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Intel Core i7-860 thermal paste

Discussion in 'PC Hardware' started by Christer, 2010/03/18.

  1. 2010/03/18
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    I'm assembling a new box of components and it will have a Core i7-860 processor. On the stock cooler, there are three "strips" of thermal paste. The installation instructions say nothing about adding thermal paste so I wonder if the three "strips" are enough?
     
  2. 2010/03/18
    Steve R Jones

    Steve R Jones SuperGeek Staff

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    I always use the pads that come on Retail chips.
     

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  4. 2010/03/18
    crunchie

    crunchie Inactive

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    Personally I would get rid of the thermal pads and put some MX-2 on there.
     
  5. 2010/03/18
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    I was surprized to see the three pads as the last time I was doing this, the stock cooler came with a by "themal paste" fully covered contacting surface. I'm inclined to go with crunchie's advice but at the same time, wouldn't Intel provide a fully adequate solution?
     
  6. 2010/03/18
    Arie

    Arie Administrator Administrator Staff

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    The Intel solution is adequate, although I would argue their stock cooler isn't.
     
    Arie,
    #5
  7. 2010/03/18
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    Arie,
    should I interpret that as the three thermal pads should have been applied to a better cooler ... :p ... ?

    Now, I'm thinking in terms of completing the build with the stock cooler (as is) and monitor the CPU temps. If I deem the temps to be high > substitute a better cooler.
     
  8. 2010/03/18
    Arie

    Arie Administrator Administrator Staff

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    That is exactly what I meant :D

    I would highly recommend is dumping the Intel cooler, and getting this Noctua NH-U12P SE2 120mm Cooler.
     
    Arie,
    #7
  9. 2010/03/18
    Steve R Jones

    Steve R Jones SuperGeek Staff

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    A tight wad like me would go with that plan....If it ain't broke...don't fix it;)
     
  10. 2010/03/18
    Arie

    Arie Administrator Administrator Staff

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    Well, you'll see that with the stock cooler the CPU runs pretty hot, specially for Steve in TX.

    Christer could get away with it in Sweden.
     
    Arie,
    #9
  11. 2010/03/18
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff

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    Followed Arie's advice last year with my i7 920 build - used that cooler. It is quiet and keeps core temps low - currently 89 - 98 F
     
  12. 2010/03/18
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    The case is an Antec P183. The assembly is 158 mm high. The space from the surface of the motherboard to the support rails of the "door" is 170 mm. Assuming that the surface of the processor is ~10 mm up, the fit is going to be tight.
     
  13. 2010/03/18
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff

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    My kit is assembled into an Antec Sonata which is the same overall (outside) width as the P183 and the clearance from the top of the cooler to the internal edge of the case is ~ 15-20mm.

    Remember that the CPU sits down in the socket and probably protrudes no more than a few mm, certainly not 10 mm above the top surface of the socket :)
     
  14. 2010/03/18
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    Pete, thanks for those measurements. When I make an estimate, I always go on the "negative" side to be certain of no bad surprizes. I had already fitted the processor and stock cooler and could not measure the "heigt above MB surface" of the processor but estimated the thickness of the socket (with locking mechanism and all) to 4-6 mm and the thickness of the processor processor to approximately 2-4 mm which gives a "worst case" of 10 mm. Those 6-10 mm added to the 158 mm of the cooler gives 164-168 mm. I measured the space to 170 mm which gives an estimated clearance of 2-6 mm. Even if I assume that the processor lies flush with the MB surface, I only get at clearance of 12 mm.

    My conclusion is that the side panels of the Sonata is different than those of the P183, the MB tray sits "higher" in the P183 but the Noctua NH-U12P SE2 would fit.
     
  15. 2010/03/19
    Bill

    Bill SuperGeek WindowsBBS Team Member

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    Understand that if that CPU is a "retail version" that came with an Intel supplied cooler, then using any other cooler VOIDS THE WARRANTY!!!!

