Help requested for troubleshooting hardware.

Hello, I'm Forsaken Knight, (FK for short). I am posting here in order to get help with the hardware of my home pc. The pc has been experiencing several problems. Several issue with software have been retrieving assistance at the following location.

http://www.windowsbbs.com/showthread.php?t=69307

Now, onto describing the hardware issues that have been poping up in recent months.

Among the issues I have with my pc, the (addition, not built-in) video card has shown obvious signs of problems. The video card I am referring to is a Radeon 9600XT 128M DDR V/D/VO. This video card has displayed signs of sound, and performance issues. Such sounds are a short of grinding-like, busy working, sound. This sound displays itself randomly. The sound has occured when the pc is left alone, running a virus scan, running a large program (such as a game), and even when the pc is first turned on. The sound is not constant. It has a sort of "randomous" to its appearances'. For example, I could be running a scan or playing a game, and the sound will not come on. At another point in time, the sound will come on immediately as I started up a program that takes a substancial amount of cpu usage. Another issue I have noticed is that freezes and/or blue screen of death (BSOD) do not occure when it comes to video performance issues, that is to say, the moment I take out the card and start up the pc again. The quality and results of programs that require a good video card substantially to a tramendous amount.

Now I will talk about other areas of the physical components of my pc which have given rise to suspision.

One area are the fans located in my pc. There are a total of three fans. One built into the power supply unit (PSU). Another built into the back part of the case. And the last one on top of the heat sink. That is not including the fan that is built onto the video card I described in the previous paragraph. The air current force on all of the stated fans, appears to be lacking. I have tested this by opening up the case of my pc, and putting my hand near the fans as the pc is doing work. Another issue with the fans, is a slight, screeching sound. This sound occures whether or not I have the added video card plugged in or not. I have noticed that this sound is tied to work, or action done by the user. An example of which is with a web page that you can scroll through. If I hit the wheel button on my mouse, and scroll through the page, the sound is constant with the movement on the web page. The scound does occure briefly, even if no action is taken. I have also noticed that the screen itself is tied along with the screeching sound. A very slight blurrieness to the screen occures when the screech sound can be heard.

Lastly, the issue with my pc's hardware that I would like to bring up is that it is getting more difficult to turn on my pc. What I mean by this is, that recently when I first turn on the pc, the orange light on the right of the power button activates, but the green light on the left of the power button does not activate. I then wait to here when the pc stops doing any work, and then press and hold the power button to turn off the pc. I do this repeately untill the green light activates, showing that the pc is booting up normally. Now, keep in mind, that each time I reset the pc, I wait for the end of the process sounds that are made, this is a clear sign to me that nothing is going through. Also, unless the green light comes on, nothing appears on the screen, which as far as I can tell is working properly. I also, just cause I feel that the pc would "catch" better if it does not have it, is to take out the additional video card, and disconnect and take out the cords for the two CD drives, and "A" drive on my pc. I feel that doing this, will allow the pc to "catch" the start up more easily. After the pc boots up normally. I can either log in and go about my business, with out the stated components. Or shut down my pc, and plug in everything I said I take out, (after the pc "catches" the boot process completely, as long as I don't disconnect the power cord, I can install the components when the pc is off).

I am able to keep my pc on for days at a time, with very few BSOD occurances, but I can only do this if I keep my case open. I currently have it on its side, and its running fine with out the additional video card, and disconnect and take out the cords for the two CD drives, and "A" drive on my pc. But I don't want to settle for it to be the way it currently is. I want it back in perfect working order, just like before.

My pc is a Compaq Rresario AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2200+ 1.80 GHz, 992 MB of RAM. I have Microsoft Windows XP Professional Version 2002 Service Pack 2 installed on this pc.

O.k. Other than that, I have not, or recall any pending hardware issues that could be stated.

 

I just sent the following message to Forsaken Knight via PM before I realized he started this thread.

 

Here's some information to assist people who might refer to the Removing Spyware & Viruses thread link Forsaken Knight linked in his first post (which is a very loooooong thread, to say the least.

noahdfear posted his rationale for suspecting FK's power supply in post #44 of that thread.

FK then posted a couple brief messages followed by several posts including very lengthy Ad-Aware reports.

The hardware issue discussion continued in posts #69-74 of that thread (including a post by Rockster2U). I asked several questions in a few of those posts. Forsaken Knight answered some of those questions in his first post above (very well, by the way ) but some questions remain unanswered.

