Layer of dust in CPU fan

I run my T-Bird with the side off. Every few weeks, I clean the dust out with a can of compressed air. I did compare temps with the side on, and off, and the difference wasn't significant. (It was cooler with the side off, actually) I'm not a gamer, but I do work this baby hard. Easy way to tell if a fan is blowing in or out- light a match. If I doubted my fan's reliability, I'd replace it, because it is cheaper than a new processor. If you have had brown outs, get a UPS, and keep an eye on your mobo. I've seen a few damaged by fluctuations in power. How are you measuring your system temp, anyway? From software, or your mobo?

Johanna

System has been on for 7 hours
Mobo temp 31 C (91 F)
CPU temp 50C (122F)

 

I'm using the FirstAid mainboard monitoring program that came with my mainboard.

System has been on for 15 minutes

Mainboard temp: 26 C
CPU temp: 54 C

Lid is off. When I had it on it hit 57 and then 59 not too long after.

With my old copper fan it would level off at about 49 C with the lid on. I think I was almost beter off with the old one.

 

Were the high temps and rumbling present before the brownout?

By the way, Giles, thanks for the suggestion about taping the vents on the PSU. I did so and now my temps at idle are:
25 degrees C ambient
27 degrees C case
35.5 degrees C CPU (down from 37 degrees) (It's 4 degrees higher with the case closed)

 

Shadowhawk, it sounds like your case temp is great but alas, your cpu temp could probably use some improvement - assuming the software is correctly reporting the temp. Does your bios report the temps? That's always the first place to check.

Most of the time, rattles are caused by fans. Disconnect all your case fans. This will leave your cpu fan and power supply fan running. If you still have rattle, change cpu coolers. You should be able to track down the culprit this way. There are times when power supply fans just kick the bucket and start rattling. Keep in mind that you if ever decide to replace the fan inside your power supply, if the capacitors aren't drained, you can give yourself a lethal shock.

It sounds to me like you need a quality cpu cooler. One that costs in the $20-$30 range. No offense but it sounds like you're short-changing on that. I've seen that name Uniball (or whatver) on the fan of a heatsink a long time ago. It was some inexpensive, generic one. Good names include Taisol, Thermalright, Thermaltake. All have coolers meant for specific ranges of cpus. If you tell us your cpu, I can make some recommendations.

Also, check to make sure that you don't have the HSF mounted backwards. The socket ridge must line up with the HSF indentation. I know it sounds nuts, but it has happened that such a situation causes very high temps - or more likely fried cpus.

 

To me, dust on the HSF is no. 1 suspect for out of left field problems.

As for running with the side off, some work just fine (and maybe even better). Some cases want the sides on and will run hotter if not on.

 

Hi.

This is going to be a little tricky but I'll try and get it right.

The max temperature for a T-Bird 1.4 is 95C. The nominal or average temp for an idle T-Bird 1.4 is about 45C. Up and running a game for a few minutes the temp will probably be up around 52C to 54C.

Using the "fifteen rule" say your ambient temp is 70F-21C and the idle cpu temp is 113F-45C. Thats 43F-6C difference. Half that is 21.5F--6C. Add that half to the 70F-21C and you get 91.5F-33C. That should be the happy meeting ground for ambient-CPU temperatures. Now for the "fifteen rule ". You add fifteen degrees (F) for a cpu generating heat and covered with a heat sink and inside a closed case. That would make your cpu 106.5F-41.5C.

106.5F-41.5C compensated for actual room ambient temp other than 70F-21C should be your cpu temp at idle.

If your case temp and the cpu temp is about "fifteen" degrees (F) apart then everything should be right.

AMD cpus run hotter than Intel and can take that temp ok. They are rated at 95C FULLY OPERATIONAL.

There is one more thing to check, your temperature probe. Most temp probes can be set with a default and most monitor programs can be set with a default for a particular probe. The only way I've been able to accurately check on a probe is to get one of those electronic indoor/outdoor temperature probes and bury the outdoor one around the cpu. Try different places over a period of time to see if your mobo probe is accurate. Something to do, doesn't hurt anything and its fun. Besides, you can always mount it on the wall when you're finished.