    Now every time I remind folks of this, I get slammed - but I AM JUST THE MESSENGER!!!! So don't gripe at me! Read my canned text on this for details and follow the links to the official Intel and AMD policy pages. Read your EULAs and Warranties. Canned text follows.
    ******

    It should be noted that using a 3rd party cooler on retail (not OEM) versions of Intel and AMD CPUs that come with heat sink fan assemblies voids the warranty!!! And damage attributed to overclocking is not covered under any CPU, motherboard, or cooler warranty either, regardless any overclocking features or software provided by motherboard makers. Certainly, this is not a concern for some enthusiasts. But it is a concern for many others, and everyone should be aware of it.

    Intel CPU Warranty Information (my bold added)
    Intel warrants the Product (defined as the boxed Intel® processor and the accompanying thermal solution)... ... if the Product is properly used and installed, for a period of three (3) years. This Limited Warranty does NOT cover:
    • damage to the Product due to external causes, including accident, problems with electrical power, abnormal electrical, mechanical or environmental conditions, usage not in accordance with product instructions, misuse, neglect, alteration, repair, improper installation, or improper testing; OR
    • any Product which has been modified or operated outside of Intel's publicly available specifications

    AMD CPU Warranty Information (their bold)
    AMD is more straightforward on their page where it says the following concerning their retail, Processor In A Box (PIB), versions of their CPUs:
    This Limited Warranty shall be null and void if the AMD microprocessor which is the subject of this Limited Warranty is used with any heatsink/fan other than the one provided herewith.

    This limited warranty does not cover damages due to external causes, including improper use, problems with electrical power, accident, neglect, alteration, repair, improper installation, or improper testing.
    The good news is since both AMD and Intel warranty their boxed CPUs for three years, and since replacing them at their cost is not something they want to do, both make excellent cooling solutions both in terms of cooling abilities, but also in noise levels.​
    ******

    As I noted in my text above, the supplied OEM fans provide excellent cooling, perhaps contrary to what others have said. They have to since Intel and AMD expect them to protect the CPU for 3 full years. I do agree, however, that many 3rd party solutions cool better while making less noise too. If the warranty is not an issue, then there are many excellent HSFs to choose from. Do understand that unlike the OEM cooler warranty, no 3rd-party cooler warranty covers the CPU, should the cooler fail.

    I would also emphasize that CPU cooling depends a great deal on how well the case keeps the internals cool, as well as ambient (room) temperatures (assuming no overclocking). If your ambient temperatures are not controlled by heating and/or air conditioning, then your geographical location would be an issue. But generally, unless you are overclocking (or need absolute silence), you should not need a 3rd party cooler. Your case should be keeping the OEM CPU fan supplied with enough "cool" air to do the job. If it is not, then perhaps a new case or additional case fans are needed.

    As for the thermal pads, I prefer using just about anything other than pads - although a pad is FAR SUPERIOR to no TIM (thermal insulating material). I dislike pads simply because they are thick pads of mostly paraffin!

    The best conduction of heat occurs when metal touches metal. Imperfections in the mating surfaces (microscopic pits and valleys) trap insulating air, reducing heat conductance. We use TIM to replace that insulating air with heat conducting materials. Any excess TIM prevents direct metal-to-metal contact of the mating surfaces. So thin is better - too much TIM is counterproductive.

    The theory with pads is the first time power is applied to the computer, the CPU heats up causing the paraffin to melt. Clamping pressures of the heat sink brackets squishes the melted paraffin out in all directions leaving behind a nice, effective layer of TIM.

    My problem with pads is that initially, there is NO metal-to-metal contact. The thick pads have created a gap between the mating surfaces. Efficient heat transfer does NOT begin until the paraffin melts and moves out of the way. Granted, this is fast melting paraffin so it only takes just a few short seconds. But it also only takes a few seconds for a CPU to burn up too. So I prefer using a TIM that I know will work efficiently the instant power is applied.

    I also don't like the thought of melted paraffin oozing out from between the mating surfaces and down into my CPU socket - even though I have never seen that happen, I have seen pads applied off-center.
     
  16. 2010/03/19
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    Bill,
    thanks for your comprehensive post!

    This decides the matter for me. I'll stick with the stock cooler and if it should prove itself inadequate, I will contact their support.

    The Antec P183 is well ventilated with the PSU in a separate compartment at the bottom of the case and two 120 mm fans (rear and top) evacuating air from the upper compartment.

    As a comparison, in the Antec Sonata Plus 550, the PSU is installed at the top of the case and it (the case) has a single 120 mm fan (rear), evacuating air. The PSU too evacuates air and there's no need for a second fan.

