Alternative Browser

Hey Samson, sounds good, glad to hear someone say that about Opera, because it looks to have some impressive features that I would like be able to utilize.

I got to thinking (?) that maybe I ended up with a "bad install" or downloaded a bad version or something or somehow got ahold of a beta or even alpha release, cause it was doing really weird stuff that I would not expect people to put up with (like clicking on the trash can icon in "notes" opens a "new account wizard" panel...and F4 still opens a blank page...).

I have the free version, 7.11, build 2882 for XP. Maybe it's just that specific deployment of Opera that's so buggy?

Anyway, I think I am going to let it sit there for a while and wait for them to fix whatever the problem is and hope that I can get a non-problematic version some day soon, because I can't even work successfully with bookmarks in Opera and for me that's a real show stopper. Meanwhile, I will likely be trying to shake down Firebird some more, and using SlimBrowser as my interim replacement for IE.

Anyone else recently run into a nest of bugs with Opera 7.11.2882 for XP?

EDIT: are you using the paid version of Opera and if so is there really any differences with the paid version othe than the elimination of the ads???

 

keywester, it's possible you got a bad installation. I have read on the Opera forums about lots of problems that I have never seen, and they're often blamed on the installation. Not that Opera doesn't have a lot of problems anyway..... but maybe all the alternatives do too.

I've used 7.11 build 2882 and 2887, both are fine on my Win 98SE. AFAIK the only advantage of the registered version is no ads.

I had the same negative reaction after importing bookmarks from IE, but for the life of me I can't now remember what the problem was. I think it works all right, it's just "different ". And maybe the features I lost weren't so important after all.

I have the impression that Opera has a rather small programming staff, and that causes things to drop through the cracks. The "use image as wallpaper" option was there in version 7.03 but is greyed out in 7.11. And a banking site I use worked fine with 7.03 but won't with 7.11. Oh well, stuff happens. If there was a perfect browser we'd all use it.

 

What's to manage?

Start by pressing F4 (as you do for Mail, History, Contacts, Notes, Transfers, etc) Click Bookmarks. What do you see below that?

Well, actually... if you're anything like me, you'll see a total mess of a list 'cos I keep forgetting to put things in the right places. It's a shambles!

But...

The point is that you don't need to see any kind of order there. There's a much better way of managing bookmarks. Like this...

See the box labelled QuickFind at the top of the Bookmarks?

Click in there and start typing

a

Every bookmark that has an 'a' anywhere in the URL or the description or title or the shortcut will now appear.

as

The list of bookmarks is now narrowed down to just those with 'as' in them.

ast

You're probably looking at about 20 sites now.

astr

I'm now looking at just:
Cambridge Astronomy
Astronomy Picture of the Day
The Jargon Lexicon
Institute of Astronomy

So...

The point is that you don't need any organisation in your bookmarks.

[pause]

I said 'shortcut' back up there. "What's a shortcut?" you may ask. Well...

Let's say that you come to the Windows BBS every day. Well, instead of having to choose a bookmark each time you want to come here, simply add a shortcut to this bookmark and call it 'wb'.

Now, each time you want to come here, you just type wb into the addressbar and press enter.

Voila!

And you can have as many shortcuts as you like. Or as many as you can remember.

 

Brianlj wrote

Maybe you don't, Brian, but I do! I don't find your way "much better" ... I find it absolutely chaotic! Besides, why should I have to remember a whole list of arcane "shortcuts "?

I don't like the Hotlist concept, and never use it. I want to work from the Bookmark list on the menu bar, and I don't want my bookmarks alphabetized ... I want them prioritized. Opera won't allow that at all, but Firebird makes it quite easy.

 

<chkl> The point is that, with bookmarks, most people spend ages trying to remember where they put stuff. If they're a neat and tidy sort of person, they'll spend many a long hour arranging them into different categories and making up lots of folders with deeply meaningful titles that they promptly forget about and use something else instead. They even go to the extent of using special little add-on programs that help them manage their bookmarks!

And then the next time they're in a hurry and just hastily bookmark something in the wrong place, they'll lose it.

I know this, because that's the way that I used to use bookmarks.

Now, however, I just chuck everything into one large bin because I discovered:

Opera is far better at finding bookmarks than I am at categorising them.

You don't have to remember a whole list. I have <pause> 6, maybe 7 shortcuts (aka nicknames) that I use. bbc, ss, news, radio, dg, apod, cams, er... that's about it. I can't remember any more at the moment and that's the point -- I don't need to remember any more because they're the ones I regularly use.

That's a pity, because the concept is brilliant. Almost instant access to a huge mount of information.

