shared folders keep disappearing

Hi all.

I have an odd issue with my p2p(8 xpp's) LAN.

After a while, certain shared folders mysteriously disappear from My Network Places, so i must add them back over and over again.

It happens randomly (i think) to different shared folders, on all of network pc's.

Is there a medication ?

Thanks a lot

 

Map Network Drives

I would try mapping the network drives on the problem computer. Then, of course, reboot.

 

If you are still having this problem:
this will happen on any network, the my network places is not a permentant store. As pointed out what you need are drive mappings. but on a P2P drive mappings will also disapper. the problem is that you do not have name servers to retain information about the network. The best way to go is make sure any PC with a share hosted on it has a static IP address not a DHCP'd address. Then map your drives using ip address rather than by name ie:
\\192.168.1.10\share and not \\myxpcomputer\share. that way the imformation remains static.

Hope that help
Bill Lunam
www.kinetics.co.nz

 

Well, mapping 10 shared folders is fairly impractical. It would make a giant "My Computer ".
I do use dhcp on my router, and some previous attempts to turn it off and set static addresses were unsuccessful - network was freezing (maybe because there is nothing then to assign IP addresses to (simple)switches - switches must have IP addresses too, isn't it?)

Is there some workaround for this? What about WINS, isn't it a part of Win XP?
Also, there are some settings of "share time out" & "lanman memory" as i can recall.

Thanks

 

Thats your first problem. You have to many shares. Note Desktops OS's have a limit of 10 user connections. More than that you need a server product. rather than having 10 shares (my guess is you have 10 computers 1 per computer). ID one computer on which to store documents etc and create a couple of shares on that. install tape drive and backup software on that computer, don't use it as a workstation let it set there as a file server.

Switchs do not use IP address (unless you ahve expensive managed switchs). If satic Ip did not work then you must have the wrong logic to your IP. example
DHCP server (router) Ip address 192.168.0.1 and a DHCP range of 192.168.0.10-50 always use a mask of 255.255.255.0. That makes your default gateway the same as the router which is your DHCP server. Asuumming your DNS serevr is also the router (at the command prompt on a workstation type
ipconfig /all and it will tell your the defualt gateway, mask, dns settings.

Set up your "server" computer as 192.168.0.100 with the same mask, gateway and DNS as the other computers.

most likley your problem was you used the wrong IP info or gave a static address the same as some ones DCHP'd (dynamic) address.

For wins to work you need a WINs server and that means the Windows Server products.

With 10 computers you really should look at the MS SBS Server 2003 R2. Its a excellant product.

Yes there are share timeout settings but really you need to look at your logic of having 10 shares. i work with networks of from 5 to 25'000 users and on none of those would I have 10 shares.

Bill
www.kinetics.co.nz

 

When you add these shares in "My network Places" I assume you're using the "Add a Network Place" option. Are you adding them by IP address or computer name?

If you're adding them by IP address that's your problem. When your router renews the IP address to the client computers it may not give the same IP address everytime.

Instead, make sure all your computers are in the same workgroup and add the shares by computer name in "My Network Places ". This way when the IP address lease runs out and DHCP renews the IP address, My Computer Places" will still find them and they won't disapper.

Hope this helps.

PBiZ

 

pheo
I used to work a lot with peer to peer networks and found that with out a name server you can't rely on names on the network. It generates a lot of boradcasting, browsing and elections etc with the information being often out of date. I found the best way was to uuse a static IP on any device that shared files or printer then to map by IP. These network never had anyone on site who knew about computers, once i seattled on the static IP and map by IP the number of calls - I'cant print, I can't find the files ect dropped right off. On a server based network its names every time, but with out something to maintain a name/ip table it seems to turn flaky.

 

Well, I found on small P2P networks if a router is used to supply the internet connection it does a pretty good job of tying computer names to IP address. Almost as good as DNS. Here is a copy and paste from my Linksys router table.

Client Host Name IP Address MAC Address Expires
Cayro 192.168.1.100 00:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx 23:29:15
Alex 192.168.1.102 00:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx 23:41:58
cassie 192.168.1.103 00:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx 19:50:33
Damasics 192.168.1.106 00:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx 16:36:07

These are my kid’s computers and my computer on my small home network. 3 of these connections are wireless and mine is wired. I have shares on each of these computers and I've added them to "My Network Places" by name over 2 years ago and have yet to lose one in MNP.

Now Nepo9 doesn't say if he's using a router or not but I would assume he is unless he is paying extra to his ISP for 10 internet connections.

I would also go on to add that if Nepo9 is adding his shares by computer name and still loosing them he has a faulty router and should replace it.

Later,

PBiZ

 

Many thanks to blunam and Pharo for the comprehensive explanations.

Have now the better picture of the nature of this issue.

