Resolved Why does router want to talk to ISP?

Could someone explain why, if you buy a wireless router WITHOUT a modem, it has a dedicated WAN port and wants to know your ISP details?

Why can it not simply act as a router?

I bought one of these specifically as I thought that not having to configure a new ADSL modem would reduce the chances of anything not working only to discover that, although it would work perfectly well as a wired router it would not access the net wirelessly without attempting some authentication with the ISP. This it failed to achieve, despite definitely having the correct authentication data. (Verified be re-entering said data into the ADSL modem, which continued to work perfectly.)

I've sent it back as faulty and a replacement is being sent but I don't understand why it wants to involve itself with 'logging in' to the ISP.

I've looked at photographs of other 'no modem' wireless routers and they all seem to have a separate WAN port implying that they will not simply act as a router but want to get involved with ISP authentication.

 

Hi, This seems to be the common answer to your question:

I have the NetComm Wireless Gateway and have no problems. This is both Router/Modem and ALL the comps in my home use it. Neil.

 

Sorry, that does not address my question at all.

As I said, I have an ADSL model, it works perfectly and has done for years.

I wanted to add a wireless router so that I could use my tablet in the 'net.

So I bought a wireless router without a modem thinking that it would work in the same way as my Ethernet router: I plug the modem into the router and can access the net from any other device I plug into said router.

However, the wireless router does not seem to work like that (it has 4 Ethernet ports and that part works just like any other wired router). When you set it up it asks for your ISP details; Connection type, ID, and password. It then fails to connect to the ISP. The wired router still works as expected (provided that you change the modem from the router's WAN port to one of its LAN ports), but if you try and access the 'net wirelessly on the tablet, you get thrown into the router's ISP setup page, and, once again, the router fails to connect.

I've sent the router back as faulty but I want to understand why it wants to converse with the ISP when the modem is doing that perfectly happily on its own.

 

I would have thought the instruction booklet would explain how to connect. I didn't realize you weren't following them. It usually tells you the Password to use is 'admin' where it's needed. Neil.

 

The instruction book does, and I was following it.

It told me in precise detail (including pictures with cabling included) what to do to set it up.

It assumes that you will be connecting it to a modem and specifies that the cabling should be from the modem to the router's WAN port (Ethernet).

It then tells you to use the setup page (which comes up automatically when you connect to 192.168.1.1) to select connection type (PPPoE) and enter the username and password for your ISP.

However when I did this it failed to connect.

So I followed the very precise instructions exactly, but the router failed to operate correctly.

 

Arie & TonyT.

Thank you for your input.

When the new router arrives, and if this one does not work if set up according to the instructions enclosed with it, I will try the ones you suggest.

The router in question is an ASUS RT-N56U, the modem a Conexant.

What puzzles me is why, according to your posts, the instructions that come with the router should be entirely incorrect and how the 100 people who give it a 5 star review on Amazon somehow (apparently) knew how how to set it up without problems.

 

As for your ISP, they want to know the mac address of the subscriber (you). That address is the cable modem or the dsl modem or whatever you are using

 

Well, after many hours and much fiddling around I now have the setup in a state where it is in AP mode and the computer can access the 'net and ping the wireless router.

The conexant address is 10.0.0.2 and the DCHP pool runs from 10.0.0.3 to 10.0.0.14.

The wireless router has the address 10.0.0.3 and the main computer 10.0.0.4

Still the router will not connect. When trying from the tablet it just goes round and round in a loop of:

Authenticating
Connecting
Obtaining IP address

I'm wondering if the access point mode in this router just doesn't work.

It seems I may have to return it (again) and buy a wireless modem/router combo such as this

I know this is really beyond the realm of Windows, now, but any comments and advice would be welcome.

 

You say that you can access the web, so where's the problem?

Maybe you can describe your topology... i.e. wall=>cable modem=>router=>LAN

Or how about this: click on the orb, click on all programs, click on accessories, right click on command prompt. type in command ipconfig hit enter.. give me your default gateway, and subnet mask

Turn on all hosts in your LAN, (other computers, A/P, etc) at the command prompt type in the command net view what is the output?

The isp provides you with a single IP address that is globally routable. Using a technology of Network Address Translation, a router takes that IP address and converts into a RFC 1918 non routable address so that you can connect several devices while using a single address. The most common form of NAT is port address translation. Lets say you have three computers in your house, and they all are online at the same time. They use the same IP address but are differentiated by computer port addresses that they are engaged in. oNe computer is on a website--port 80 one is getting email on port 25. etc. Although the IP address is the same, the ports keep them separate.