As you can imagine, I don't prioritize (arrange?) my bookmarks in any kind of special way. However, if I did want to arrange them, looking at the View drop-down button on the Bookmarks Hotlist, I can see that it can sorted, at any time, by:

• Date of creation
• Date of last visit
• Description
• Address
• Nickname
• Title
• 'my order'

(The 'my order' is just whatever way you want to drag'n'drop them.)

Oh, and all can be ascending or descending, naturally.

And in either one-folder-at-a-time view, full view or split-screen view.

In the Hotlist or in a floating d/log box.

I can't think of many other ways to prioritize bookmarks.

<nomex>
Well, even though Firebird is my 'other' browser and it's a dear sweet little thing, I have to say that the good ideas in there are generally those which are inherited from Mozilla which, in turn, 'borrowed' them from Opera.

F'rinstance: Take a close look at 'Keywords' in Firebird's Bookmark management system. Look familiar? See any serial numbers that have been filed off? You should do, because they're 'Nicknames' from Opera.
</nomex>

 

Brian ...

You're an eloquent spokesman for Opera ... are you sure you're not on their payroll?

Perhaps I shouldn't have been so critical of Opera's way(s) of handling bookmarks but, as I said in an earlier post, "I haven't played with a lot of its 'features' yet ".

My bookmarks were collected over any number of iterations of Netscape Navigator, prioritized in a way that made it easy for me to find the ones used most frequently. Netscape (6x/7x), Mozilla, and Firebird imported them directly, in the same order they already were in. Opera, on the other hand, immediately alphabetized them, and now leaves it up to me to put them back into the order in which I want them. I don't need, or want, the aggravation.

So far as the hotlist concept being "brilliant ", to put a reverse spin on an old adage, "one man's treasure is another man's trash" ... your "brilliant' concept" is nothing but a PITA for me.

• "...the good ideas in [Firebird] are generally those which are inherited from Mozilla which, in turn, 'borrowed' them from Opera. "

This could quickly devolve into a chicken-egg debate, which would be pointless. Suffice it to say that Opera's developers no more invented the browser (or came up with all the good ideas) than Al Gore invented the internet.

In the end, it seems to boil down to "I say to-may-to, you say to-mah-to" but, to coin another old phrase, "that's what makes horseraces ".

 

On the contrary -- I've handed them money on several occasions.

Oh, I can understand the frustration, but you must admit that Netscape, Mozilla and Firebird do have a slight advantage over Opera when it comes to importing Netscape-created bookmarks.

That's fair enough. If we all thought the same way, we wouldn't have anything to talk about, would we?
No, I just wanted to make sure that you hadn't dismissed something out of hand because its advantages hadn't been immediately obvious.

I do that all the time.

Yes, it was an unwarranted outburst on my part. I assure you that it was totally uncharacteristic of me. Please accept my profuse apologies.

I promise never to mention nicknames again. Or mouse gestures. Or tabbed browsing. Or inline-search. Or... Oops!

Absolutely!

 

Hey MiniB, STILL wondering what you decided on for a browser...

But, that's not the reason that I took the time and trouble to get back to this thread and repost.

I had just about given up on findind a decent browser that was simplistic, fast, and had all the good attributes that I was looking for, but then stumbled across a high approval rating by a large number of reviewers, so I tried the Avant browser.

Short and to the point, out of the ten browsers that I have evaluated, it's the best one overall that I have found (so far). But, altho the favorites/bookmark handling leaves a little bit to be desired, at least it works and is usable; and, it doesn't have the side panel notes feature that I like so well, but it is still so much better than the others that I am canning all of them (I have been using four browsers, depending on requirements of task at hand...) and just going with Avant. Try it, you'll like it...

http://www.avantbrowser.com/

 

Hi Keywester - thanks for looking up this thread !!

I had to set a side my search for another browser as I was busy selecting all the bits I wanted for a new PC. I have just recently had one built for me and have only just got most of my software installed!!!

I was a little hestitant after I decided to look as it seemed the general opinion was that IE was more stable with XP - I am not too confident when it comes to testing 'just to see'
I can see you have really road tested quite a few. The one you have found I have noticed others posting about this one and how good it is. I also note it seems to be updated quite a bit, perhaps some of the updates will include the things you find lacking at the moment. I will look at this now that I know someone who is using it and tested it!!
I appreciate the details you have supplied plus it has reminded me to get my browser search back on my list again. It's been Firewalls / AV's & routers recently + trying to migrate to another ISP which has been a nightmare for me as it is not going smoothly at all - if you need to know about migration I have throughly tested that

Thanks again - will bookmark this link now. miniB