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Upgrading CPU & Motherboard

Discussion in 'PC Hardware' started by hawk22, 2006/01/25.

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  1. 2006/01/25
    hawk22

    hawk22 Geek Member Thread Starter

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    Hi all, This is another "I don’t know what to do" question. I am planing to upgrade, but don’t know which way to go.
    My Heart tells me to go AMD Socket A mobo with AMD Athlon XP 3000+ CPU
    My Brain tells me to go AMD Socket 939 with AMD 939 3500 CPU using the ASUS A8N-VM CSM mobo .
    Will my standard 300W Power Supply stand up to that.
    I would appreciate some sound advice, including all the Gory Parts.
    Hawk 22
     
    hawk22,
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  2. 2006/01/25
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff

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    Socket A is history. In Sweden it is no longer available, even through web shops. A friend of mine wanted to upgrade his Socket A computer with a better processor but there is no one to get. Socket A mother boards often (always?) come with PC133 SDRAM which is inferior to any DDR memory and in addition to that, more expensive.

    I would go Socket 939 without a second thought.

    A 300W power supply should be OK with the ASUS A8N-VM CSM. Integrated graphics and no SLI capability means that no fancy stuff like dual graphics cards will load the power supply and I think you will be OK with the common stuff (two hard disks, two optical devices and 2 x 512 MB PC3200 DDR).

    Christer
     
    Christer,
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  4. 2006/01/25
    Chiles4

    Chiles4 Inactive

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    The direction you head is up to your budget. Obviously, a socket 939 board will last you alot longer than a Socket A board will. I don't have trouble finding Athlons, but I'm having severe troubles finding a socket A board. Interestingly, I finally found one on the shelf where I keep all my mainboard boxes. :)

    There's no real great way to tell if your 300W PSU will handle a socket A setup until you try it. Is it a highend PSU or one that just came in a case? Will it have all the right plug types that your new board will require? I don't know. 300W is really borderline these days.

    Gary
     
    Chiles4,
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  5. 2006/01/27
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    A 939 motherboard would require having an extra 4 pin power connector. Socket A motherboards do not require them, they became necessary when the Pentium 4 was released, and now the new AMD CPUs use them as well. If you want to use the same power supply for a 939 m/b, check it has the 4 pin connector (download the motherboard manual if you are not sure).

    A 939 CPU will require more power, but 300 watts would be OK if you did not have a lot of other hardware as well. Check on the power calculator:
    http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/

    Christer, the current Socket A motherboards do use DDR RAM, you may be thinking of the Thunderbird models, the RAM changed in the meantime. Hawk22 will probably need new RAM as you suggest, even if it was early DDR (like PC1600 or PC 2100), it would be very slow.

    Matt
     
    mattman,
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  6. 2006/01/27
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff

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    Matt,
    I didn't do my homework very well before posting but I believe you are right. I also missed the need for a four-pin power connector from the PSU.

    No matter what ...... :cool: ...... in my book, Socket A is history.

    Christer
     
    Christer,
    #5
  7. 2006/01/28
    Rockster2U

    Rockster2U Geek Member

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    The general concensus is pretty accurate - basically you've been told to go with the 939 and be careful with your choice of PSU for good reason.

    High end socket A Boards are increasingly difficult to find and premium 462 CPU's have skyrocketed in price. Most are out of production, so one would be purchasing inventory closeouts or as an alternative, refurbished or used parts. Not necessarily a good idea unless one has a specific need.

    And, as has been stated - to clear up a couple of misconceptions - Most late model socket A boards required both DDR memory and a 4 pin power connector.

    Chiles4 - if you are in need, I still have a source for NF7S V 2.0 and A7N8X-E Deluxe but expect these inventories to be gone within 2-4 weeks max. Can also still get 2500+, 2600+ and 2800+ mobiles from a reliable supplier but won't be posting for public consumption.

    ;)
     
    Rockster2U,
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  8. 2006/01/28
    hawk22

    hawk22 Geek Member Thread Starter

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    Hi, and thanks for the input, the answer seems to be unanimous here, and the more I think about it the more it makes sense.
    I have been reading up a bit on the Gigabyteâ€GV-K8N51PVMT-9" Geforce 6150 Motherboard and it reads to be the type of board that I would be looking for, as I am not a big Gamer at all and it has good audio as well any recommendation on this board.
    I have searched out many online PC Stores but no one seems to have this board here in Aust. Only the K8N51GMF-9 has this board been fully released ??
    And yes my PS has the P4 4 Pin. The Socked A mobo that I had selected was the
    ASUS A7V8X-MX and it used DDR Memory I think.
    I do appreciate any input on this pending upgrade, the more info the better.
    As Chiles4 states in the end it will come down to the budget, but I will have options to manoeuvre in.
    Thanks for now
    Hawk22
     
    hawk22,
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  9. 2006/01/30
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    Hello Rockster (been busy :) ), thanks for the extra info.