Your A/P should be getting an IP address from your router. I would go into the router, and look for local lan, or dhcp clients, and see which addresses have been doled out. Your Class A pool (the 10.0.0.0 network) seems kinda small to me. It suggests a 255.255.255.240 subnet mask (/28 CIDR wise) Open that puppy up back to the default /24 Go into the A/P and check it's settings. You might have it on dhcp or static. Turn off wpa. Get it working and then turn on wpa

Just my comments, I'll let the gurus help you

 

Just a question whether your Router has a "Diagnostic" Mode to check if all is set up correctly.
Your Windows > Control Panel > Network Sharing > Troubleshoot is another help.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOVQWGrgLPE There are quite a large number of videos to watch covering most common brands of Routers. Neil.

 

It doesn't appear to have.

The problem with such a mode, even if it existed, is that it can't really pro-actively check wireless connectivity because there's no way of telling it what's out there. It may think it's set up properly but if a wireless client is trying to access it and completely failing, it doesn't know about it.

In this instance it's no help because as far as Windows is concerned, everything is working.

(On a side note, I've never known that thing do anything helpful. It just sits there with (according to task manager) no processor activity, no disk activity and (according to various monitors) no network activity. I have a very strong suspicion that it just sets a timer and twiddles the process bar. Whenever Window has known there is something wrong it has given an immediate diagnostic without any need to invoke the 'troubleshooter'.)

He went through a similar procedure with a different router and it worked for him.

The problem is that unless you can find a video of someone using the exact same router and using AP they are always going to be doing some things subtly different.

Having already spent around twelve hours on what should have been a ten minute job it seems pretty pointless continuing.

TonyT said: "DSL & ADSL services usually don't have a stand-alone modem, they use a modem-router combo. "

That being the case it's surely not unreasonable to expect that ASUS should provide simple instructions as to how to set the device up. And yet, although the router does (theoretically) support AP mode, there is not a suggestion of it in the quick start guide or the accompanying manual.

 

Which is quite useless unless you know that there is some other way that the router needs to be set up.

My point was that, apparently, this is a commonly needed mode and yet the ASUS manual and quick start guide tell you to set it up for a different type of connection that simply will not work and make no mention whatsoever that there is an alternative method or under what6 circumstances it will be needed.

Not that the information they have provided appears to be anywhere near sufficient to actually make the thing work if you compare what they say with the instructions TonyT has given.

It's no good telling someone how to do something if they have no way of knowing that's what they have to do.

 

Thanks for the suggestion but the result is exactly the same.

I can ping (e.g. google) from the router diagnostic. (sorry to retired learner, I found this in the setup - I had been looking for a SA like the discovery prog.) This works.

On reconnecting the main computer I can ping the router successfully.

None of the three wireless devices I try can connect.

On the tablet I can confirm that it is talking to the router because giving it the wrong password leads to a status of 'Authentication Problem' rather then the Authenticating/Connecting/Obtaining IP address loop it follows if it has the correct password.

 

I did try no security and it made little difference.

I've just tried it again and the only difference is that now, instead of going round the Authentication/Connecting/Obtaining IP address loop, it's just 'Obtaining IP address'.

I think it's time to accept that ASUS have not properly implemented AP mode on this device:

We know that the tablet can talk to the router because its behaviour changes (in a reasonably expectable manner) according to the security set in the router.

We know that the router can talk to a physically wired computer via a standard ping.

We know that the router can talk to the internet because it can ping external sites.

The only problem is that the router seems to be incapable of actually linking the relevant parts of it's functionality to allow wireless access.

It's telling that in the link Arie supplied to the ASUS site (How to set wireless router as access point mode?) there is no mention of changing any IP addresses which, according to people here, is a fundamental part of configuring an access point.

Indeed, according to that link, setting up the router in that mode should be a very simple job - just as you would expect it to be in this day and age.

It's also telling that the guide and manual that come with the ASUS make no mention of the fact that you might need to use AP mode, even though modem/router combinations are, apparently, common. (Looking at Amazon, there are few pure ADSL modems without routers, although it may be that ISP's were providing them as a cheap option do get people connected before they started supplying modem/wireless routers.)