 

Lets take this in steps and I'm sure others will chime in with their thoughts along the way. First from an overview - there are potentially a few things that could merit some attention but first and foremost, it certainly sounds like your power supply is on its way out. Some of the things you reference re: noises/sounds, screeching, bluriness, failure to start, mouse wheel rf interference, blue screens, video & etc. may all be related to your power supply; however, they could be independent or unrelated issues.

My recommendation would be to first address your power supply. Dell, E-Machines, HP and Compaq have all used non standard (ATX standard) power supplies on some machines. Most of these manufacturers also used a perfectly good but minimal PSU. How does this affect you and your choices for replacement?

You must make sure you get a compatable PSU and it would be adviseable to get something with a little more power than what I suspect you have. Go to the Compaq website and investigate the cost of a direct replacement. Get the specs. Now you can start looking and have a basis of comparison. You may also find specs printed on the side of your current PSU but I can't guarantee that. I would expect you have a standard ATX PSU in the range of 300-350W. Let us know what you can about the PSU after you have researched it.

That processor should have 350W as an absolute minimum and I would suggest you look for something at least 400-450W with at least 18 amps on the 12 V rail. You will also need a PSU with a 20 pin main connector. (Note - some 24 pin connectors will work just fine if you can split the 4 pin 12V connector off independently and have enough wire to reach both motherboard connectors.) To be safe, post your exact machine model # so we can verify the validity of your findings and make additional comments or suggestions.

I personally am not going to discuss any of the other issues until we first get your apparent Power Supply problem resolved.

You did a nice job of describing the problems at hand.

 

specs on psu

The specifications of the PSU that I have installed are as follows:

Name: Bestec
Model: AAX-250-12Z REV.
Input:100-127V-6A , 200-240V-3A 50/60Hz
BST ATX-250-12Z D
OUTPUT +12V / 14A, -12V / 0.8A
250W MAX. +5V / 25A, +5VSB / 2A PEAK 2.5A
+3.3V / 18A,
+5V & +2.2V 165W MAX. +5V & +12V 218W MAX.
S/N: 134288-02120141572
HP P/N: *5187-1098*

The above information was recieved from the side of the PSU, while the pc was turned off.

 

I can't be positive that your PSU is all that ails you but my first recommendation would be to replace it with something better and more powerful. Yours (Bestec 250W) can be replaced for $30 or so but as stated earlier, that processor likes some juice and your ATI 9600 is going to draw considerable power, especially during an attempted start-up. If it were me, I'd be looking for something along the lines of 450W or better and buy quality. You will also have a 20 pin connector and I would expect to find a 4 pin 12V connector too (just can't be positive). Check this carefully against the specs of any PSU you are considering. NewEgg is a pretty good place to shop.

 

I've contacted a personal at the hp site regarding the PSU problem earlier this week, I'm waiting for a reply. Also, I would like to point out that only crashes have recently occured when I am playing an online game. I've seen video on the net, and video on my pc itself, no BSOD yet. So, if the problem lies with the PSU or the game, I'm not sure at this poiint. I started a thread in the windows xp category section regarding my game. I've posted recent error posts there. If you can read/understand what is stated in those posts', please state so in any of the threads I have started.

Also, I've noticed after the updating of my windows, Java, and norton products on my pc (while this whole problem is going on I mind you), that no real area catches my attention, except for the last one. The norton seems to be needing to update the virus definitions rather often. It would normally not be a problem for me to think it of such, but the files that it needs to download are always the same amount. They are not of any large portions, but it still heeds my attention towards it. After BSOD occurances, this seems to me even more true. I think it might be because I did not shut down my pc properly after downloading the update virus definitions, and the BSOD event that followed after testing whether or not my game itself is the cause of the problems with my pc. If this seems like something please state so.

 

I must have missed something.

Glad to learn these issues are no longer a concern.

 

Why do you say that?

