1. You are viewing our forum as a guest. For full access please Register. WindowsBBS.com is completely free, paid for by advertisers and donations.

new drive, no ntldr

Discussion in 'Windows XP' started by larkin, 2004/10/27.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. 2004/10/27
    larkin

    larkin Inactive Thread Starter

    Joined:
    2002/01/07
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi, on installing a new 200G maxtor internal ATA, all files from the older, working HD were copied, incl. wXPpro SP2. On the older HD, C: was a w98se, "G" was the XP partition, and on boot I made default the XP. On the new drive I've left out for now the w98se (I know, I'm spozed to install such FIRST. That didn't happen.). So there's only the wXP on the new drive, on its NTFS partition. There are also 2 FAT32 partitions. But the new drive isn't bootable, getting the ole "ntldr is missing" on boot. Things I've done which haven't worked:

    I've read a variety of answers online to similar questions, most seem to revolve around the boot.ini. So boot.ini precedes NTLDR in load order? Anyway

    The boot.ini was lacking on the XP partition (it resided in the w98 part on the old drive). Took a boot ini from a working PC, put it at root (c:) (in the new drive), here it is

    [boot loader]
    timeout=30
    default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
    [operating systems]
    multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS= "Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn

    It doesn't seem to matter for this mobo which controller takes the drive, I've tried it on both controllers & get the ntldr msg. I also tried changing the partition from (1) to (0), made no difference. Would fixing the boot.ini solve the problem, and what would I need to change?

    I've also tried fixboot & fixmbr (working in the WINDOWS subdir, I presume I didn't have to move to root dir, right?), none of these made a diff.
    Would fixboot & fixmbr on the orig. wXP CD, work on this OS which is now SP2?

    Should I try the CD option "auto repair w/cd" ?

    Or should I reformat the NT partition, ghost the NT files over?

    but first ghost over the w98?
    Thanks.
     
  2. 2004/10/27
    BillyBob Lifetime Subscription

    BillyBob Inactive

    Joined:
    2002/01/07
    Messages:
    6,048
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have one question ( or two ) for now.

    Did you copy the HD ( WHOLE ) or just copiy the FILES on the HD.

    It reads to me like you just copied the XP part.

    I presume that you presume wrong. Moving the Root Folder I don't think will cut any. Nothing in it is going to match anyway.

     

  3. to hide this advert.

  4. 2004/10/27
    larkin

    larkin Inactive Thread Starter

    Joined:
    2002/01/07
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thank you for your prompt reply, BillyBob.

    Did you copy the HD ( WHOLE ) or just copiy the FILES on the HD.

    It reads to me like you just copied the XP part.


    What happened is the Maxtor software went ahead & copied the entire drive. I thought I had specified to only initialize the drive, but apparently not. I set up the partitions differently on the new drive, and had XP/NTFS as the 1st part., on the old it was the 4th.

    Moving the Root Folder I don't think will cut any. Nothing in it is going to match anyway.

    This doesn't make immediate sense, but I presume you mean, even if I had moved to the root dir where you say I should have performed fixboot, etc., it would not have made any diff since the boot.ini was from a different PC. So there are invisible instructions in boot ini specifying a specific computer?



    I have copied a FULL HD ( which would include the boot sectors ) from a 40gig to an 80gig and it took at least 8 hours but it worked when I was done.

    Also I believe I read something about changing the position of XP.

    BillyBob


    It sounds like you made an exact copy of the whole drive. I don't want to do that, just the XP part. So your opinion is there is no way to fix or make a boot.ini, just reinstall xp. I believe XP has a helpfile to move things to the new drive that way.
     
  5. 2004/10/27
    larkin

    larkin Inactive Thread Starter

    Joined:
    2002/01/07
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    0
    And does boot.ini get accessed before NTLDR?
     
  6. 2004/10/27
    BillyBob Lifetime Subscription

    BillyBob Inactive

    Joined:
    2002/01/07
    Messages:
    6,048
    Likes Received:
    0
    Could that be ( or at least part of ) the problem ?

    How could Maxtor copy the whole HD and at the same time change Partitions ? Can that be done ?

    Maybe not a specific computer but certainly a specific HD. The Computer is much more than the HD.

    I believe there is a stuff that needs to be in the boot sector of the HD that one NEVER sees anyway.

    And does boot.ini get accessed before NTLDR?

    That I can not answer.

    BillyBob

    PS:
    I may be learning something here too.