    Yes, socket A has had it's day...and a good day it was. There will not be any further development of that model, so the fastest model you can get now will be the limit (although, motherboard manufacturers may bring out BIOS upgrades for faster CPUs if they are not already at the limit).

    PCI-X may make a difference. With PCI-X you automatically need a new graphics card. Standard PCI slots are being included on new motherboards along with PCI-X slots, although there are not many PCI-X "cards" to be found at the moment.

    At the moment I have a "64 bit" motherboard with standard PCI slots. I will be able to try using a 64 bit CPU and OS using my old cards, although, unless the hardware/card has 64 bit drivers it will only work as 32 bit...from my understanding (and from my unclear memory of the 16 bit to 32 bit upgrade :)) .

    Anyway, the 939 socket will be certain to have future upgrades.

    Matt
     
    mattman,
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  10. 2006/01/30
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff

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    The question is what PCI express and SLI brings in real world performance. I have read that going from AGP 4x to AGP 8x was a lot of hype and most users made unnecessary investments (low gain to dollars ratio).

    When friends ask me to suggest components for a new build, I consider two things; the budget and what is reusable from the previous computer. If something is "good enough" to be considered for reuse, then the computer itself will probably be "handed down" and reused as a working unit. However, if someone has an expensive AGP 8x card, it may be wise to stay with AGP graphics and not go PCI express.

    The most recent builds have ended up with a PCI express graphics card. The motherboards had SLI capability but no one opted for dual graphics cards. There is the possibility, though, to buy a good SLI capable graphics card and a year or so later, when the price is "right ", a second one can be added.

    Let's assume that the budget dictates a cheaper processor, say a single core but a dual core would be nice. The dual core is twice as expensive so, you get a single core and wait to upgrade until the dual core is cheaper. Two years later the dual core has dropped 50% and you go for it ...... :eek: ...... and you end up paying (for both processors combined) as much as the dual core would have set you back when it was "new ". My conclusion is that an "upgrade strategy" will not save any money and if you can increase the initial budget, that's the best option and ...... :cool: ...... you will enjoy the dual core for the full "life expectancy" of the computer and not half of it.

    Now, I will stop thinking in writing!

    Christer
     
    Last edited: 2006/01/30
    Christer,
    #9
  11. 2006/01/30
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    Hawk22, checked your last post. You ask specifically about motherboard models. I suggest to put the motherboard model and "review" into a Google search.

    I also suggest not getting the "latest" motherboard...wait to see if there are any teething problems with that motherboard. Still, see if you can get those attributes you are looking for. That is the most important point.

    Matt
     
    mattman,
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  12. 2006/01/30
    hawk22

    hawk22 Geek Member Thread Starter

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    Thanks Guy's, good to read your thoughts here. Christer I have read in an other Tread were you mentioned that you have recently build 2 systems based on the
    Gigabite K8N based boards, you might just be familiar with the board that I have enquired about the Gigabyte "GV- K8N51PVMT-9 it uses the Geforce 6150 chip with Integrated Graphics and sound, a PCI Express Card can be added if needed. PC World and HardwareZone give it good Ratings 3.5 out of 5 Stars.
    My early intensions would be to use a AMD 939 3500 CPU.
    Your further comments are very much appreciated.
    hawk22
     
    hawk22,
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  13. 2006/01/30
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff

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    hawk22,
    I have no first hand experience with the GA-K8N51PVMT-9. I had a quick look at it and my only caveat is the limited expansion possibilities. Micro-ATX have only a few ports for add-on cards but if you are sure that you won't need more than is offered ...... :cool: ...... you can get a small tower (unless you need the space for more than three drives) and build a small system. The only draw back with a small tower is that case fans may be limited to a front intake fan. My experience is that a rear exhaust fan does the job much better.

    In addition to the two builds (one on 754 and the other on 939) discussed in the other thread, I have refurbished an Intel based system. The owner wanted USB 2.0, AGP 8x and 800 MHz FSB which the current Asus board didn't have. (The Asus board was some kind of transition model with slots for both SDRAM and DDR modules and 533 MHz FSB.)

    I recommended the GA-8IPE1000-G which could be had at a reasonable price. He reused the AGP 8x card, bought 2x512MB PC3200 but had to put the 3.0 GHz P4HT on hold until after Christmas (and no, he didn't get lucky). He still runs the old 2.0 GHz Celeron but in a few weeks he will get his P4.

    All three users have been satisfied with the respective result, the boards run stable and drivers were easy to install (more or less automatic using the provided CD).

