Replacing PSU on a Small Form Factor Dell Optiplex

I have been in contact numerous times with Dell and they are completely aware of everything.
I don’t know what many problems you refer to.
IMO everything I have mentioned is a consequence (or could be) of a PC that runs at too high a temp.

I was relating the msconfig -> startup programs to possibly affecting heat production.

Dell has not answered e.g. whether SFFs are usually warmer than standard desktops, and other questions I have asked on this message board.

I get much more info and answers from the message board than from Dell.

I appreciate your expertise, knowledge and replies (also alerting me to the practical issues (warranty which are under control)) and please don’t take this the wrong way…but you no obligation to read or answer my posts.

I do thank you again for your help: I am very grateful for the assistance.
Happy fourth!

 

Not taken the wrong way.

In one of your other post where you did the Core Temp and posted the readings, Pete said that they were fine and I agree. Each PC will be different and the location of the PC will make a difference. I like to keep at least 10 to 10 inches all around my PC Clear. I have my tower under my desk and it is not sitting on a rug. I have an old Coke or Pepsi crate that it is sitting on. It is full of holes so I know that there is good air circulation under it. I don't care for the small form factor PC's as they tend to run hotter then a full size box. More air space and if need be, another fan can be added very easy.

Happy 4th to you also.

 

Why do you notice the high(?) temperature from the PSU. Is there plenty of clearance at the back of the computer for heated air to escape?

Feeling heated air can be somewhat good, because the hot air is being removed and (hopefully) replaced with cool air. The cool air is drawn in from the front of the computer, so make sure you are not blocking the air vents around the front. If air is not passing freely through the case it can turn into an oven and then yes, the extracted air will be hot.

The system is working, which is the base point, it works well at the beginning, then slows down, it could be caused by a rouge program that is overworking your hardware. After a restart, try right-clicking (a blank space) on the Task Bar and choosing Task Manager. Go to the performance tab. Note as many readouts as you can and then go back and compare them when the system has slowed.

Personally, I think be might be malware or a normal program that is malfunctioning. It can overwork your hardware. Check the CPU usage in Task Manager, but also the information for Memory. Programs can have a memory "leak" that will fill and overwork your RAM.

You could disable all the Startup listings in MSCONFIG (note that one or two will be for your antimalware and should be re-enabled ASAP....you are not running more than one antimalware/antivirus are you?) , if it is still the same, go back and see if they have been restarted (you said some were started again). Post their details here or do a websearch for the program they are running.

Have you posted in our antimalware forum before? (Maybe I have missed something.) Consider posting in the Malware and Virus forum. Read and carry out the instructions at the head of the forum "READ THIS BEFORE POSTING IN THIS FORUM ". Tell them that your system slows down and ask them whether they can tell you if you have software you don't really need, it might not necessarily be malware, it might just be problematic. You can post a link to this thread and give us a link to that thread.

As I said, heated air might not be bad, but it might tell you/us that the hardware is working very hard.

Matt
PS: Some startup control programs are StartupCPL or Startup Cop, if you run Windows XP (I can't see or missed your system details). If you run Vista/Windows 7, MSCONFIG can do it for you.

 

I know of a couple of people who on hot summer days leave the side open, and with a small portable fan blowing air into the case.
If I was in your situation though, I would just buy a nice, bigger case and transfer the whole lot over and be done with it, rather than having continuing heat problems like you seem to have.
But then that's me.

 

Hi mattman, and thanks for your reply!
The system was profiled here:
http://www.windowsbbs.com/hardware/98132-psu-air-case-metal-psu-get-really-warm.html

There are other problems now
http://www.windowsbbs.com/other-software/99514-word-97-word-2007-issues-text.html

Text files are getting corrupt (as are word) there are also a number of errors (Event viewer)
Current problem though - I have to get an application (documents) ready by tomorrow and was using the optiplex -> many of the files are corrupt.
I'd submitted them to virus total
www.virustotal.com
as well as having run them through trend (which is excessive but up-to-date) and Avast! (up-to-date). All said clean. Different machines (1 antiviral per PC)

Just running a trend full system scan but want to do a boot scan with trend so have to look up how...

But I really have to redo the documents I'd created on the hot pc because of the deadline. I don't want to transfer them to the other PC (The Dell E520) - profiled in my CP)

I really appreciate your reply and suggestions and will definitely be following them in the next few days(s) or today as soon as I finish redoing all the documents for my deadline...
Thanks

QUESTION: When disabling start-up should I be going to services (msconfig -> services) first: checking check box "hide MS essential services ", and remove checkmarks from ones left -> apply and then editing start-up?

Loads
The MS logo has peeled off.... (Due to heat)

Is there anyway I can print contents of msconfig -> start-up? (or msconfig-> services) vs. writing each down or doing a screen print? (i.e. a text file?)

I prefer to use my own "instinct" and then do the complete opposite from what I think ... So if I think something should be removed I won't remove it. Then I am bound to do the right thing

 

That's a thought... Don't know much about cases anymore unless the basics haven't changed too much since 2005?

