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Cooling the case!

Discussion in 'PC Hardware' started by alboy, 2005/05/26.

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  1. 2005/05/26
    alboy

    alboy Well-Known Member Thread Starter

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    The temps are a bit high for my cpu at the moment 72'c Amd Athlon 3400
    The only case fan is a 80mm fan at the rear blowing in to the case,
    The case has slots approx 2" high along the bottom left hand side panel front to rear and a few holes in the lower front panel.
    Would it help if i revesed the direction of the rear fan to blow out at the back and mounted a fan towards the front on the side panel blowing in to the case, any advice or other suggestions to cool the case would be welcome.
     
    Last edited: 2005/05/26
  2. 2005/05/26
    Sheograth

    Sheograth Inactive

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    Consider investing in a new Heatsink/Fan. That has the most effect on CPU temperature. The Zalman CNPS 7000 and 7700 are both very good, as are the Thermalright XP120 and XP90C. (Those are by no means the only good ones, just a couple examples).

    As for the case airflow, definitely reverse the rear fan and add an intake fan somewhere else. If you are worried about noise, you can use a high-flow low speed 120mm fan. If I were you I would modify the case with a dremmel or similar cutting tool to mount a fan professionally. But if there are openings that air can easily be drawn through, by all means put a fan there.
     

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  4. 2005/05/26
    Arie

    Arie Administrator Administrator Staff

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    I was able to drop my case temp. by a number of Deg. by making a hole at the TOP of the case, and fixing a 80mm fan inside, blowing air out.

    It makes sense: hot air rises, so the best way is to get it out from the top IMHO :D
     
    Arie,
    #3
  5. 2005/05/26
    r.leale Lifetime Subscription

    r.leale Well-Known Member

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    Hi Alboy,

    As well as reversing the original fan so that it extracts, and fitting an intake fan, check how the hole for the extractor is guarded. It will either be by a wire grill or a series of holes drilled in the sheet metal. My case had two fans, both mounted behind holes drilled like a sieve or colander, and the CPU, an Athlon XP 3200 was running at 53/55°C. I estimated that the fan intakes and exits were obstructed to the extent of at least 60% by unnecessary sheet metal, so I opened up the holes to the full diameters of the fans, and fitted wire grills.
    The changes were immediate - the fans are quieter, and my CPU runs at 40/45°C.
    I like Arie's idea too! I fitted another fan, before I did the above work, but on the side panel, blowing directly onto the graphics card and the CPU heat sink.

    Roger ;)
     
  6. 2005/05/27
    alboy

    alboy Well-Known Member Thread Starter

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    Many thanks for all the replies i have reversed the rear fan and that has dropped the temps as follows
    CPu 65-69 'C
    Motherboard 38'C
    Seagate drives 36'C
    I intend to fit a fan in the top of the case as soon as possible (many thanks Arie for the suggestion) will let you know how i get on

    Alboy
     
  7. 2005/05/28
    alboy

    alboy Well-Known Member Thread Starter

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    Update

    I have fitted an 80mm fan in the front blowing into the case and an 80mm fan midway in the top of the case approx blowing out .
    the results are as follows
    After 5hrs use in an ambient temp of 26.9'c
    ( startup temp in brackets )

    motherboard 41'c ( 35 )
    CPU 68'c ( 66 ) maximum temp ever recorded was 77'c !!!!!
    seagate hd1 43'c ( 31 ) max temp ever recorded 66'c
    seagate hd2 39'c ( 30 ) max temp ever recorded 64'c

    The temperatures seem a lot more stable but i think i will eventually fit a new cooler to the Cpu but for the moment i am quite happy with the results considering the modest outlay approx £12 ( $22 )

    many thanks for all replies
     
    Last edited: 2005/05/28
  8. 2005/05/28
    bobmc32

    bobmc32 Well-Known Member

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    alboy - Your original temps were quite high it seems to me! And even the ending temps are still high IMO. I remounted my CPU to my mobo with new temperature grease (not silver) and the temps on my machine dropped dramatically. A good mate with good quality temp grease is the most helpful I think. Of course the outflow at the back and inflow at the front and side (if applicable) is important also. (I have a hot AMD CPU btw and at 100% utilization it is running at 111F [44C] at the moment) Of course I speak in AMD 1.2GB Thunderbird terms and not in your newer CPU terms.
     
  9. 2005/05/29
    alboy

    alboy Well-Known Member Thread Starter

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    May be a faulty reading ???

    I have found This thread on the AMD website forum and it seems to suggest that the readings for my cpu may be wrong i have not flashed my Bios with an update as suggested.
    I have had no stability problems to date and no unexpected shutdowns.
     
  10. 2005/05/29
    r.leale Lifetime Subscription

    r.leale Well-Known Member

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    Hi Alboy,
    I agree with BobMC here.
    Your mobo temp is twice that of mine, at roughly the same ambient temps, and to run a CPU at 68°C when the max allowed (according to AMD) is 70°C, seems a bit risky to me. Did you install the CPU yourself? Is it an AMD supplied heat sink? Did you notice in the forum you linked to about the Athlon 64's that in at least one case there was a problem with the CPU auto-protect?
    I am running an older Athlon 3200, which started quite hot, but removing the AMD thermal transfer pad, and re-installing the heat sink using Arctic Silver lowered the CPU temp by 8°C over a period of about 7 days - approx 7 shut-downs and re-boots.

