Firewall

I have the free version of Tiny Personal Firewall. It seems to work well but maybe "seems" ain't good enough. the one that I have is from a year ago or so. I don't think they offer the free version any longer. I also have the XP firewall on.

What should I do.

I have 1.7gig Processor/256 Ram/WIN XP

Thanks

 

Hello swabbie,

If Tiny doesn't offer updates to the free version any longer, here are some free Firewalls to consider:

ZoneAlarm free: Forum here http://forums.zonelabs.com/zonelabs

Sygate Forum here http://forums.sygatetech.com/vb/

Picked these two because they work differently.

ZA is "application" (meaning giving permission for applications to have access to the Net) and "zone" (meaning protection is on the intranent - internet level with setting for each) based.

Sygate is "rule" based. It also gives permission to APPS and has options to block on the IP level.

BTW, you are part of a minority that run ICF - Xp's Firewall along with a 3rd party one. I do as well, works just fine. I know for some it doesn't

Regards - Charles

 

Thanks Charles,

Tiny does not offer updates. I have tried Zone Alarm and at the time I prefered Tiny. For some reason Zone Alarm seemed a little bulky and slowed me a little I think. I remember that I tried uninstalling Zone Alarm and had to reformat by the time all was over. I don't remember all the ends and out of it.

I may go back to it but I think I will look around a little. I may even purchase the Tiny because I do like it.

Thanks again,

 

the_swabbie30

GO find Kerio. ( Tinys' Replacement )

Has has a free Home use version and works very well.

Turn off XPs useless Firewall it only blocks INCOMING anyway.

BillyBob

 

Hello BillyBob,

"Turn off XPs uses less Firewall it only blocks INCOMING anyway. "

Which is exactly what I find so useful in running ICF. My main Firewall is a lot less "noisey" having to deal with that much less.

Regards - Charles

 

Thanks ya'll, Keep it up. It's the way us computer dummies learn.

Have a great weekend,

 

Are you saying that you have ( or had ) two firewalls running.

If this is true then things may more "noisey" than you think.

And you also have two programs doing the same job. Of the two Kerio does more.

Also by not blocking outgoing you may be allowing more incoming than you care to.

But I also keep forgetting that I have a Router also which stops most of the incoming anyway. So Kerio is only really working on the outgoind side mostly.

By being faily new to XP I do not know how to find out what the XP firewall is doing anyway. But I do not need it either.

The combo of the Router and Kerio are doing Fine.

BillyBob

 

I uninstalled the Tiny and installed Kerio. IT IS and upgraded Tiny. I also have a router/hub from LINKSYS.

WINDOWSBBS makes me sleep better!

Thanks,

 

Hi BillyBob,

I'm currently running Sygate on XP along with ICF. Sygate does all the things a top tier Firewall does, blocking in/out and withholding/giving App permissions.

Once I had ZAPRO running on XP, took it off and is currently running on my 9X OS.

Ran both firewalls alone for a while to see what the differences were (at different times - not together). Both had a lot more activity, kind of obvious if you think about.

Since I did not notice any improvement in performance w/o ICF,
re-started it and have been running it w/o any problems.

So yes, I'm running two firewalls on XP.

Regards

 

Is that a Router/Hub or Router/Switch ?

Mine is a Router 4 port Switch.

The difference ( I believe ) is that the Switch keeps the LAN & the WAN separated. A hub does not.

Also if you do have a Router all ( or most of the ) activity should be outgoing.

BillyBob

 

LINKSYS

I have a 4 port Linksys BEFSR41. I always called it a hub/router but it appears it is a router/switch ???

They did not have all this stuff way back when I was patching circuits in Navy Communications Technical Controls. Just hugh rooms with thousands upon thousands of holes and very large wire fames.

This is much more exciting but the more I understand the more I know I am absoutley lost. haha

Thank you very much,

 

Yup. Your BEFSR41 is a router/switch. And they have been around for quite a while but not as a combined device and not at any price us normal mortals could afford.

A switch is very similar in function to a hub but is lots faster and more efficient due to some operating logic a hub can't handle.

Hub - 10Mbps speed and divided among all the devices plugged into it.
Switch - 100Mbps delivered to each port if the connected device can handle it.

Hub - half-duplex traffic (TX or RX but not both)
Switch - full duplex (RX & TX simultaneously) if the connected device can handle it.

Hub - just spews a broadcast when any connected device wants to talk to another device. Lets them worry about when and if they connect to some other device. Lots of noisy traffic.
Switch - mostly knows where the other devices are and directs the connection.

 

Thanks Newt, You are always good reading.

 

BTW Newt, I was raised in Burlington, NC. Left at 18 for the USN.

 

to BillyBob

Suggesting that WindowsXP's Internet Connection Firewall is useless is simply nonsense. If it's useless, try turning it off and see how safe your computer is with no firewall. The fact is that ICF is easy to set up and highly effective.

I certainly agree that we also need to "police" outgoing stuff from the computer, too, and firewall programs that handle that are definitely a plus. But let's not forget that many, many computer users do NOT understand ports, permissions, blocking, etc. and, therefore, they may well find the technical-jargon approach of most firewall set-ups to be very very confusing or intimidating.

Many users are very happy to have Windows and their software auto-update itself which requires internet access without alert/warning messages intruding everywhere (or more configuration fun!).