I still don't know why a 305W PSU would not be better than a 235W PSU?

There are other problems:
Here
http://www.windowsbbs.com/other-software/99514-word-97-word-2007-issues-text.html
Thanks!

 

No tanya, not much change there at all. Personally I would not touch a PSU under 350W.
But then again that's me.
hawk22

 

So, in other words, the higher a PSU is rated, the cooler it *might* keep the PC?
The most *powerful* PSU for this (SFF) is 305 W. Currently it has 235W

The original PSU (M/N L235P-01) 235 W
"235W Standard PSU or optional 235W up to 88% Efficient PSU "


What I want to get:
"Refurbished: 305-Watt Power Supply for Dell OptiPlex 580/ 760/ 780/ 960 Desktop System "
http://accessories.dell.com/sna/products/power/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=biz&cs=555&sku=p192m

Also can you recommend cases?
I am in Canada so would have to use ncix.ca to avoid XS shipping costs.
http://ncix.ca/

Cases come with "racks" (?supports?) for components don't they? IIRC the motherboard is smaller than normal (I have to open it or look it up)...
Thanks

 

Hi tanya, If you are to consider to going for a new case, there are are a couple of things that you have to investigate, also your budget comes into consideration. The main point would be to check out and a call to ncix could possibly fix that. Since your machine is a Dell the Motherboard might have Dell specific connectors. The main 12 V ATX and all that should be standard but some of the front end connectors from the case like power, reset, speakers and that type you would need to confirm, that they are compatible.
The Dell PSU that you mention 305 W is $85.- Canadian you can have a 460W PSU from ncix for $73.- so you are not loosing here.

http://ncix.ca/products/?sku=61177&vpn=FSP460GLCR-B204&manufacture=Sparkle Power Intl.

There are many nice and good quality cases there as well just depending on your budget but there is one that stands out as a good buy for $119.-

http://ncix.ca/products/?sku=54712&vpn=CC600T&manufacture=Corsair&promoid=1359

Take these suggestions only as "Food For Thought" tanya.

One advantage that this would also give you is, if in time you feel you need to upgrade your machine, you already have a good case for the upgrade no need to buy a new one again.

I know the more suggestions you get the more difficult it gets to make decisions. "That's Live ".

hawk22

 

I will just make some comments because you seem intent that the power supply is the problem.

Hasn't the power supply already been changed with the same result? That tells me the power supply is OK. Dell power supplies are generally installed to run the basics. That is, the motherboard, a hard disk drive, a cd/dvd drive and the USB connecters (with some sundry items). What do you have connected that could draw more power than "standard ". Have you tried disconnecting all external hardware? USB ports have a limited amount of power that they can provide, some USB devices have their own power supply, some use the computer's power. You can daisy-chain over 120 USB devices to your computer, but they need to have their own power supply.

The power supply expels the heated air from inside the case. Is it the power supply that is causing the heat (and as I said, why would it be overloaded)? The heated air is also coming from the components inside the case. That is why I suggest you investigate something running on your system (like a rouge program) that is overheating the hardware, not the power supply.

Good suggestions from hawk22, but if you start with a computer designed to be a step-up between a laptop and desktop computer, I wouldn't try to redesign it, I would make it work the way it was designed...and small form factor computers will not be able to be upgraded. [Hawk, I have a feeling that the motherboard of the small form factor would not have matching bolt holes or matching ports at the rear, to change the case.] I gave up trying to do any major upgrades to OEM (like Dell) computers a long time ago.

Matt

 

Hi Matt, yes you could be right there, one reason also I suggested to give the retailer a call.
Bolt holes I think would be reasonably safe, but back IO plate could be a problem.
Or inquirer with Dell themselves.
As you might guess I did make my suggestions to tanya because she seems to be convinced that the problems are contributed to by the rather small PSU.
Like you and MrBill I would never spend my money on a small factor PC, I categorically dislike them, and I always try to steer people away from them.

I do hope though that with a concerted effort here we can get tanya back to satisfied computing. So says who

Well I am sorry to say it is not looking good tanya. Matt was quite right in his comment.
See here:

http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/desktop/f/3514/p/19369448/19840496.aspx

 

Hi Matt and hawk22,
Just want to thank you both "“ I haven’t read these yet because due to the PC (Optiplex 780) corrupting files for an application which I have to have in within hours, I am having to redo all of it.

I will respond ASAP but wanted to thank you for taking the time to reply

 

Hi,
Just a couple of things:
DellControlPoint is using a lot 35,000K of mem but CPU is 00 (BTW the CPU and drive temps are never above 112).
(I am running SIW and process explorer - I only started these last few days.)

Also I am going to disconnect the cable for my high speed and then disable trend and see.
(But this won't rule out internet based / networked based bloated software.....)

Heat has been occurring since day 1. Sometimes I have a USB printer (with its own PS): No diff.

