Why Tables Appearance in Win Explorer Wrong?

Hi Guys,

I have this web site I did with SeaMonkey:
http://statelineriders.org/

A few days ago I added the "Club Store" to the 2nd table I use as a navigation bar. Here was the old page:
http://statelineriders.org/index-old.html

I was also (finally after months) able to remove the blank line between the two tables I use as navigation menu bars (see link below). The changes looked great in Safari (Mac), Firefox (Mac), SeaMonkey (Mac) and even an old copy of Explorer (5.2.2 Mac). I was REAL happy. Even looks Ok in Firefox for Windows.

THEN I ask my girlfriend to see how it looks in Explorer on her Windows XP machine.......EEEEEEEEE!!!! In both versions of my page (with and without a blank line between the tables) Explorer takes up more than one line for some text in the 2nd table. And in the version of with no gap between the tables Windows Explorer does not line up the right side of the top graphic (850 pixels wide).

Here is the version with no gap between the tables...how I really want it to look; with no gap:
http://statelineriders.org/indexx.html

Why can't Windows Explorer display tables properly?? Anything I can do to get it to display my tables correctly? I REALLY want to get this to look correctly...

The other thing I do not understand in Seamonkey is cell width by pixels. Below are the numbers I had to use for table two. But the individual cells, if added up, are more than 100 pixels off the 850 total. But these are the numbers I had to use to get the text to fit in each cell (on one line). Anyone know why?

Thanks,
Jeff

======= Table 2 ==============
Width: 850 pixels
Border: 1 pixel
Spacing: 2 pixels between cells
Padding: 2 pixels between cell border and content

Width of cells:
130
170
275
100
====
675 total (not even close to 850...)

 

Ok, think I found part of the problem. In her Internet Explorer she had the page text size set to "Medium "....as soon as I set it to "Smaller" the text in the 2nd (gray) menu bar (table) shrunk and fit on one line. Great.

Not sure why I saw different table widths earlier...I could not reproduce that.

BUT in Explorer on her XP machine the text in each cell in the second (gray) table it slightly left justified. Not centered like in the top (yellow) table. I tried several things in SeaMonkey and cannot correct this. This only happens in Explorer on XP. All the other browsers I tested the page with centers the text properly on both my tables, or "menu bars "

FYI this is now the page with the "gap" between the tables...I switched them back:
http://statelineriders.org/indexx.html

Jeff

 

. should be Giuseppe. Trust me, I am Italian.
As for the problem, I am getting mixed feelings. I will try to summarize:
A page was create in Seamonkey, and in the original post, it says that something does not look right in Windows Explorer, which is, basically, the list of stuff on the computer, including all icons. It is, pretty much, was you see in My Computer. The second post makes more sense, because Internet Explorer is mentioned, i.e. the Microsoft browser, an entirely different thing.
I am not a programmer, but I know that all the programs you mention follow the universal code. Only IE does not, and there is nothing that you can do in Seamonkey to make IE understand code. The reverse is, also, true. Pages created with Microsoft software will play nice only in IE. The other programs may have to resort to tricks, like IE Tab.

 

Tables

Jeff,

Don't know if it will help but, I'm a self taught web page maker who started in the days before Front Page and the other automatic code generator software. So, I still use an old DOS Text Editor to do my pages.

Most of what I do is by trial and error and I did Tables for several years and all along was doing it the hard way. Then one day I decided to look into what I had been doing for 10 years and did some reading.

I knew if I would write down what I learned it would help me remember so I did a web page on how to do Tables and it is at:... http://www.raysmyth.net/htmlhelp/7-table.html

Please understand this is the old fashion simple way as I have looked into using CSS but, shucks I'm too old to want to take the time to understand it so I truck on like always.

I thought perhaps the old fashion way might assist you in understanding what is going on.

I prefer using percentage settings rather then pixels because that makes table and column width the same regardless of the viewers resolution setting.

I have found when the tables have a gap between the text or another table that a code is missing some place. i.e. something has not been closed.

I find, IE is real fussy and sometimes will not read correctly if you leave a gap between two closing codes. i.e. like having a gap between </a> </center> - It don't make sense but, that's my findings.

BTW, I do all my menu links in tables same as you show on your site and have since day one.


My 2 cents, Ray

 

Thanks guys for all the suggestions and info. I am trying real hard for the web site to look good for the club. I get a little frustrated when I can't get things to work as intended

>>should be Giuseppe<<
Could be but the sign says Guiseppe...maybe the sign guy had it wrong and they did not fix it
http://statelineriders.org/guiseppes.htm
...all I know is they make a great turkey club with onion rings...and pizza...and wings...and....I am getting hungry!

Someone also told me "The website seems to render in Quirks mode....try setting the DOCTYPE to Strict mode... "

Thanks!
Jeff

 

Jeff, I too have spent many an hour frustrated over one little paragraph causing a problem.

I mentioned in my previous post about the gap and how fussy IE can be some times but, had forgotten one of those frustration caused me to post the problem on my web site and if you want to see what havoc some of those little mishaps causes go to http://www.raysmyth.net/dunce/16-quirk/00-quirk.html and review what I posted mainly to remind myself what I did to correct it.

Problem with doing that I had forgotten I even posted it or I would have told you about the link in my previous message.

So happened I just reviewed a thing I call the Dunces Corner which was put together for my high school web site and there was the posting I had done on "Quirks of the Browsers" which was the one on the gap in the coding.

I reviewed your clubs web site and you deserve some atta boys for putting it together as it is pretty complex and covers a lot of ground. AND you get a special "atta boy" because your menu links are the same way I do mine.

It also caught my eye because my youngest Grandson (20 year old) works in a local motorcycle shop and goes racing most every weekend.