    BB
     
  7. 2004/10/27
    surferdude2

    surferdude2 Inactive

    Joined:
    2004/07/04
    Messages:
    4,009
    Likes Received:
    23
    Paul, I'm not sure how you copied the XP files over to the new drive. I'll presume you used the Maxtor utility that came with the new drive.

    Furthermore, I'm wondering how you have been editing the XP files that are NTFS based. They aren't easily accessed when the drive won't boot. Anyway, assuming you used the Recovery Console or have a program to see the files, while you were looking at the files did you happen to notice if the NTLDR file was resident on the root?

    FYI, the NTLDR runs the show after it is activated by the MBR. (It is read before the boot.ini file to answer you directly.) It reads the Boot.ini file to locate the active boot partition. It continues to direct things all the way until it finally hands control over to the Ntoskrnl.exe. When the Ntoskrnl.exe takes over, booting is complete.

    But all that aside, it seems like you have managed to get the XP system files transferred but have left the bootloader files behind.

    The easy fix may be to create a XP Emergency Quick Boot Disk. It will help tell us what needs to be done to fix the system permanently.

    Here's how to do it on another XP system that is operating properly.

    1. Format a floppy on the XP based system.
    2. Copy or Drag/Drop the following three files from the C: root to the floppy:

    NTLDR
    NTDETECT.COM
    BOOT.INI

    That's it!

    Caution: It is absolutely necessary that the format of the floppy take place on an XP based system since the boot code differs from a DOS/Win9x/ME system.

    When finished copying the files, write protect that disk to be on the safe side. Then place it in the floppy drive of the ailing computer and power up. It should deliver you up to the Windows Desktop if all the rest of the system files are intact.

    Then you can copy the files from this boot disk to the root of the boot drive and try rebooting without the boot disk. It could still fail since the MBR may not be established properly on your new drive. That is fixable too but you will need to invoke the Recovery Console to make it easy.

    Post back how it goes and all observations along the way.

    ps. If you don't have access to another XP rig to make the boot disk, there are sites to download one from. Post back if need be.
     
    Last edited: 2004/10/27
  8. 2004/10/27
    Zander

    Zander Geek Member Alumni

    Joined:
    2002/01/07
    Messages:
    4,084
    Likes Received:
    5
    If 98 was installed to your c: drive that's where things went wrong. NTLDR , like boot.ini, is located in the root of your c: drive so it never got copied to the new drive. Give surferdude2's suggestion a try and see if it works for you.
     
  9. 2004/10/28
    larkin

    larkin Inactive Thread Starter

    Joined:
    2002/01/07
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi, using Surferdude's instructions, I've gotten part-way there. NTLDR loads from the floppy & boot.ini is apparently read, because I see XP loading from the maxtor drive. But the loading only gets so far as the blue screen; the messages cycle endlessly between "windows is loading your personal settings ", "logging off" and "saving your personal settings." I'm guessing this is due to that probably some of "my personal settings" were on the w98 (c:) partition on the old drive, which has not been transferred to the new drive. So the instruction set is stuck. Regular safe mode didn't resolve this, the same screen & messages recycling as in normal mode happen. I'm not proficient in fixing things in command line so it's a further waste of time to go to safe mode CLI.

    Unless or while a better idea is coming, I'll be ghosting over the w98 to its prepared partition on the new drive & see if that solves the problem.

    At worst, if this boot.ini & further probs don't get resolved here, I'll just reformat the drive, install XP & SP2, & use "files & settings wizard" to get approx. back to my daily setup.

    Thanks for all the advice so far...
     
  10. 2004/10/28
    surferdude2

    surferdude2 Inactive

    Joined:
    2004/07/04
    Messages:
    4,009
    Likes Received:
    23
    No, they don't reside anywhere but in the XP system files. You apparently have more problems than just the bootloader files being absent.

    All things considered, I would recommend doing the copy procedure again since it was apparently flawed and didn't get all the personal data files.

    If you don't use a program that is specifically designed to copy ALL NTFS files, these things can happen. As for a recommendation, I'd say any good disk imaging software will do the job. I use Acronis True Image but Symantec Ghost or Power Quest Drive Image, among others, will do fine too.

    I wouldn't trust the system that you may end up with after having to troubleshoot it from the gate. Do it again until you get a clean working version.

    Since you are moving a dual booted system, there will be some extra moves to perform after you get the image transferred. You'll need those three bootloader files placed on the root of the C: drive. Use the files from the disk you made rather than getting them from the old Win98 root. That way you'll leave the dual boot behind for the time being and keep the confusion down to a minimum. You can establish the dual boot later if you want but lets not just for now.

