Resolved Do routers have problems with more up to date OSes?

Reason why I'm asking is that my latest router is acting up--it won't let us stay online for more than 20 mins or so at a time. I've upgraded firmware, and I constantly have to turn off the power.

Anyways, I had great luck with an older Belkin N150 wireless router, that appears to have been first made in 2011 or thereabouts. I'm thinking about buying another one. But this N150, as well as a few others on the official Belkin support page, only have drivers listed up through Windows 7 or Windows 8.

Would a router that only has old drivers give me problems with support issues? I mean, I wouldn't ask this question about a mouse. They either work or they don't. Are routers like this, or could this be an issue with some update?

 

No. They don't care. Routers don't communicate with your computer's operating system. They communicate with your network card. And those protocols have not changed.

What that means is routers don't use or need drivers. Many come with software to make them easier to setup and that needs to be compatible with the operating system IF you want to use that software. But you you don't need that either. You just enter the router's IP address in your browser and access the router's configuration menu that way.

Ethernet is even easier. Just connect and reboot your computer.

I NEVER use the software that comes with routers.

You say it won't let "us" stay on line. Are these problems affecting more than one computer? Do all connect via wireless? Have you tried Ethernet (wired)?

That router is getting old and may just be failing. But being old means it does not support the latest protocols or speeds either. It may be time to upgrade just to take advantage of better performance - especially if you added more wireless devices recently.

Cable can easily be damaged. Swap the cable between the router and modem.

Do you live in a crowded wireless area - perhaps in or near a large apartment complex? You may need to change channels.

BTW, I have never used a Belkin router but they bought Linksys a few years ago. I just bought a Linksys EA7500 and really like it. I have no problems connecting via wireless to my wireless devices downstairs and on the distant end of the house.

 

There is a desktop (connects to router with a cable) and my laptop (connects wirelessly) that both have problems, at the same time. I will swap out the cables and see if that does anything (between the router and modem, and also between router and desktop).

I'll report back in a day or so after I know if it is working.

Thanks for the idea.

 

If that's the case, so be it. Yes, you are correct, I can still connect to my router when I get kicked offline. Often, I log in (wirelessly from my laptop) and instruct it to reboot, although that rarely solves the problem. I think I can see why you believe that the router might not be the problem.

The reason I don't (perhaps I should have stated this in teh OP) is that I look at my cable modem (path is ISP to cable modem to router to my laptop), and I see all the lights solid, which tells me that even though I cannot get online, the signal itself from the ISP, and the modem are fine.

 

Valid point. I had been using a solid, reliable Draytek for years and it appeared to be working well. Then I found that every time I tried to hold a Facetime conversation from either one of three three iPads in this household the wireless connection was dropped. Connection through a public wifi was fine. The router seemed fine, the Ethernet connections were fine. In fact everything except the Facetime usage was fine.


Changing to a new router solved that problem and in fact is more stable.

Problem with older routers is that they slowly degrade and sometimes gradual deterioration is hard to detect.

 

Ummm, kinda, sorta, but not really.

Digital communications depends on clocks syncing. These clocks count, they don't tell time. They force the processors, memory, buses, various controller circuits, etc. to all operate at a specific frequency. When a component in a digital circuit ages, it may want to slow down but various regulator circuits will adjust voltages to force the component to keep in sync. If the component can't keep up, it and the circuit will just stop.

The problem with older routers is the demands put upon them keep increasing. When that Belkin N150 was first released, most wireless devices still used 802.11g wireless protocols. And there were not that many "smart" devices that supported wireless either.

Today, almost all devices are 802.11n or 11ac which are much faster. For example, 11g supported up to about 11Mbps. 11n supports up to about 150Mbps. And now 802.11ac supports at least 1Gbps and up to ~6.9Gbps (6900Mbps)!!!! That's up to about 900Mb of data per second! Of course, those top speeds are under ideal conditions and most users will never see those speeds. But the point is, newer devices consume more bandwidth.

And more and more devices are smart. I currently have two smart wireless TVs, two smart Blu-ray disk players, a tablet, notebook, PC, smart phone, and Roku streamer all connecting via wireless. 8 years ago, I had just my notebook. If my cell phone at the time supported wifi, I didn't use it.

The more people you have in your household, chances are there are more devices connecting. And of course, now you have home security, lights, thermostats, Alexa, refrigerators, washing machines, coffee pots, ovens and more that are "smart".

On top of that, you have more "content" going across these networks to connected devices as users are streaming high-resolution graphics, YouTube videos and more - not just text messages and phone calls (voice only) which use very little bandwidth.