Last thing. I got the 95C from AMD. The "idle" and "up and running" temps I got from experience. You can argue those but I think they are pretty accurate. Enlightenment welcome.

I should also say that a temp of 55C-57C for an AMD 1.4 is perfectly acceptable. Forget it and go have fun.

Giles

 

Hi.

Now for the second part, cooling down the cpu.

Case fans do little to nothing to cool down the cpu. If you have a front fan pulling in and a back fan (below the power supply) blowing out it does nothing for the cpu. The power supply fan is sucking heat from all over the motherboard directly across the cpu. The cpu fan is sucking and blowing how air to start with because none of the fresh outside air is getting to the cpu. If you have just a front fan blowing in then that air collects heat from all over the motherboard, goes across the cpu, then is blown out by the power supply fan.

There is only one way to cool down the cpu and that is to get FRESH air from outside the case directly under the cpu. The hot air from the cpu is thusly sucked away by the power supply exhaust. If you just blow air around inside the case it does nothing.

Make a tube (with elbows if necessary) out of cardboard and duct tape. Tape (or afix) it to a fan blowing into the case. Preferably one of the back fans, the front ones are partially blocked by the front of the case. Run the other end of the tube right under the cpu. Button up the case, turn everything on and your temp should be down. After that, just make a real good one and have at it. Another goody is to do a tube on the top of the cpu and afix it to a fan blowing out.

You also don't need a large fan. Sometimes a cpu fan itself mounted so it can get to fresh air works great.

Hope this helps.

Giles

 

A note to Shadowhawk and others following this thread.

A good friend of mine has read this thread and sent me an email describing his observations:

"I read the thread and have three comments as an AMD user:

1.) Do you remember me complaining about a strange noise in my computer - first it was the fan on
those removeable drive enclosures - but the real noisy one was the little fan that was mounted on the
motherboard - I took it off - stretched the plastic connector pins and put it back in - that was two or
three months ago - no more noise - it was vibrating.

2.) I have found that my AMD does run much cooler with my side cover off - in fact, believe it or not, it
runs 5 degrees cooler and I have verified this with my MBProbe. I have also found that each fan I
install in my case (with the cover on) reduces the CPU temperature by 3 to 4 degrees.
My CPU temp was a constant 122F (50C) (with little or no load)
I added a fan and the temperature dropped to 119F (48.3C)
I added another and the temp dropped to my current 116F. (46.6C)
By the way, my system was filthy because it is in my basement where I do my wood working - so no matter what I do - there is always a thin layer of dust on my surfaces, but the computer was loaded - cleaning it completely (I took everything out , cleaned it and put it back together) - only dropped the temperature 1 degree.

3.) The fan in the front of the case has no significant effect on the cooling process - unless - you raise
the front end of your tower to allow for proper air flow - I put a 1/4" wood shim under the front - back
past the front panel - this raised it above the carpet and allows for proper air flow - again my
temperature dropped.

I am constantly experimenting with the temp because I think my AMD cpu is running too hot.
The lowest I have been able to get the temp was 106F (41.1C) degrees with 0 to 5% load.
This was achieved by removing the side panel and placing a small portable fan directly in front of the CPU "

His reference to "a little fan mounted on the motherboard" may be a fan over top of the chipset on his motherboard.
I looked at a photo of your FIC AD11 board Shadowhawk and I see no fan on it.

This friend of mine whom I will refer to as "Quickslam" is well versed in computer hardware going WAY back as is Giles, my other good friend.
In fact, each week, we three get together for lunch and you guessed it, the main topic of conversation is COMPUTERS

Daddad

 

Hi.

Thats interesting. He reduced his cpu temp from 122F-50C down to 106F-41C with a small fan blowing directly onto his cpu.

Thats the same as piping FRESH air directly onto the cpu I mentioned above. Works.

Giles

 

I just put in a Thermal Take Dragon Orb II HSF with Arctic Silver paste. Now my CPU temp is 42 C. Of course it's only been on a few minutes, but at least it's not jumping up near 60 C like with the other one. *shakes all over*

 

Congrats!! Way to go. Keep a track and post back. You might be able to help a lot of people out there. Sometimes pop the case and put a small fan right on the cpu and see what the temp runs. That would be very interesting also.

Nice setup.