 

Hey, i found some stuff at the compusa web site. Tell me which one you think I should go for. The reason I went to compusa is because I've been doing a little shoping for PSU's, to see if I can get it cheaper than the tech. support guy I spoke to stated for 250W replacement PSU's. I went to the radioshack web site, but they had about the same price range. So, tell me what you think?
These are deals I found for 250W:

This is one of them:
Diablo / PSDA250 / 250-Watt / ATX / 80mm Fan / Aluminum / Power Supply

This is the address of the web page to see more detail:
http://www.compusa.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=935375&CatId=1076

This is another one:
DiabloTek GM250WP Cool Power 250-Watt Power Supply

This is the address of the web page to see more detail:
http://www.compusa.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3424817&CatId=1076

These are deals I found for 300W:

This is one of them:
Diablo / PSDA320 / 320-Watt / mATX / SATA Ready / 80mm Fan / Power Supply

This is the address of the web page to see more detail:
http://www.compusa.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1220399&CatId=1077

This is another one:
DiabloTek GM300WP Cool Power 300-Watt Power Supply

This is the address of the web page to see more detail:
http://www.compusa.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3424758&CatId=1077

This is another one:
Coolmax / CX-300B / Silver / 300-Watt / ATX / 120mm Fan / SATA-Ready / Power Supply

This is the address of the web page to see more detail:
http://www.compusa.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=719577&CatId=1077

This is another one:
ALLIED 300W ATX POWER SUPPLY PC PWR

This is the address of the web page to see more detail:
http://www.compusa.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=486034&CatId=1077


The guy I spoke to from Hp said that if I go for 100W more than 250W, that it is possible that I might literally cook my system. Obviously, I don't want to do that.

So, which one is good.

 

Wow, get this.

Hey, did you know that compusa went out of business like five days ago? I called up a compusa store near me and the manager on duty told me so. Wow, just wow. I really thought that place was a good store ya' know. I wonder if the location near me will be gone in the next six months, or if they will go strong? Well, I gotta go to that store, see ya for now.

 

Hey, the power supply is not the source.

I bought a 300Watt ATX Power Supply from compusa. I unplugged the other one, (after turning off the power and unplugging everything from the back, of course). Plugged in the minimum of things, and turned on my pc. The pc went through the same process as I have described in the malware forums. And after multiple on and off attempts, I was able to log in. While my settings were loading up, the BSOD appeared, giving the common message in this circle of problems. So, I turned off my pc, and turned it back on. I repeated this till I am able to do things normally, well, as normal as the problem allows me to be.

And there you have it, the PSU is not the culperate of the BSOD. I bought a new power supply, and the same things happened. So, what else should I test out? Or should I do some software type of troubleshooting at this point? One thing I've noticed, but I have not run major things yet to test it, is that that high pitched screech is either minimized, or gone. If it appears again, I'll post that it is still around.

Oh, one thing I want to check out, but I don't know how to get to it is, the IQ Manager. How do I check this, and how do I fix this? I've posted an event on the Malware part of my pc in the security section of the threads here that state recent events of BSOD that stated, "the IQ Manager has detected a falty driver ... ". It went something like that, and the post that has me meantioning that is one of my more recent ones in that thread.

So, what do I do now?

 

Perhaps you need to review your threads and take some notes, your comprehension isn't quite what it needs to be. I don't believe anyone ever implied your blue screens would be corrected simply by replacing your power supply. Further, you just bought a 300W PSU of unknown !2V amperage. It was recommended that you consider at least 400-450 with a minimum 18amp 12V rail. You have a 2200+ Thoroughbred Athlon K-7 running at 266MHz on a 133Mhz bus and the recommendations on the PSU were far from arbitrary.

I wish you well on your quest for a solution.

 

I question the credibility of the guy from HP. I would at least ask the HP representative to explain how a good quality 450W (or more) power supply can "cook" a system. That's the first I have heard of a risk of "cooking" a system by using a good quality power supply that has more than ample capacity for a given system.

I still stick with my original power supply suggestions here and here. So far, you have not given any indication that you have carried out any of the research I suggested regarding power supply choices.

Rockster2U, mattman, noahdfear and others are very experienced with computers (compared to me anyway). I seriously doubt any of them would offer advice that would cause someone to "cook" a system. I would not hesitate to carefully follow their advice regarding my computer(s). If you wish to place all credibility in a single unknown (to us anyway) HP representative and ignore the advice of people here at Windows BBS, then you're certainly free to make that choice.

You're free to ignore recommendations/suggestions I (and others) have made. However, don't be surprised if we stop offering assistance in that case.

What is the brand and model of the PSU? What are all the other specifications of the PSU?

