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How to insert a Hub between modem and router?

Discussion in 'Networking (Hardware & Software)' started by dexter007, 2007/01/27.

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  1. 2007/01/27
    dexter007

    dexter007 Inactive Thread Starter

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    I have a cable connection with a cable modem and 2 wireless routers. Now i have purchased a 8 port ethernet Hub. I want to install the hub between the wireless router and the modem. The sole purpose of this would be to monitor traffic from my kids on yahoo etc.... With wireless router the capturing does not work. Since a hub transmits all the packets to all the connection. I want insert a monitoring PC on my HUB.

    I am not too much into networking. Can some help me out with this?
     
    dexter007,
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  2. 2007/01/28
    TonyT

    TonyT SuperGeek Staff

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    Why 2 wireless routers? One for kids in other part of house setup as an access point only?

    Do it like this:

    modem > router > hub > router > clients

    To monitor any wired traffic other than your own you need to also be connected via the hub. The wireless routers have a switch so you cannot grab that traffic from other switched clients. But if all clients connect to the last router on the chain, and then to a hub, then you too must connect to that hub to see all the traffic.

    The other option would be to use linux and a wifi connection and a free tool called Kismet, which will grab ALL wlan traffic on ALL wlans in range. You can do this in Windows too if have a supported wifi adapter and the proper tools: http://www.tamos.com/products/commwifi/
    http://www.wildpackets.com/products/airopeek/overview
     
    TonyT,
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  4. 2007/01/28
    visionof

    visionof Inactive

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    Kid's Yahoo Messenger "Supervision "

    What is your setup ?
    You mention 2 wireless routers .
    What is the setup - as done improperly or complexly it will cause no end of troubles ?

    Several possibilities:


    1) a program to read your kids yahoo messenger archives :

    http://www.download.com/Super-Yahoo-Messenger-Archive-Decoder/3000-2150_4-10570430.html?tag=lst-0-4

    2) a monitoring program:

    http://www.download.com/System-Surveillance-Pro/3000-2162_4-10625684.html


    3) You can add in a deluxe firewall with advanced monitoring capabilities using a throwaway pc with a program such as smoothwall or ipcop. Think that smoothwall was the easier offshoot of the two.

    http://www.smoothwall.org/


    4) Some routers such as the trendnet models have a very good url logging log as opposed to the regular router logs that spit out numbers

    I should add that ultimately your kids are probably more computer saavy than most adults. Ensure that your routers do not have easy physical access in order that your kids do not simply reset the routers with a pin and then set the routers back after use to the preexisting settings
    A case in point. A friend of my sons was congratulated by his parents that after a thorough inspection of his computer they had not found "any pornography ". They rewarded their son with a car ( a nice Accura).
    It was a wireless home network in a newer house. The distances are fairly short and walls are thin with plastic pipes so speed of wireless transmission is not an issue. My son had set up the network. The storeage point for the boy's downloads was on his sister's computer in a shared hidden folder located and hidden under an ATI driver folder.
    When I asked my son why he did not put the folder in a folder marked system or system file in the windows folder as a tip off might of been the apparent large size of driver folder he explained that he had tried that and that windows would not allow you to place a hidden folder there and that no one ( certainly not adults) would ever think of the driver folder or play around with it as it with labelled with the name of the essential video system so it was safe. Lol.
    If your kids detect your apparent supervision you should consider the ramifications to yourself. Trust is a difficult item to restore in relationships of lost.
    Ultimately in life you discover that you have very little control over anything in life - certainly control over other people.
    You are not going to be able to supervise or control your kids 100 hours a day, forever or even now.
    Better to have them learn that you trust them and will do your best to support them in their struggles and times of need rather than try to control and "supervise " them 24 hours a day.
    Control issues seem to be an ongoing problem with alchoholics.

    take care
    .
     
    visionof,
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  5. 2007/01/28
    dexter007

    dexter007 Inactive Thread Starter

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    My current setup

    Here is my current setup

    DSL Modem
    +----D-Link router (WAN DHCP, LAN NON-DHCP)
    +-----Hub (Connection to my pc also)
    +----TredNet router (No Wire in WAN PORT only in LAN Port from Hub, Straight wire)

    Now what i can do is restrict anyone one from connection to D-Link router, so that everyone has to connect to trednet router. That way all trafic will go through hub. Now the only issue is that i want Trednet router to be DHCP. And i am not able to configure the router, so that internet could be browsed. IP for my D-Link router is 192.168.1.1 and for Trednet is 192.168.1.2 and my PC is 192.168.1.3. When i connect to Trednet router i am able to ping all 3 IPs but i cannot browser the internet. When i try an configure the WAN IP of Trednet router to 192.168.1.1, it's say Invalid WAN IP and does not allow me to set it up.