    In both cases, you can install several optional fans.

    One thought though: "Alteration" voids warranty. Isn't substituting TIM for the pads considered an "alteration "?
     
  17. 2010/03/19
    Arie

    Arie Administrator Administrator Staff

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    Well, if the processor would fail, there's no way they know which cooler was used, so I'd say "nice try "... and "I don't care ".

    Also, look around the Internet. The stock Intel cooler does not adequately cool*. I got uncomfortably high temperatures when I was running my i7-920 last spring (in TX). Also, the Intel cooler is noisy.

    The Noctua cooler performs much better and is super quiet.

    *) If your ambient temperature stays around 21⁰C/70⁰F it may perform well for you.

    Disclosure: My ambient temps last spring were probably around 24-26⁰C (75-78⁰F).

    At home these are the temperatures in my office between June-October with A/C running.
     
  18. 2010/03/19
    Bill

    Bill SuperGeek WindowsBBS Team Member

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    There's a difference. There are legitimate reasons to remove a HSF. The CPU makers don't supply extra pads. TIM is not reusable. It cures in position. Once the bond is broken, you get rid of the old, thoroughly clean the surfaces with acetone or 93% isopropyl alcohol and reapply a fresh new layer.

    I almost exclusively use Antecs - as long as it has a washable air filter.

    That's true. I am just saying if the CPU fries and a RMA is requested, there's nothing stopping them from asking if the CPU was clocked at default settings and used with the OEM cooler. Then a decision would have to be made whether or not to tell the truth. While the chances of getting caught are pretty slim, some folks may want to avoid the situation altogether. And so I am simply ensuring the facts are known.

    I get uncomfortable too. Heat is the bane of all electronics and so I always keep CoreTemp running in my tray. As I said above,
    Many 3rd party coolers use bigger fans which move lots of air at a lower RPM. But these can kick up some noise too when running full speed, and certainly many swap-meet generic coolers roar!

    No doubt, if the warranty is not a concern, get a good 3rd-party cooler and use a properly applied layer of a good thermal interface material. But then again, if the warranty is not a concern, buy the OEM CPU version - you still get a 1 year warranty that way.

    And I hear you Arie, concerning temps and your Texas based PCs. I'm saying it does not matter, unless the doors and windows are open all year round. If the computers are in a controlled environment, then the computer's environment boils down to who has control over the thermostat!
     
  19. 2010/03/20
    Arie

    Arie Administrator Administrator Staff

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    My PC's aren't in Texas... Last spring I was in TX (with my new PC), now I'm back home.

    Believe me, neither in Texas nor here in Malta you want to be with your windows open in summer!

    An A/C controlled environment should only be around 10-15⁰C (15-30⁰F) below the outside temperature. Not only would you run a huge electricity bill trying to maintain your computer room at a chilling 21⁰C/70⁰F, chances are you'll get sick pretty quick.

    Right now my office is at 21⁰C/70⁰F, and with my CPU running around 1-3% my cores read between 36-43⁰C (97-109⁰F).
     
  20. 2010/03/20
    Bill

    Bill SuperGeek WindowsBBS Team Member

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    I used to work in a raised floor, dust free, "computer room" in Phoenix, Arizona that was kept at 65°F and the humidity at 50 - 55% (to prevent ESD). And of course the dust was controlled by a massive air filtration system that keep a constant breeze blasting through the place. It was a shock every time going from the computer room to 110+°F outdoors and back again. It's not really true it can make you more susceptible to diseases, but it can sure cause your sinuses to freak out due to adverse reactions, especially if an allergy sufferer. :(
     
  21. 2010/03/30
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    I started the computer for the first time, fitted with the stock cooler and thermal pads. I immediately went into the BIOS and checked the temperatures.

    The top and rear case fans are both set to low speed. Options are low-medium-high.

    After ~15 minutes:

    Ambient room temperature is 22°C. (Possibly higher since there's another computer exhausting warm air close by.)

    System Temperature is 35°C idling.
    CPU Temperature is 44-45°C idling.
    CPU Fan Speed is 1680-1700 rpm idling.

    Are these values normal?

    To which temperature should I set the CPU Warning Temperature?
     

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