Based on Rockster's statements and my own gut feeling, I think 300 watts (even if it is good quality) may still be underpowered for your hardware. Therefore, I do not think you have properly ruled out your power supply as a potential factor in your hardware issues.

You're free to draw any conclusions you wish (even if you do not have enough data or expertise to draw such conclusions IMHO).

Regardless, I still wish you good luck in resolving your issues.

 

The cooking the m/b comment made me wide-eyed as well. If you are making phone calls to HP, I suggest instead to try using email contact with their support. People on the phone don't tend to admit that they don't really know the answer. Also note that HP will want you to use their own replacement equipment (and I think you will find the cost is not low). HP tend to have PSU's that are only just powerful enough to run the factory installed hardware.

I don't think that squeeling noise was a very good sign. I might wonder if one of the voltage rails was running very high and so I would hope that no damage has been done to the hardware. You might want to look very closely at the fans and check there is no sign of scorching.

I have one ATI 9600XT graphics card that has had the fan burnt out and was given another by a friend when I found the fan was failing. I am running mine with a PCI slot fan next to it, the other I can attach a old CPU fan to.

Re: Swapping graphics. You can swap between built-in graphics and an add-in card if only drivers and no graphics software is installed. If graphics software is running at startup and you switch graphics adapter, that may be the reason for the BSODs. To swap between adapters, you should ensure that any associated software is uninstalled. You will need to check in Control Panel -> Add or Remove Programs for any associated software.

I have not read the whole of the other thread. See if you can get a dump file readout
http://www.windowsbbs.com/showthread.php?t=33471

Hit and miss for drivers (but certainly won't hurt)? Go to the HP website, look up your model, download and install all the major drivers. Start with the motherboard/chipset drivers (Intel call them INF Updates EDIT: you won't have an Intel chipset, they are only installed with Intel CPU's). As mentioned, don't install software for the built-in graphics if you are going to run the ATI card.

Matt

 

Responses from the recent posters.

In response to Rockster2u;

Just so everyone knows, i didn't intend to direct the problem, or the help I would recieve, towards the hardware aspect of my pc. I merely stated openly and honestly, about my pc problem at hand. I never did think it would fix the problem if I got a new power supply, but I went and did so anyways. This pc is from 2002, and it has been running with the same PSU that it came with this whole time. This is the first time that this specific problem appears on this pc of mine. Oh, and to finalize the reason as towards why I got a 300W PSU instead of a 450W one, is because I simply don't have enough money for what they were selling 450W PSU's for. I'll try to take my pc into school, and ask my friend if I can test something with a 450W PSU while I'm there. Every scan program runs fine, ad-aware, Dss, norton, etc. Except for Spybot S&D and the gaming program I've stated in previous posts of mine. I've gone more into detail about this in the windows xp section of the thread forums, if you want to review it. Anyways, while trying to run Spybot S&D, i've noticed that the gaming program and Spybot have something in common, in the task manager, they both take a substantial amount of CPU usage. Now, when the BSOD appears with either one, they are both running for a short while before the BSOD happens. So, with that said, I think my problem lies with something in relation towards that concept. Oh, and just so you all know, according to the clerk lady at compusa, they will officially close all the stores of compusa on the 8th of next month. If prices drop by then, and they have PSU's of 450W in stock, (and I have enough money of course), I'll go and buy a 450W PSU. that is to say, that after testing a 450W PSU at my school, and running Spybot that completes a scan, that is the culperate.

In response to mailman:

The reason why I did not go with the suggested PSU that he recommended is because of price, and that it was for a 250W PSU. It was practically $45.00, (not including shipping and handling). So, that is why I was looking around on the net for stores in my area that I know specialize in PC parts. I wasn't taking an HP employee's advice over the advice of someone from this site, (since that isn't the case, don't get offended because of it). And that goes for both, people I get advice from the phone and/or in person, and those that I have gotten to know online. Since I' am taking the advice of another, and implementing it, I have to think over how I am going to go about doing things, in order to not have repercussions later. Oh, and as to why I haven't bought a PSU from newegg is because, I don't have enough credit to purchase anything online. In addition, I've stated in my above text, that money is simply tight with me at the moment. I don't know when I will be loose again, but I hope my current situation betters (knock on wood). Oh, and I never did think, (and I've stated this before), that any of the posters whom have responded to the threads on this site that I started here, have/had anything less than honest to good intentions. So no, I never did think that plugging in a 450W PSU would actually cook my system. I just didn't have the money for it. So, with that said, don't take offense that I spoke to an hp rep. and took what he said into account, along with what those whom posted responses here have stated. I was actually going to look at a specific 450W PSU that I saw on the compusa web site, which was in my price range, but it wasn't in stock when I got there, and the ones that were in stock, were thirty bucks more than I could afford. As for the specs o the PSU I bought, I have to turn off my pc and take a look at the actual PSU, nothing much is said on the box itself.