Giles

 

This is funny. I returned the other fan which cost $14.99 and this fan cost $24.99. I also bought a tube of Arctic Silver, which I thought would be about $3.00. So I thought I'd only pay around $13 for both, but I end up paying $26.49 because the little tube of Arctic Silver cost the same as the CPU fan I returned. I almost keeled over backwards when I found that out.

After all the ****, the rumbling sound is still happening in my machine. It's not as noticeable now, probably because of the noise of the new fan. So I think the rumbling is just something left over from the blackouts that I'm gonna have to get used to. The machine is OK otherwise, so I'll just keep an eye on it and see how it does. Two more weeks till XP, God help me.

 

What I did to cool my AMD 2500+ was to first install a casefan over the PCI and AGP slots to blow in air. Next I put a case fan above the CPU to blow out. I have cut out a heatpipe(bass-reflexpipe] to put in the front, so the front fan can get lot's of fresh air. No done yet though.
My temp?
CPU dropped from 56C to 48C-49C
System temp(case temp) from 34C to 28C. and when the pipe is done, well, I dunno. I guess about a 47 and 26-27C's.
And then rounded IDE cables help to if you're using a frontfan, so I'm getting those, and a floppy cable.

 

Shadowhawk, (I'd try this, but you don't need to) touch panels, fan frames with the system running. Should lead you to where the vibration is coming from.

Giles, wow, top stuff.

I'd just like to add that it is important when installing a heat sink to make sure that air is not trapped in the thermal compound. It acts as an insulant. It is also possible for problems to arise from putting too much or too little thermal compound on. A good guide is at the Arctic website.

Matt

Current idle temps: system 33C/93F, CPU 43C/109F
AMD 1700, full tower case, 1 case fan.

 

Good job, Shadowhawk, your new cooler has undoubtedly helped. The Dragon Orb II isn't top-of-the-line but it should be adequate. In most cases (no pun), a good cpu cooler is all you really need to get nice cpu temps - as long as you have some intake and exhaust fans. Rocket science isn't really necessary. Yeah, Arctic Silver is a little pricier than you'd think.

To the suggestion of ducting a rear fan as intake to the cpu: they sell kits just for this. One important gadget included is a "deflector" so that you don't just draw in the warm air exhausted by the power supply or an exhaust fan just above.

 

I am confused. Some people say to turn the rear exhaust fan into an intake to cool the CPU, while others say don't.
For example (from RavenTai: "most of the time you will get the best effect from ballanced intake and exhaust fans, if they were both intakes then they would be fighting eachother trying to presurize the case, as the presure a fan fights increases (caused by other fans, filters, grills, or other restrictions) the ammount of air if flows drasticly decreases

you could try it and see and it may infact slightly improve CPU temps as you are injecting outside air right into the cou area but cooling for other components will be much worse becasue of the reduced overall flow and all the CPU's heat is being blwn arround into the case instead of being directly drawn out by the rear mounted exhaust ")

Under what circumstances would it be better to pressurize the system, pushing the exhaust out through the PSU and vents, and under what circumstances would it be better to maintain a balanced flow front to back?

 

Having a full tower, I have the convenience of two 80mm rear fans. Theoretically, I could duct one as intake to the cpu and use the other as exhaust. If I didn't have two rear fans, I wouldn't do this as I don't want to rely solely on the PSU for exhaust.

The key is that the rear intake must be fully ducted and "isolated ". If you just have a rear fan blowing in and another rear fan (or PSU) blowing out then you've got the mess described in your post.

 

A few months ago I got a call, and from the symptoms, suspected an overheating issue. When I got to the computer, there it was, on a desk in front of a bright sunny window, with a towel covering it and blocking the vents in the back (to keep the dust off, she explained). IME, AMDs run a little hotter than the others, and that's normal. As long as you aren't noticing problems, I wouldn't worry about a few degrees. The original rattle ShadowHawk mentioned was important and quite rightly, he checked into it. Sometimes, that's the first clue that a fan is going bad- extra noise. ShadowHawk- when are you going to XP?? I hope you share your opinion of the difference.

Johanna

 

I hope to go to XP Pro in 2 weeks. I'm doing backups of my important stuff. BTW, I'm a girl!

 

OMG! Girls on the forum! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!