    Good luck.

    Edit: BTW, don't forget that you may yet have to repair the MBR on the new drive since it may not reflect the proper code to point to the NTLDR file instead of the IO.SYS as is normal for a dos based system. Not knowing how the XP system was transferred and in view of the other flaws of omission, I'd suspect the MBR is not right either. If it's not correct, that will make itself apparent later and you'll have to run the Recovery Console and then the Fixmbr command.
     
    Last edited: 2004/10/28
  11. 2004/11/06
    larkin

    larkin Inactive Thread Starter

    Joined:
    2002/01/07
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    0
    followup: New drive, no ntldr

    Hi, thanks for all the replies. This is what has worked, and then the description of the current prob.

    -called Maxtor. The only way they were sure installing this 200G would work would be to completely delete any existing partitions on the new drive and make an install using the winXP CD partitionning software. One of the techs said that this is due to an addressing issue, moving from 32-bit in drives below 137G, to 48 bit for above.
    -This worked.

    So I NOW need advice on how to access my XP 40G (the original drive) as an XP boot drive. When this is designated as boot, it goes into an endless loop between "loading your personal settings" , "saving your personal settings" and "logging off" messages.

    - On the 200G drive, I wanted a dual-boot setup (like I have on the 40G), so on the 200G drive, using XP disk manager, I set up the remaining 60+ G as FAT32, 2 partitions (1 primary, 1 ext. with 1 logical drive).

    I made the mistake of making this partition & installing w98se, with my 40G connected. This completely munged something somewhere on the 40G, on the XP partition, so it (the 40 G drive, wXP) does not complete loading & gets stuck in that endless loop described above. Safe mode does not bypass the problem, but replicates it.

    All I want to do now is to use XP's "file & settings" wizard to get all the data easily on the new drive. (This worked flawlessly going from 10G drive to the 40G, some time ago, but both drives were always bootable.) The wiz requires bootability from both drives, I now find out.

    Thanks.
     
  12. 2004/11/09
    larkin

    larkin Inactive Thread Starter

    Joined:
    2002/01/07
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    0
    new drive, no ntldr- dual boot question

    Hello: On the topic above, it's been solved in part. There is a working XP install on the 1st partition of the 200G. The next question:

    Has anyone here successfully set up a large (above the 137G limit) HD as a w98se/XP dual boot, with the XP on the 1st partition, and being the FIRST OS installed? What steps did you take?

    Here's the options I'm looking at:

    -BootIt! disk manager (terabyte inc., Las Vegas), which claims this has large disk support. I haven't received a reply from them but only emailed them yesterday.

    -a final try at changing the boot.ini, after install of 98se on FAT32 remaining space. I saw the following on Windows fix-zone, winXPfix.com. However, it is not a discussion forum & the poster did not have an email listed. I'm concerned that this patch may not have been on a large disk, which is my chief issue for posting.

    Here is how to install win98/ME on a computer with
    winxp/2000 already installed on a NTFS partition.


    By Ole Martin Rockstad
    Drammen, Norway

    Here is how to install win98/ME on a computer with WinXp/2000 already installed on a NTFS partition.

    First, format a partition with FAT32. (Use partition magic v7 or greater or
    similar to create a partition if there is no space left.)
    Make the partition active.

    Copy win98/ME cab files to \windows\options\cabs on the new partition.
    Boot computer with a win98 boot disk (Use winimage to create boot disks)
    Install Win98/ME from directory.

    Now, use your winXP/2000 CD and start installation under win98/ME.
    When it prompts you to reboot, reboot back into win98/ME and not into
    winXP/2000 setup.

    Edit Boot.ini file on the Fat32 partition from:
    [Boot Loader]
    Timeout=5
    Default=C:\$WIN_NT$.~BT\BOOTSECT.DAT
    [Operating Systems]
    C:\$WIN_NT$.~BT\BOOTSECT.DAT= "Microsoft Windows XP Professional Setup "
    C:\= "Microsoft Windows "

    To:
    [Boot Loader]
    Timeout=15
    Default=C:\
    [Operating Systems]
    C:\= "Microsoft Windows 98 Second Edition "
    multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\windows= "Microsoft Windows XP
    Professional "

    You can safely delete the $win_nt$.~bt directory afterward.

    That is all there is to it. WinXpFix.com


    If this boot.ini or BootIt! aren't solutions, what about installing 98se on another drive - should be no problems, right?
    Thanks.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.