So it is not that the router is degrading or slowing down, it is that it is being asked to do more and more work in the same amount of time (number of clock cycles or Hz). Households have more wireless devices today. These devices are capable of much greater bandwidth and they are downloading and uploading much more data. Older routers are just being swamped.

New routers have faster processors and more internal memory. They support faster wireless protocols (thus much more bandwidth and data). And most also support "dual band" and that is important. Many smart devices support 2.4GHz but also the newer 5GHz band. If you set up your wireless network and your devices so some use 2.4GHz and others use 5GHz, and you have a "simultaneous" dual band router, it is like having two routers and two wireless networks splitting the load. That's a good thing.

 

here are the stats on cable modem.

downstream ch 1: --14.1 dbmv. ch. 2-16 are all 0.0

upstream ch. 1: 57.0 dbmv

ch.2-4 are all 0.

s/n ratio: 37.6 db ch. 1; all others 0.0 db
different Ethernet cable between router & modem still got me kicked offline, so it wasnt the eth cable.

 

Wait a second. I think the above info was only when I wasn't online. I just checked again (my router is back online), and now I'm seeing power level and s/n ratios for all of them.

Power levl: they are all between -14.2 and -16.7 dBmV (channels 2 through 16); Ch. 1 is -13.9 dBmV.

The S/N ratios are all between 35.6 and 37.7 db.

Upstream channels are the same: Ch. 1 is 57.0 dBmV; Chs. 2-4 are all 0.0

BTW---since this modem isn't wireless, would it make sense for me to put in a username and password? I don't recall if I had this set up with my previous modem.

 

No. Modems don't require them. That is because your ISP authenticate and authorizes them directly via its unique MAC address.

 

I see that. I was thinking about security---keeping my modem from being hacked. I realize I don't need a pw on the modem to get online.
Probably should have created a new thread, but there ya go....

 

The data transmitted between your modem and your ISP is encrypted so it would not be of use to a bad guy even if he could hack it.

 

Good point about the splitter.

There are two (well 4) issues you need to worry about. Splitters on the outside of the house can weather and degrade over time. Even if the cable connectors are well made and securely connected, weathering can eventually cause the insulation to become brittle, and/or the connections to work loose. This can allow moisture to creep in and erode or degrade the "physical" connection. And a poor physical connection will lead to a poor electrical connection. This effect is further enhanced if the splitter is exposed to the UV rays of the sun.

The other issue is the bandpass capability of the splitter. It should be at least 5Hz - 2GHz (5Hz to 2000MHz). Some go up to 2.4GHz like this 2-way splitter. Any that were installed years ago when the house first got cable TV may have splitters that only support up to 1000MHz or even 900MHz. They need to be replaced with a splitter that goes up to at least 2GHz (2000MHz).

Exterior splitters are typically the responsibility of your service provider.

The third issue is to make sure any cables connected to splitters inside the home are tight. And again, if less than 2GHz, should be replaced. Splitters on the inside of the home typically are the home owner's responsibility (though the first splitter may be your provider's if no outside splitter). The Home Depot, Lowes, even Walmart typically carries them. Real gold connectors are the best (because gold does not corrode) but most are just gold colored. So don't worry too much about that. You don't have to buy the most expensive, just don't buy the cheapest.

The last issue is the number of splits (outputs) on the splitter. Every time the signal is split, the signal on each output side is attenuated - even if no cable is connected to an output. If you only need to split 1 input to 2 outputs, use a 2-way splitter. A 4-way splitter with 2 outputs unused will just result in the two used outputs having reduced signal strength, and that is not good.

 

Ugh. Called Spectrum. They insisted that the downstream numbers were within their "acceptable" lines (neg 14 to pos 14), and when we were talking, I refreshed the modem page and sure enough they were. But they were right at neg 14.

Anyways, the tech support did suggest that I adjust the channel setting on my router to either 1, 6, or 11. It was set to automatic, so I went in and manually adjusted it to channel 1.

I'll see if that does any good.

They said the connection to the modem was fine, and they could see the modem.

 

Sorry - when I mentioned that in my first reply, I thought I also included a link to XIRRUS WiFi Inspector. This is what I use to see what wireless channels are in use and available. NirSoft's WifiInfoView is another good one. These will show all the wireless networks in your neighborhood, their signal strength and the channel they are using. Pick a channel not in use, and if possible one where no adjacent channel is in use either - as they often is some overlap.

If there are no free channels (which happens in large apartment complexes) pick one with the weakest signal strength as your wireless devices should lock in to the strongest signal in that channel.

 

Thanks, Tony. I'll try another call later on this week, and see if I can get them to own up to more.

At least I now know, that my 2 year old router isn't going on the blink. That is helpful to know.