    So the issue i want to resolve is the last connection between Hub and Trednet router. So that internet is available through trednet.
     
    dexter007,
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  6. 2007/01/28
    visionof

    visionof Inactive

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    Confiusing

    It is all very confusing both in straighforward networking and description.
    If you have 2 dhcp enabled routers in parallel you will have two routing tables in effect in line.
    Results can be erratic and frustrating especially if you visit sites such as banking.
    Is it a cable broadbamd connection or dsl.
    If it cable you could place the hub after the modem

    i.e broadband modem > hub > two routers each with dhcp
    if it is dsl it a bit more complex.
    You need something to log you on to the internet a hub cannot do it.
    You could use either a router with dhcp off or internet sharing on a computer but if would have to be on all the time.
    There also is a linksys router with one port only for logging on networks.
    Actually the single logged on computer could be a good solution for your surveilance of your kids.
    Having the one gateway computer would allow you to use network surveilance software very easily.
    And it would be easier to deny to the kids as to what you were up to .
    You sure must trust them a lot.
     
    visionof,
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  7. 2007/01/28
    dexter007

    dexter007 Inactive Thread Starter

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    The thing is that one of PC is Mac and another is XP.

    Second i cannot a hub between the Cable Modem and Router as my cable connection gives me a Single dynamic IP. And its not possible to configure by using a hub this way.

    i have 2 routers but for me its not necessary to use both of them. If 1 can do the job then i will use 1. If i need 2 to make such kind of a setup then i will use 2.
     
    dexter007,
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  8. 2007/01/29
    ReggieB

    ReggieB Inactive Alumni

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    Why don't you just set up the system as:

    [modem]--[router]--[hub]--[all PCs]

    This would be the simplest set up. If you have a hub all traffic goes to all ports. A hub is simply a multiport repeater (where as a switch is intelligent and sends addressed packets to one port, and only broadcasts to all ports). If everyone uses the hub, a single PC connected to that hub will be able to see all traffic going over the network.
     
    ReggieB,
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  9. 2007/01/29
    visionof

    visionof Inactive

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    Monitoring Your Kids at Home

    Yes that is the simplest setup.
    However the kid's ( or victims) computers would not have seperate ips.
    One of the overriding concerns of the whole exercise was to set up Yahoo messenger monitoring abilities on the networks by the parent.
    Another option is to install vnc on each of the kids computers.
    http://www.realvnc.com/what.html
    Install the server VNC program on each of your kids computers.
    http://www.realvnc.com/what.html
    All you have to do is install the viewer version on the adult's computer.
    Just run the viewer.
    With network magic or the router you can easily determine the ips of each computer .
    Just put the ip address of the victim's computer
    i.e 192.168.1.109 into the vnc viewer server name and voila you have full viewing of the screen and more.

    Fun and games at home and the workplace .
     
    visionof,
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  10. 2007/01/29
    TonyT

    TonyT SuperGeek Staff

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    Huh?
    In this setup [modem]--[router]--[hub]--[all PCs] (as reg laid out)
    ALL comps connected to the hub will have separate ip addresses assigned by the dhcp router. This way, the "parent" can monitor all traffic in & out of the lan using specific messenger sniffer utils or general sniffers such as Wireshark or Ethereal.

    However, because both routers are wifi routers, this is what dexter007 needs to do so as to monitor the wifi connections on the lan:

    DLink:
    disable the dlink wifi capabilities
    enable dlink dhcp & firewall rules & filtering

    Trend router:
    disable trend dhcp
    setup this router as ONLY an access point
    assign it a static ip of 192.168.1.2
    disable any trend firewall capabilities and filters

    Lan:
    modem > dlink > hub > trend > wifi clients

    To monitor the lan you will need to be wired to the hub. You can still use wifi on your comp and keep the cat5 connected to the hub, but to monitor you will have to kill the wifi connection so Windows then will use the wired connection.