AdAware or Spybot offer a quick and easy way to detect and remove UN-AUTHORISED outgoing stuff on our computers and is easier to to set up and use by far than ZA or Tiny or others.

Remember, I'm not saying ZA and others aren't worth having, I'm just saying they are not the be-all and end-all. OK?

Regards

 

Windows XP ICS is USELESS if you as the USER want to have control of your machine.

If I did turn the software Firewall off I would not be quite as safe I agree. But, only because I would have NO control of what goes out. And what goes out can leave a hole for something to get in.

And with the software Firewall I also have COMPLETE control of what goes where over the LAN. I do not believe XP ICS will do that. And with the Router/Switch I can pull the plug on the Modem and still have the LAN. Just no Internet.

Auto Updating messed me up ONCE and it will not do it again. It put in an update that I did not need and messed me up.

I do not need ( or want ) Windows Internet Connection sharing.

I have three machines ( XP, 98SE and 98FE ) and each one has its own independent access to the Internet regardless of whether any other machine is on or not. Thanks to the Router. Which BTW is a VERY good Substitute for the XP built in Firewall.

And each one has its own independent Firewall and Anti-Virus software.

And unless we are speaking of a different ICS it needs one main PC to be on at all times. To me that stinks. One thing I think ( have not really looked though ) is that the ICS in 98 and the ICS in XP are different things. ICS in XP may include the INCOMING Firewall where 98 does not.

Also I do not need ( or want ) Microsoft Windows Controlling anything.

With the Router and Kerio I do not need ( or want ) Microsoft Windows sticking its dam nose in where it is not wanted or needed. All I want from Windows is the OS. I will take care of who does what and when.

I much prefer to control what goes on. And much to my surprise XP is very easy to do that with. Even easier than I thought.

Bottom line.
I have not, do not and will not allow Microsoft to control my machines. For those that want or like it is fine by me. But for me NO WAY. I know what Windows is capable of doing. I just do not want it doing it.

Unless under special circumstaces there is no need to understand ports etc. With Kerio ( and others ) we either allow or deny it to come in or go out.

Most Firewalls today are Auto set during install to Block and ask before allowing. ( and should be no other way ) And then we either allow or Deny. I personally do not see anything technical or intimidating about it.

BillyBob

 

I need to correct an error in my previous reply.

I referred to ICS. But it should be ICF.

Different things.

Either case I still do not need or want it.

BillyBob

 

Hi all,

Hi,

Just my 2 cents but any rules based fire wall can be confuseing if you have never used one or understand the rules and how they work. Always from top to bottom. Sure there are a few FW out there that you can set and forget so to speak but its all in the position of the rules that makes a fire wall work. Tweaking of the local/remote port end points helps as well.

I use Kerio 2.1.5 hooked up with a Linksys router/switch on a cable modem. and can control what goes in or out by setting new rules or adjusting old ones.... no other way to go !!!!


The order of the rules only is important for function, however many peole like to keep them orgainzed into groups while also considering their order so they work properly. If you want something allowed, make sure there is no rule above it that would block it first, and if you want something blocked, make sure there is no rule that would allow it first.

Basic Rules.... as a rule of thumb I use this and is what i was taught.

DHCP
DNS
ICMP
Block all other ICMP
LoopBack

These are the most basic settings for the fire wall to work correctly and if one does not know this and how to configure them
then what was the sence of installing the fire wall?


Regards,

FireDancer

 

I must be COMPLETELY missing something somewhere.

I have put Kerio on three machines and have not set a rule yet. And NOBODY gets in or out of either machine without going through Kerio.

FireDancer

Tweaking of the local/remote port end points helps as well.

I believe you are referring to what I referred to as special circumstances. That would require some extra work. But I do not believe that even comes ( or even should come ) into play for the average user.

I have NEVER had to do anything other than allow or Deny access. Even with NORTON. Installed it and forgot it till the guestion of let it go or not came up.

Even before I got the Router I did not have to mess with any other settings. But NOrton was sure BUSY on the incoming side.

Yes. How and what for the machine in used does come into play.

Most Firewalls are not as tough as you are trying to make them out to be. Most default install settings are just fine for the AVERAGE user.

BillyBob

 

Hiya BillyBob,

I guess I was trying to add a little insight to those who might be thinking of getting into a rule based firewall. And you are right in as much as you can set n forget Kerio, Sygate, ZA and multitudes of others on the net today.

Unfortunatley, if you set and forget your puter is more likely to get Whacked then the one where the rules are set tighter.
Such as limiting what ports are used by certain applications

Let me see the default in Kerio for DNS setting is I believe set to

UDP both ways local endpoint any/any and remote endpoint any/any. Simply put that leaves a huge gap for a hacker to find his way in thru your system at least more of a gap then setting the DNS to
UDP both ways local 1024-5000 remote endpoint (specific DNS IP address) port 53

These are very simple rules and much more effective then the defaults.

Yes, I agree with you that most firewalls are NOT tuff, and good for the average user, but unless a individual is going to take the time to learn about and use his product to it's potential we might as well just start promoting ZA (free version)

And I guess we should hope the average user doesnt go into Advanced/admin and start playing around with settings if they dont know what thier doing.. god forbid they move a default rule to the bottom of the pile,... might just end up not being able to log onto the internet after that!

BillyBob, more power to you if you are comfy with your settings in short it is your system not mine I was just trying add a little insight to making a firewall more effective.

Very best regards,
FireDancer