    In general terms, I recommend Gigabyte and since you found a good review of that specific motherboard, I would go for it. About availability, my experience here in Sweden is that it varies over time. The web shops buy what they can get at a good price. A few weeks wait may make a difference.

    About the Athlon 64 3500+ (2.2 GHz, 512 kB) that processor seems to be at the sweet spot when it comes to "bang for the bucks ". However, the 3700+ (2.2 GHz, 1 MB) is only slightly more expensive (in Sweden).

    Christer
     
    Last edited: 2006/01/30
    Christer,
    #12
  14. 2006/01/30
    Rockster2U

    Rockster2U Geek Member

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    Swore I wouldn't do this again but here goes ....... an opinion.

    Most bang for the buck can usually be had by staying one generation behind the "latest and greatest ". Thats where hardware that is still current is being discounted becaused its approaching the mature stage of its product lifecycle. I think all here would not relate that to socket 462 vs 939 but might consider 754 vs 939 as an appropriate example even though 754 itself is now a couple of generations removed.

    If you are planning on going 939 (good choice in this author's opinion) the 3700+ San Diego is your best cost/benefit choice. You should also look at the non- SLI MSI Neo boards for value, performance and ease of setup.

    ;)
     
    Rockster2U,
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  15. 2006/01/30
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff

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    Rockster2U,
    I agree with your statement that money can be saved by settling for "one generation behind ".

    One of the systems I built on Gigabyte motherboards was based on Socket 754 to keep performance up at the expense of upgradability. The other was based on Socket 939 because the user wanted the possibility to upgrade to dual core.

    Christer
     
    Christer,
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  16. 2006/01/31
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    Christer, you bring up some good points.
    SLI...is it just for gamers or will we all need to purchase two graphics cards in the future?
    mmmm....
    Matt
    Edit: Maybe the GPU manufacturers will consider "dual core ". Why do two graphics cards work at a lot better than one? Two only improve the resolution in games from what I see.
     
    Last edited: 2006/01/31
    mattman,
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  17. 2006/01/31
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff

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    Matt,
    I have not seen too many reviews and comparisons but my conclusion is that SLI is for those who aren't satisfied with the best.

    If you get two "low range" graphics cards and go SLI, the cost and performance would be close to that of a single "medium range" graphics card.

    If you get two "medium range" ...... :p ...... well, you understand where I'm going with this ...... :cool: ...... when "top notch super high range" is not good enough ...... :rolleyes: ...... take two and ruin yourself!

    Christer
     
    Christer,
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  18. 2006/01/31
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff

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    I forgot:

    Going with PCI express graphics is not the same as going SLI. PCI express is the way to go with a new system (I think) but SLI is optional and only the most extreme users will benefit from it.

    Christer
     
    Christer,
    #17
  19. 2006/01/31
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    Good logic (as usual) Christer :)

    If I was more game oriented I might consider SLI. OK, I would start with a single medium range graphics card, hoping to save for a second card later and maybe the price will have dropped. If I leave it too long or get a card that is at the end of it's marketing lifespan there may be no more around...go to Ebay I suppose.
    OR
    I get my second graphics card only to find that the graphics manufacturers release a model that is better and cheaper than the two I already have.

    SLI was tried in the past and did not take off. I will be interested to see how it goes this time. (ATI has jumped on the bandwagon and there seems to be plenty of SLI motherboards on the market).

    Matt
     
    mattman,
    #18
  20. 2006/02/03
    hawk22

    hawk22 Geek Member Thread Starter

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    Hi, I have done more research on non SLI boards including the MSI, but for some reason most boards that come with the Ge Force 6150 chip are all Micro ATX with only 2 PCI slots + the PCI Express slot.
    I did however come across the" FOXCONN" 6150K8MA-8EKRS Board with some pretty good review and this one has 3 PCI slots plus PCI Express.
    However I have just been reading a article regarding AMD and it reports that AMD have announced that Socket 939 is shortly a thing of the past as it will be replaced by the NEW M2 Socket that will replace all other AMD Sockets.
    Could this mean that if I change to 939 now I would be upgrading to a redundant Format.
    Hawk22
     
    hawk22,
    #19
  21. 2006/02/03
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff

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    hawk22,
    if you wait for the socket that will have no successor ...... ;) ...... be prepared for a long wait. I too have heard about "the next AMD socket" but as far as I know, it has not yet been released.

    A lot of people take upgradability in consideration but very few people actually upgrade their system. Socket 939 will be around for a few more years and going with "the next AMD socket" will definitely carry a price premium.

    Personally, since my budget is limited, I wouldn't wait ...... :cool: ...... but go 939 with dual-core.

    Christer
     
    Christer,
    #20
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