    Unless you use expensive Windows wlan utils for monitoring the wlan, you won't be able to sniff the wlan traffic. This is NOT due to the lan setup, it is due to the fact that Windows wifi adapter drivers don't have support for rfmon (monitor) mode. The "expensive wlan monitor utils" I mentioned supply their own generic wifi adapter driver that enables the adapter chipset's rfmon mode. Wifi adapters operate in modes, to name a few modes:

    adhoc mode - a peer to peer connection, similar to using a crossover cable between 2 computers.

    managed mode or station mode - as a client connected to a wlan, this is default mode so can connect to access points.

    master mode or ap mode - the adapter can be used (along with additional software) to act as an access point and router.

    rfmon mode or monitor mode: used to "sniff" raw 802.11 frames (the adapter ONLY listens and cannot transmit)

    wds mode - wireless distribution system, adapter used to connect large wlans by linking several acces points together. This type of setup is used by wifi isps or businesses.

    There are many others modes a wifi adapter can use, they are dependant upon the adapter chipset and the drivers. Windows wifi adapter drivers support only the basic modes of adhoc & managed.
     
    TonyT,
    #9
  11. 2007/01/29
    Scott Smith

    Scott Smith Inactive Alumni

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    Scott Smith,
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  12. 2007/01/29
    dexter007

    dexter007 Inactive Thread Starter

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    Mac PC

    Scott, one of the PC is Mac, so i cant install anything on that. And i dont want to install something on the PC which i want to monitor.

    I tried installing AiroPeel NX but that does not support my network card.
     
    dexter007,
    #11
  13. 2007/01/29
    dexter007

    dexter007 Inactive Thread Starter

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    Simplified Problem

    Ok i will simplify the problem

    I have a 8 port hub (with 1 uplink port) and I can connect it to my PC giving the ip address as 192.1.168.30 and the gateway IP as 192.168.1.1. Now how do i add a WIFI router to this hub.

    The router has 1 WAN + 4 LAN port. I want to know how to connect the router to the hub so that it works. Do i need to use a straight cable or a Xsover cable and which ports to use?
     
    dexter007,
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  14. 2007/01/30
    TonyT

    TonyT SuperGeek Staff

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    Follow the instruct I posted above:
    modem > dlink > hub > trend > wifi clients

    The trend wifi router MUST be setup as such:
    disable dhcp (dhcp addresses will be handled by the dlink)
    config the trend as ONLY an access point.
    assign the trend the ip address of 192.168.1.2
    The above are done by accessing the trend control panel via a web browser.
    Connect the trend using a regular cat5 cable to ANY lan port on the hub and to ANY lan port on the trend.

    Get the idea that the trend "is just another pc connected to the hub ".

    This would be much simpler if you had a trend standalone access point instead of a trend router-access point because all you need is an access point at the "bottom" of the network, thus must disable the router functionality of the trend.

    Go to "support" at the trend Web site and grab the manual for your trend wifi router. It will contain instructions on how to use it in "AP mode only ".
     
    TonyT,
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  15. 2007/01/30
    dexter007

    dexter007 Inactive Thread Starter

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    I am getting your point. I will download the manuals today and will try the configurations you suggested. Just one more question...I would need to connect a straight cable from the Hub to the Trednet router? right..
     
    Last edited: 2007/01/30
    dexter007,
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  16. 2007/01/30
    TonyT

    TonyT SuperGeek Staff

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    yes, it's like adding a switch, in fact it's exactly like adding a switch except you are at the same time adding an AP.
     
    TonyT,
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  17. 2007/01/30
    Scott Smith

    Scott Smith Inactive Alumni

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    And DO NOT use the WAN port on the Trend box.

    One router per network creating one subnet.
    Multiple routers will create multiple subnets (not good in a small Home network)
     
    Scott Smith,
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  18. 2007/01/31
    dexter007

    dexter007 Inactive Thread Starter

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    Well, i was able to make it a Access point and the network is completely setup as i wanted. But still the data capturing party is not working. i had to use a crossover cable from hub to last router(AP) LAN port to make it work. And know i connect my pc to the hub but all software show my conversations only. Not sure why the hub config is not working.
     
    dexter007,
    #17
  19. 2007/02/01
    TonyT

    TonyT SuperGeek Staff

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    What packet sniffer are you using? Your network adapter MUST support Promiscious Mode.
     
    TonyT,
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  20. 2007/02/01
    dexter007

    dexter007 Inactive Thread Starter

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    It does not support it i guess :( thats working fine on some other PC but not mine, but anyways that works fine.
     
    dexter007,
    #19
  21. 2007/02/01
    dexter007

    dexter007 Inactive Thread Starter

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    Thanks everyone for helping me out on this. I learned few new things in networking :)
     
    dexter007,
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