Always adding network places by comp names, and have a cheap TPLink router.

I'd have a couple more questions.

1)
I know about limit of 10 user connections, and my network doesn't exceed that limit (8 comps), but some pc's have 2 net shares, so that on certain comps i have up to 12 network folders. Is these 12 net shares in MNP counted as 8 or 12 connections - VIQ(very important question)??
(And i should add that it happens even to computers which have only 5-6 shares in MNP to lose a couple of them occasionally)

If i can summarize, there are 2 potential culprits:
a)Windows and b)Router
maybe it should be put to a vote , but the most important -it wasn't me

2)
As for file server, my concern is that server might be a bottle neck when 8 comps (or even 2-3) tries to access its hard disk.

3)
I am very interested in server technology but don't know what extra knowledge is needed for that. Is SBS based on Active Directory as win2000 is. I bought certain (older) book about Active Directory (2000), but didn't touch it yet.
What do you think about efforts i should make to gain control over server technology?

Thanks again

 

The WinXP 10 PC limitation only counts on how many computers can connect to 1 WinXP computer. Not how many computers you can 1 XP computer connect to.

A file server in a workgroup would be a better solution for all your network shares in your small network. All you would have to do is stand up a Win 2000or 2003 server, join it to your workgroup, move the shares to the files server and give all the users the permissions to the shares.

But I would avoid a MS domain server if I were you. If you put up a MS domain server in native mode, a MAC powerbook or Linux box will not be able to join that domain.

Later,

PBiZ

 

On holding that many shares on a single computer - the idea is to have less shares and really its not that much of a speed impact as you are not constantly reading files like a database. If you look at the logic of how you access files its likley that only one at a time is being opened.

I do have a different out look from pharo. I would say SBS 2003 standard (that gets you exchange a well). If you went server 2000 or 2003 I would say as a DC that gives you login scripts, AD for a consistant user info store, the ability to to use group plocies etc. In fact to my mind making it a DC is where you get the value from buying the server and users licnses. I don't look after mac or linux myself but we do have them out ther on AD based networks and connection to shares and printers etc.

Interesting that the linksys held the the DNS names in assoication with the DHCP address. I had not sen that before as typically (these days) we have DNS and DHCP on a server on Internet connections that do need a router (like ADSL) the router has a firewall behind it anyway so I never bother to look at the DHCP table. Just has checked my SMC at home and it does not retain a DNS table, so the linksys it a bit more versatile.

 

That means connection limit is not the problem in my case?

Do i join 2000 to the workgroup and add user permissions as in XP, or i have to learn something more about it?

What would be DC & AD?

Thanks

 

This is interesting, what's the licensing cost for say, 10 uesrs?

TIA,

PBiZ

 

Correct.

No it's not much different; you would be able to figure it out. Now if you were to go with a DC (Domain Controller) you would get more flexibility with user permissions, group and a host of other things. But I wouldn't think you would need it is such a small network.

Now I've never looked into SBS but it sounds pretty good. I wonder if you were to stand up a SBS server and it had enough disk space, RAM and CPU power, could you also use it for a file server. It shouldn't get that much demand from a 10 user network even if it were running Exchange. My servers at work get pounded 20x as hard and handle it well.

blunam, what do you think?

Later,

PBiZ

 

Tpically a SBS server will be doing file/print/exchnage and though AD managing the network. With 10 users a single server will do all that, we have a number of clients in the 5 - 50 user range taht can work quite happly of a SBS server. Its really worth checking SBS out as a product. It has a number of wizrdas that simply mangement and a lot more features work out of the box than on full version. It even has features not in standrad. For example web absed wizard for importing workstations and profiles + a thing called remote web work place (RWW) which uses RDP thoug a redirection to give you terminal server and workstaton RDP access. Note we never use the SBS as a terminal server those who need one we install a seprate box. there are 2 evrsions of SBS the permium version also includes SQL and ISA. You by one user call which covers all the products. With the R2 version the SQL and Exchange can even be on another box using the same SBS user cals.

PD a DC is a domain controler and AD is Active directory. Every DC holds a copy of AD.

I don't know about your pricing but here in NZ there are plenty of bundled deals on Serevr with SB server (which comes with 5 user cals) extra user calls are around NZ$180 (there is about 3 NZ$ to 1 Euro), so its a cheap buy.

I would suggest savining yourself a lot of troule and getting someone in to set it up for you. With the Exchange you get
Single mail storeage
OWA (Outlook Web access - email in a web page)
user CAL includes a Outlook 2003 cal
OMA (outlook mobile access, install exchange SP2 and you have push mail to PDA's)
RPC ver HTTP (we use it over HTTPS) which gives you Outlook 2003 syncrohising over the Internet with out a VPN
Share calenders address books etc
Public folders

+ with the SBS server installed you can
use login scripts
have internal DNS and WINS
user Sharepoint (unless you go the permium version its only on a MSDE database)
install WSUS to manage patching and updating workstations
Use group plocies to controll Office data locations etc

I do recomemnd getting a real backup application (Symantec backupexec for SBS) and a good tape drive.