Tony I did take a look at the W3C web site you provided and YES there are some pretty good dos and don'ts -- I think I have reviewed the site before but, I bookmarked it this time.

I found a site long time ago which I reference a lot and it is at:.. http://www.utoronto.ca/webdocs/HTMLdocs/NewHTML/htmlindex.html

Problem with the above site is, it is now long outdated. But, it has helped me over the years.

More 2 Cents, Ray

 

It is a technicality. Most Americans pay little attention to spelling. Correct spelling was pounded into me in Italy, and it remained in this country.
Some spellings are, actually, explainable, sort of, by the different pronunciation in English.
In other cases it is carelessness with foreign words. A shining example is: Viola for the French "Voila "!
I hope you get things squared away with the website.

 

That's an unfair characterization, IMHO. How about "Many Americans ... ", instead?

And, the proper use of diacritical marks can be just as important as correct spelling. For instance, it's not voila, but voilà.

 

...and, then, there are misspellings!

 

Jim,

Ok. If you want to be technical. As for voila', our typewriters do not have the proper stress mark. I could, probably, come up with something, but it is not necessary.

 

Hi Westie,

We've gone off topic here, but ...

I don't know about you, but I don't use a typewriter when posting to the BBS, and a letter using a grave (`), or any other diacritical mark, is easily inserted from a computer keyboard by using Microsoft's Character Map or the very useful free program AllChars.

This is a direct quote from the page you linked to with "but it is not necessary ":

"Yes, voilà requires an accent grave above the a. "
​

suggesting to me that it is, indeed, necessary.

 

Above is the entire statement. Anyway, thanks for the tip. I don't use a typewriter, of course, but I had misplaced the Character Map, which was necessary when I worked.
After seven years of retirement, my brains needs some punting, periodically.

 

I understood the entire statement, but it's only the second line of the answer that's germane.

After 11½ years, mine does, as well. A mind is a terrible thing to lose.

 

It took me several readings to understand the quote. I saw "fresh ", and came up with duh?
Then French, and I took it as applicable only to French. Oh, never mind.

 

Finally had some time to do some to try and tweak the site some. But I found out in SeaMonkey when I use "View" ... "HTML Source "..... it puts a lock on the first (DOCTYPE) line so you can't edit it, and won't let me change it to "Strict ". Am told that is a bug in Composer. Might have to use a text editor to edit it, and hope SeaMonkey does not mind.

Anyway, if one of you guys is using IE 8 can you tell me if the right side of the two tables lines up with the top 850 pixel wide graphic? Is the text centered in all cells?

In IE 7 it appears (when the text is small enough to fit on one line) the text in the top table centers Ok, but in the lower table the text seems to slightly off center. Does this happen in IE 8?

I will try and do a version of the page with the doctype set to "strict "...and maybe you guys can tell me if that improves things...

Jeff

 

Jeff,

In IE 8, The tables line up with the 850 pixels wide graphic but, the text is not centered regardless of the screen resolution or the text size.

I attempted to do some screen shots to show you how IE 8 looked and must have had my head you know where because I had forgotten the screen shots being an image would adjust to whatever the viewer has their screen resolution set too and not show what I am seeing on my the screen at the different resolutions.

Since your using a 850 Pixel wide graphic, I am wondering what screen resolution you are using and programming the web page too.

I've never used the composer in SeaMonkey but, you should have zero trouble making the image be the same width as the Link Menu Tables and have the link centered.

If you will tell me what resolution your using I would like to play with it some to see if I can make the text center and have the table even with the image.

My Screen Shots of IE 8 are posted at www.raysmyth.net/jeff --- AND, You will find the different views are at different screen resolution and if you check the images are the same as the screen resolution I used i.e. 1024 X 768 and 960 X 600 and 800 X 600. On the bottom of each image I explained how it was being viewed.

One of the things which appears wrong to me in the source code is the link which says "Send in Race Results, Club News and Events!!" if you look at the code there is two different addresses between the start <td> and the end </td>

I extracted the subject code and here is how it appears:................
<td style= "vertical-align: top; width: 275px; text-align: center; background-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); "><a href= "mailto:statelineriders@yahoo.com?subject=Site%20Feedback "><span
style= "font-weight: bold; "></span></a><a href= "mailto:statelineriders@yahoo.com?subject=Club%20News%20Report "><span style= "font-weight: bold; ">Send In Race Results, Club News &amp; Events!!</span></a> </td>

I noticed the Composer in SeaMonkey sure does put in a lot of unnecessary code and in some case it appears the TD code is saying LEFT Justify where you are wanting the link name to center.

I'll play with the coding some to see what I might do. For now take a look at the screen shot images and see if they help with your situations

More of My 2 Cents, Ray

 

Thanks for the screen shot Ray, it appears IE 8 is doing the same thing IE 7 does. The odd thing is the text in the top table centers fine, like it should.

You know, I just had a thought. As far as I know the text in the bottom table was centered also....BEFORE I "inserted" the extra Cell for the "Club Store ". I am thinking something is askew because SeaMonkey did not adjust some setting for the table when adding the cell. I am wondering if I just do a new 1x4 table from scratch if that will correct the problem? I will try that after dinner...

Ray, when you ask what resolution do you mean the screen resolution the computer? It is set to 1152x768 on this (7 year old?) PowerBook G4. I have a 19" on my desktop but have been using this old PowerBook for most of this as I make changes to the site almost daily. It works fine, but does get a little hot when trying to watch videos on the net. Got my eye on a new 15" MacBook Pro....maybe even a 17" MacBook Pro...as soon as I get some $$ set aside for it

Jeff