Re: the PSU I am not saying the PSU's (orig and rpl) are bad (defective) I am saying that a 235 W PSU is not sufficient for this PC - IOW that a 305W would be better at keeping the inside temp down. I realize the hot air is "good" since it is leaving the PC but I assume it's hot inside before exiting.

I'd tried it with the BIOS setup (fan control override) - trying again - I can hear it outside



I posted this a ways back:
"Dell Optiplex 780 desktop computer Reviews "
http://www.viewpoints.com/Dell-OptiPlex-780-desktop-computer-review-9dae4

There's nothing to dusconnect... I can troubleshoot better after I finish my application ... I have a USB flash drive at times (no difference). Flash(es) are only recent.
Heat occurred before the printer and the flash drive(s)

That would be a reason to try a *better* fan and higher rated PSU.... It's under full warranty for 2 more years...
Thanks!
P.S. Fan control override - huge difference on temp of hot air (also air intake (at the power switch) - where the fan is(?) far more suction)

Fan control override: temps: CPU (3 of the 4 cores) and HD are all in the 2 digits... Significant difference (IMO)

 

Thanks hawk22:

You get what you pay for - I got a great deal on this one and with it a laptop still in the box - I already gave up on it (the laptop - don't even know where the battery is let alone what it looks like) - and another which is fair. (but basic)

Look forward to that - I wish I'd built my own (but too expensive)

No problem

I'll just look for a BTX case!
But main question: since the SFF is so cramped (I'd removed the parts for the technician before he replaced the same-rated PSU) shouldn't it theoretically need a stronger PSU and fan? If you have a large spaceous case, air would circulate far better vs. cramped tightly fitting components with no room to spare (just theoretical)

 

Hi tanya, yes in my opinion a spacious case will always run cooler than a crammed one, obviously. Some of the newer PSU's work quite intelligently, regulating them self's as needed depending on temps.
Modular PSU's are great as you only use the cables that you need and therefore in most cases you have a much leaner case and again more room for the hot air to be expelled freely.
I am sure, that you are fully aware now that for you to upgrade would be a bigger investment than you most likely be prepared to undertake.
You not only would need a new case and PSU but also a new Motherboard, and that could involve also a new OS.
So maybe the Dell 305W would be your cheapest upgrade for you.

Have you been able to sort your file corruption problems out. If not, Matt and MrBill are quite experts at that, aren't you guys.
Let us know how you are going and what your plans are.
hawk22

 

If I was an expert, I would be rich instead of good looking.

 

Hi hawk22,
Thank you for answering...

Question: The PSU runs the fan correct? So if the PSU is already being used to its max it likely would not be able to handle a better fan?

How can I find a fan for this thing? I'd want one with more blades and likely more efficiently shaped blades. I don't know off-hand what is in it - cannot look until done redoing files - I'd have to check measurements and what is / are available.
I agree about trying to upgrade the case: I think at least for this PC, I should look at the 305 W and a better fan?

Comment about the 780: When I have the BIOS setting : "Fan Control Override" ENabled, the PC is cool (but loud)
There is also a lot more air being sucked into the PC (from the front - at power switch)

I have a number of <free> H/W monitor utilities - I cannot find "fans" on any apart from related to the video card. But, the CPU temps are lower (as are HD temps) with Fan Control Override ENabled)

No! And I am still redoing each file on the other PC - But I think the corruption has more to do with pasting directly from .pdf files into word (both systems) and not so much on having used a document created on a win95B PC with word 97.
What seems to work is copying the .pdf text into a text file and from there pasting into word.

Problem with the corruption (aside from being a global waste of time), my other Dell had corruption problems just before its harddrive failed. I read this *could* be an early warning for potential HD failure. Although the E520 did not have text file corruption only word....

Thanks!

 

Hi tanya, not knowing details about your case in regards to internal space and size of your existing case fan, if you do have one I don't know.
The exhaust fan built into your PSU you can not change, they are manufacture designed. But, and I mean but if you happen to have one built in or available space for a case fan than you can not get past the "Noctua" brand Fans, they are available world wide, I give you the link from my dealer where you can read up, or even inquire about suitability of one of them in your case, they do come in a big range of sizes and types.
Explore from here:

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9_413&products_id=6248

hawk22

 

Hi hawk22,
Thanks very much!

I should open it to clean it: If so / When I do so, I'll post the details the fan details.
Here:
"Dellâ„¢ OptiPlexâ„¢ 780 Service Manual Small Form Factor Computer "
http://it.pickensit.com/Service Manuals/Dell Optiplex 780 SFF/index.htm

I know - I'd replace the whole PSU.

There is something that intakes air where the on/off power button is. It has a lot of suction when the fan control override option is enabled (in the BIOS).

I did run Seagate seatools (as suggested in another thread) and the system passed....
Thanks again!
Tanya

 

Good researching! Keep it up.

Keep us informed how you are going (which you are).