    Roger
     
  11. 2005/05/29
    alboy

    alboy Well-Known Member Thread Starter

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    It had the Akasa AK-855 CPU cooler fitted by the manufacturer from new info Here It uses a silver based thermal grease, info and review Here as you will see it appears to work okay.
    I still think that the readings are wrong as MSI did offer a Bios update last August to correct inaccurate readings by the AMI Bios fitted to my motherboard .
    I am just to nervous to try it.

    Motherboard info given by Everest as follows

    Motherboard ID... 62-0903-009999-00101111-040201-VIA_K8$1XXXX000_A6741VMS V1.0B7 090303

    Motherboard Name...... MSI K8TM-ILSR (MS-6741)

    The update is listed with an explanation Here it is the version 1.4
     
    Last edited: 2005/05/29
  12. 2005/05/29
    jaylach

    jaylach Inactive

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    Just a thought on fan cooling that I thought might be interesting. If there is anything wrong with the logic I would appreciate it being pointed out. :)

    It has always been my thought that you will have a much cleaner and fuzzy free interior of your case if you run both intake and exaust fans on the case. The thing is to have the intake fans push more air than the exaust fans. This causes a positive pressure within the case causing air to be pushed out of 'cracks' in the case rather than being pulled in. This causes dust and such to NOT be pulled in to the case. I have also found that used 'Bounce fabric softener sheets' make exelent filters for the intake fans.
     
  13. 2005/05/29
    bobmc32

    bobmc32 Well-Known Member

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    jaylach - Bounce sounds good. I have two big hairy shedding dogs that luv to nest under my feet and pretty close to the computer intakes. I currently am using window A/C filter material for an intake filter. Makes a world of difference. Last time I did a housecleaning I had to use heroic methods to clean out my heatsink fins to get the gunk, cigarette tar and dog hair cleaned out but did get it done.

    alboy - I assume you have checked the temp from the BIOS? I ask cause I have a Via Hardware monitor but it coincides pretty much with BIOS temps and from posts wasn't sure where the temp figures were coming from.
     
  14. 2005/05/30
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    alboy, you don't seem like the type of person that would do a BIOS flash carelessly. Those are the types that should not do it.

    BIOS flashes should not be done without a reason. This thread proves you have a reason.

    MSI will have good instructions for how to do it. Read about it at the website, there should also be instructions with the download.

    The main problem is if the flash is stopped or stalled.

    Follow the instructions and the warnings and you should be fine :)
    Maybe no more worries about temps :cool:

    Matt
    EDIT: Don't do the "Live update" unless you are confident that your Windows system is working perfectly. Do the boot disk method to be on the safe side. EDIT2 That's my warning! :)
     
    Last edited: 2005/05/30
  15. 2005/05/30
    alboy

    alboy Well-Known Member Thread Starter

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    bobmc32
    I have tried comparing the Bios and Everest readings and they are both about the same but i assume that Everest gets it's cpu temp readings through the motherboard/Bios so any faulty readings would be sourced via the motherboard which i believe is were the problem lies.
    I am still rather nervous about flashing the Bios because of the risks of it going wrong ,I know I'm just being a wimp but as there is no apparent problems at the moment i will probably just leave it for now and continue to try improvements to the case ventilation and possibly the CPU cooling fan although room around it is very limited and most of the better coolers seem to need plenty of space.
    many thanks for all replies and i will post back with any updates worth a mention.
    alboy
     
  16. 2005/05/30
    r.leale Lifetime Subscription

    r.leale Well-Known Member

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    Hi Jaylach,
    Sorry to disagree, but speaking from an engineering standpoint, a positive case pressure for a PC is not necessarily a good idea. Partly because good air cooling demands a good airflow, ie sufficient air passing over the items to be cooled. Slowing this flow down will reduce the cooling effect. Also, a positive pressure in the case will mean that the air entering will immediately slow down, and probably deposit all the polluants it carries.
    From choice I would go for a large, unrestricted airflow through the case, with an effective dust filter on the intake(s).
    Just my two pence worth.

    Roger :rolleyes:
     
  17. 2005/05/30
    r.leale Lifetime Subscription

    r.leale Well-Known Member

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    Hi Alboy,

    Yes, it's me again! Not nit picking, but I have serious doubts about the thermal compound used for your CPU. The figures quoted for the thermal transfer for two such compounds are:
    Akasa - - 9.2428 W/m°C (As shown in the linked revue)
    Arctic Silver - >350,000 W/m°C

    Also, from personal experience,I know that Arctic Silver is very effective, and dropped my CPU temp by 8°C over several re-boots.
    Try a visit to OC Workbench where all the experts? pose their questions on mobo's and processors.

    Roger
     
  18. 2005/05/30
    Geri Lifetime Subscription

    Geri Inactive Alumni

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    Can someone point me to where the readings are located.
    I'd like to check mine.
    Thanks
    Geri
     
  19. 2005/05/30
    bobmc32

    bobmc32 Well-Known Member

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    Geri -There is usually a selection in the BIOS titled "Environment" or the like (In mine it's titled PC Health) and it will show the CPU and case temps. Can you get into your BIOS? Upon startup press the delete key when you see the term "Press delete to enter .........." and it should take you into the BIOS.
     
    Last edited: 2005/05/30
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