Also, I've noticed that both of you two have stated "I wish you well/good ... ". If I'm not mistaken, then these statements at the end of your posts were basically saying that, your at the end of the line here, and I've basically given up on ya. If that is what both of your intentions in those last statements, then I'm stund. I'm pretty sure that all of my postings were not harsh, or rude in any manner. The fact that offence has been taken for what I have posted here to this point, makes me think, "what the heck? ". This is because I thought, if I were general and open with those who offered help, they would understand what I posted even more so. Sadely, it looks like that is not the case.

Oh, and mailman, when you did ask me to get the temperature from my pc, I did get it and put it on a cue card. But my roommate misplaced that card, and since I've needed to leave the pc on in order to do my daily tasks, I haven't gotten that information again. When I turn off my pc to look at my newly PSU, I'll get that info. again when I turn it back on and post those two topics of information.

In response to mattman:

The comment made me think twice too. That is why I was looking online for 350W to 450W PSU's. I did state that I'd prefer e-mail contacts, when the first time someone called me from hp asking for the specs on the back of my pc case. I'd prefer this way because it leaves a paper trail. That way, I can refer back to it if I speak to multiple people upon this matter from hp. I did not go with what the guy suggest for the reasons I stated in my response to Rockster2u. As I've stated, that squeeling noise is either subsided, or gone. I have yet to hear it, even when starting up my pc with the 300W PSU. I have examined the fans, while I was cleaning my pc. No parts anywhere were showing any "scorched" marks. Otherwise, I would have stated in one of my posts. At this point, its obvious that I can get long winded, so every little detail that I have noticed/found, I have posted in one of the threads I have started. I have troubleshooted the graphics card as well. I've stated that the BSOD happens even without the added graphics card put in. I did state that the fans seemed weak, but none of them stopped working altogether. All of them work, (all three, not including the PSU), just not a tropical storm wind is coming out of them. I've tried putting this mini-fan that works well directed towards the inside of my pc. I've placed it facing directly the heatsink, the graphics card, and the drives. All at which, some point, the pc had a BSOD incident. I have swapped between the built in graphics and the add in card. I've stated this in the spyware & malware thread I started. When I post next time, I'll state which post number, and provide a link to that as well. The rest of your post, I will do as you said, and look into it further.

 

Hey, I tried the 450W PSU at my school this past week. The BSOD still happened. So, now that I'm sure that the PSU is not the problem, what should I do now?

Oh, and in case your wondering why I haven't been on for a while, its because my life makes me choose between everything like I don't have time. Got a new job, school work, and home chorse just make it not easy to put time on the side for "fixing stuff" time, ya know.

 

FK,

The concern with your power supply was not so much because of bsods, but more geared toward your startup problem and noise from fans. BSODs can be the cause of many things, and when you consider they are only happening when the system is put under a heavy load (Spybot scan, gaming, etc), it might indicate a separate problem. The big question here is whether or not you can start the PC normally and if the fans continue to be noisy. If those two things were resolved by replacing the PSU, then I'd say we can move along with cleaning up the system. If you're still experiencing BSODs after cleanup, then we can look into that when cleanup is complete.

 

I have just installed a ATI Radeon 9600XT that had been a bit noisy, carefully cleaned the blades of all dust and other deposits taken out the fan and and used very high quality fine oil to lubricate the fan and then reinstalled it runs now very smooth no noise at all, it also can be replaced with a Zalman ZM80D-HP fanless Heat Pipe Cooler.
I uninstalled the drivers (Matt's instructions) and installed the latest ATI drivers 8.1 released 16/01/08 and they work just very well with that card I would recommend them highly.
hawk22

PS: I would also like to add that I run Athlon XP2600 with this card and would not use a PSU under 430W

 

To noahdfear

Well then, no, the multiple start up attempts was still present when I tested it at my school. So, now that thats' clarified, what else should I do?