Its not over kill for 10 users. If you are a bussiness then remeber all your competion use these tools. They can add a lot of value to your bussiness.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/sbs/default.mspx

If you don't know who to ask for advice send me your location and contact details and I will find you a good local Microsoft partner.

 

If you go this route one thing I would advice is if you don't know how to maintain a Microsoft network, hire someone that does. If you outsource it, make sure it's a local source that can support you during regular business hours!

Here in Kingman Arizona, (small town USA) too many business make the mistake of getting their network all setup without a service agreement or they hire someone that already has a full time job. This works OK for a while until something goes wrong at 9:30 AM and your end users have to wait until 5:00 PM for support.

I’ve seen this happen myself when I moon lighted a few jobs after hours for some small businesses here in town. After several calls while I was at work, I finally told these businesses the above advice.

As a result, I no longer moon light because I can’t support these businesses during regular business hours.

Later,

PBiZ

 

That is very good advice. Here we operate at the higer end of the market in our charge out rates. I'm always amazed when we meet new clients the poor quality of the support they get. People often forget the good support is not just techicial skills its, service, understanding the bussiness and what they need and more than just what you do, its the decsions you make need to work and still be good decsions 2 - 3 years later. I'm a Movell guy more than a MS guy, put I understand what hurts clients and no matter what i do, install a printer or install a server - i get it right first time and make sure it works the way the client wants to use it. Plus we 14 engineers so we can always respond when its urgent. I love IT.... but its not a game its a bussiness tool.

 

I agree it is amazing. Even before I agreed to do the work for these businesses I made sure they understood that I wouldn't be available to support it. I made sure someone was trained on the basics, looking at event logs, backup job logs, and adding/deleting users in a timely manner, all those things.

But within 6 weeks someone ether quit or forgot how to do it. These businesses had 30 or 40K invested in their equipment and software and somehow thought it would just maintain itself.

A lot of these businesses bought the equipment and software from an out-of-town company that would come in, set it up and say good by. There was no training, no SA, just a manual written in geek speak. I would get the call because I knew the people who owned the business. I didn't want to leave my friends hanging so I took on the job.

Most of the work was only half done, the server was up and the app worked but no Antivirus, every user was in the domain admin group, no other groups, no security, nothing. It was just a mess.

One place has one server doing AD, Print and file, SQL (several database) as well as their web page. All on 1 gig of RAM and 60 gig of disk space. The server and network was wide open. I was in shock; it was expected to support about 75 end users. It took a few weeks and several thousand dollars to fix this. The owner had no idea he was in over his head. I guess that's what happens when your business takes off over night like his did.

He's in much better shape today and has a much better understanding of his computer needs. He got lucky, his business survived, a lot of others didn't.

Anyway, don't let this happen to you nep09. Remember, I've never seen a network get smaller, they tend to grow. Sometimes faster then you would expect. Keep an eye out for what's coming down the road.

Good luck,

PBiZ

 

Huh hah where to start?

Your advices to "hire someone" are inapplicable because i'm that "someone ".

So far i did all that IT work in a small firm quite well:
- p2p network maintenance and upgrade (i started with 2 comps)
- ntfs and firewall restrictions and permissions
- backup system on several levels (saved life many times)
- antispyware and antivirus protection and scans
- hardware (&software) upgrade planning and equipment purchase
- hardware (&software) repairs and replacements
- website design & maintenance

The problem here is a potential need to step into server based network.

As i said, i've bought 2 books recently (Win2000 server and Active Directory), but since i don't have w2000 installed on any machine i can't start with "investigation" yet. I'm planning to get a couple of old 'trash' machines to make some kind of net lab.
It could be SBS as well, but i think W2000 is much cheaper and i already have W2000 literature.

This server only should connect the machines. None of (3) net printers has network card thus i don't need a print server. Exchange server is not needed as well. I think i could survive without file server either.
So what do you think, would i be able to include the server in my network just for the simplest purpose - connection shared folders of the net comps (do you have some links, tutorials or so)?
I have faith in Pharo's words

although it's in contradiction to:

and to:

One more thing;
Pharo said

i feel that would be a way to go.
edit: oops, i mixed up DC and AD. What is Domain Controler exactly, and is it possible to stand up a server without DC (and/or AD)?

Many thanks

 

Windows 2000 and DFS

Why not set up a Windoze 2000 network PDC ... sorry DC, and use a DFS to set up the shares.