens with a boot disk and SYS C:
* I could try a boot disk then FDISK /MBR C:
* I might use partitioning toold to rewrite the partition table as FAT32 (if it isn;t already - I think it probably already is?)
* Clever system file swapping of some sort to restore things selectively.
* Install some kind of Linux instead (floppy install variety).

Which of these are the least destructive / should I try first?
What precautions should I take / which files should I back up onto floppies?

P.S: Thanks for your help so far - it's great things are at least moving!

 

Two new parts to the puzzle...


FDISK reveals the following table...

Partition....Status...Type......Volume Label....Mbytes....System....Usage
C: 1...........A......PRI DOS...FORMATED..........737......FAT16......95%
...2..................Non-DOS......................34..................4%

I'm curious about he extra partition :-/ and was Win95a run on FAT16 instead of FAT32?




When I boot from the Win95a boot disk, got into C:/WINDOWS/COMMAND and then type FORMAT A: /S I get the following...

Insert DOS disk in drive A:
and press ENTER when ready...

When I do this - it just repeats the message without actually formatting A: at all.


...I am about to try SYS C: from a boot floppy - any objections?

 

**edit** W95a will not take FAT32!!

out of your options my gut feeling is that SYS C: is probably the least destructive - but I'd value a second opinion! (third, fourth etc...)

It does seem as though the hard drive has un-sys'd itself somehow? and sys is nowhere near as "heavy duty" as fdisk.

There is another part to making a disk bootable - a "signature" byte has to be set correctly (old Norton used to do this and claimed it did it "better" than sys.com in some way...) I think you might get that error message if the byte is wrongly set even if the system files themselves are OK.

see if you can get together a boot disk with the files from the hard drive itself - command.com, io.sys, msdos.sys, sys.com...

...so if you sys'd the HDD from that at least the system files would be guaranteed the same - I'd hope the only change made would be to set the signature byte. Nerve-wracking, though!

and could check these files are all timestamped the same, just in case...

I'd like to know what happens if you try booting from that disk before doing anything more drastic! ...could you give that a go and post back the results perhaps?

==

one thing I keep thinking of - but I dont think it's right: can get very funny and confusing things happening if the disk change detect switch in the floppy drive is making the laptop think it has a disk in the floppy when in reality it hasn't. And floppy disk detect switches are notorious. But can usually persuade them by inserting/extracting the floppy several times.

I think that message has got to be coming from your hard drive, though.

have a go with the system files from the hard drive itself & I'll see if I can dig out the old Norton... which is not going to be easy as it's now buried (and inactivated) by being on a dual boot PC, lots of bits of it got nobbled when W95 put on.

good luck, HJ.

 

>> see if you can get together a boot disk with the files from the hard drive itself - command.com, io.sys, msdos.sys, sys.com...

I'm thinking I should make a bakup forlder to contain command.com, io.sys, msdos.sys, sys.com... are these all the ones I will need?

THat way - I should be able to run SYS C: straight from the "standard" (downloaded) boot floppy, replacing the files afterwards if I need to.

...what do you think, a good way of doing it?

 

yes certainly make backup copies of what's there first. I think those are the only files affected.

You could also make use of the other PC to run FC/B to check the system files against the downloaded versions...

 

Okay - I ran SYS C: from the boot floppy - system transferred.

Then I booted from C: - it gave me options to boot in safe mode etc - I chose safe mode. It flashed the clody sky screen with big Windows logo, then exiteed to command prompt.

Now when I boot I get starting windows 95...

Then a cloud-and-big-logo splach imge with blue lines moving accross the bottom (so far so good)

Then it quickly exits back to DOS command prompt with the following on the screen...

==================================

Starting Windows 95...

Microsoft Power Manager Version 1.0
(C) Copyright Microsoft Corporation 1986m 1993
FLIP2000 is unneccesary after Jan 1, 2000
Device drver not found: 'ASPICD0'.
Device driver not found: 'BPCDDRV$'.
No valid CDROM device drivers selected.

LapLink Remote Access Kernel Module Ver 2.11
Copyright (c) 1993, Traveling Software, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.
This module has been installed

C:\>

===================================

I suppose what I do now is start copying htose system files back?

 

Hmmm - wihtout transferring any files back yet, I went into C:/WINDOWS and performed 'wininit' - then just 'win'

The computer then made a serious attempt to boot up! But it did have a lot of complaints about dependancies missing.... (maybe this will fix when I replace System.ini etc from before?)

....but then it ended with the VFAT blue screen of death

So far my homeowkr on that one is...

http://support.microsoft.com/defaul...port/kb/articles/Q139/0/63.asp&NoWebContent=1

Now there's a "We don't know the answer so we'll throw the book at you" response. I'm off to bed for now.

 

check to see what's in the autoexec.bat and config.sys on the hard drive - someting's referencing a CD etc., I'd guess it has to be there somewhere

You'll need someone clever for Laplink stuff - I know nothing about it, sorry

getting closer!

I think you could nobble autoexec.bat and config.sys (rename to something else for the while) and it might actually boot into W95 GUI now - it looks as if what's holding it are things which are'nt there but?it doesn't need them?

good luck, HJ.

 

OK sweet dreams...

I just pranged the W95PC anyway!

will check back somewhen later, see what's happened...

best wishes, HJ.