Using External Hard Drive for image backup?

Does your Effective Permissions for "Users" look like this?

http://users.adelphia.net/~abraxas/Images/Capture.jpg

I agree that it must be a permissions thing. It was the words "read-only" and "restricted" that got me looking into this in the first place and not just dismissing YOU as a lunatic!

The drives are protected for sure, but not that well. After all, anyone with a floppy and the free version of NTFSDOS can read any file on the drive. And there are NTFS drivers all over the net, most read-only, but a few that allow writing.

 

No, I'm running XP Home and you have Pro there. I don't use any policy restrictions since I don't have any user to restrict. "It is good to be the king." (credit due M. Brooks, et al) You used the term lunatic and that always reminds me of Mel.

 

OK. That does make a difference. You know probably that you have access to these security settings in Safe Mode in Home, and also if you have installed the Intel Security Configuration Manager.

We can pursue this if you want, or drop it if you don't really care about saving to NTFS. Either way, I'm putting together another machine from spare parts and the first thing I'll do now is test out this idea and let you know what I discover. I even have an unused copy of Home that I can try.

 

One parting shot before I head for the "Goose hair. "

If you have been doing what you say, then you have managed to crack the security of the XP system and it would be possible to pull individual files from the image without having to know any passwords, if such were being used.

That has far reaching implications as I'm sure you understand.

Good night.

edit, typing at same time, yes, I'll be interested in what you find out and I'll also check some too.

 

But so can NTFSDOS. It's free and you can copy any file off from an NTFS volume with a floppy. I don't think I really "cracked" very much . I made a boot floppy with USB drivers and a small burner so I can even burn files to an external CD-RW from the floppy. So it's not really a breakthrough.

Thanks for pointing out all this information to me. It's something for me to keep in mind when I recommend Acronis to people.

 

I have ntfsdos also and I'll see what it can do. I suspect it may have some limits but I have never really tried to use it much. I have the full version so it'll be interesting to see.

I would be surprised if XP security was that easy to breach.

 

NTFSDOS Pro is just like the old DOS boot disks. You can read and write at will. You'll be surprized. The other day I came across a method on the net for changing the domain administrator's password from any machine in the domain. Security of Windows is only tight to other Windows users. Linux mounts NTFS drives like they were FAT32.

Have fun and thank you for an interesting and enlightening discussion..

 

Amen to that. I hope I'm not breaking any forum rule here but I just booted the NTFSDOS floppies and I can have anything on the XP NTFS partition that I choose. Now I suppose encryption would render some of it unusable but I don't use that so can't be sure.

That should make for a great data recovery method from an unbootable system.

 

Not sure what rule you would be referring to, but using legal software and talking about it is not anything bad.

Certainly, anyone who has used NTFSDOS is aware of its abilities and, yes, it does make for a pretty good recovery method, especially if you can find a method of transferring the larger files off the machine.

Personally, I prefer Windows PE (or Knoppix, or Mandrake "Move "). I just boot into XP from the CD, get the familiar XP desktop, and then transfer files to another device, send them over the network, or burn them to CD, all from an operating system that is running from the CD in parallel to the XP installed on the machine. And the machine does not even have to be bootable from its own hard drive since PE runs perfectly well from the CD even if no hard drives are connected to the machine. It is rather nice to surf the net from an OS that is read-only----adware and viruses disappear when you turn off the machine.

The encryption of NTFS is another matter. It is true "encryption ", with keys and everything, so those files are not any more accessible through NTFSDOS or Linux than they are through Windows. I have a program, the only one I have ever seen, that purports to be able to "de-encrypt" NTFS-encrypted files. It is a theoretical possibility, though I have never tried it. I suspect that it may take some time for this program to crack the encryption. Here's the program if you want to take a look:

http://www.elcomsoft.com/aefsdr.html

They make it sound like a piece of cake, but I suspect it is not or there would be more software of that type available due to supply and demand.

 

It's an IDE. So, kindly start me off with a recipe to do the backup job. Thanks.

 

What kind of imaging software are you running? Really all you have to do, providing you have the external drive installed and recognized, is start the imaging program and follow the screen directions. I like Acronis True image since I consider it the most user friendly of the bunch. It's very versatile as well, with the exception of the glitch we have been discussing.

Your turn...

 

Hi All: Reading this post aroused my curiosity since I have used Acronis True Image in the past but currently it is uninstalled.

So I booted from the Acronis start up disc (CD) that I had previously created, and after clicking through a bunch of settings was able to start an image to a USB hard drive. No error messages other than it couldn't see the drives on the IDE channels. Not unusual on this box because I boot from the RAID controller. But it did see the RAID boot drive and proceeded to copy it.

This was late last night after reading your posts, and Acronis informed me that the image would take 2 hours.

I decided that I'd sleep through it and went to bed.

When I woke this morning Acronis reported that it had successfully imaged the boot drive to the USB hard drive.

Removed the CD and rebooted.

That's when all kinds of things started to go wrong.

1. BHO Cop reported new home page wanted to load. Since it appeared to be my regular home page, I gave permission.
2. Norton reported could not load AV correctly and advised reinstall, live update failed.
3. Network connection icon failed to load. Went to control panel, network connections, page was blank. Dial up, DSL and 1394 entries gone.
4. DU Meter reported network traffic, origin unknown to me.
5. USB hard drive that had received image from Acronis no longer available in My Computer.
6. Received message from Windows Update that updates were available. Checked this, they were updates that had been installed last week.
7. Internet Explorer, instead of loading when clicked presented me with a
page of code.
8. System restore reported no restore points available.
9. Event Viewer, System reports failure in loading of programs that had been uninstalled, some uninstalled weeks ago.
10. Unplugged, replugged USB drive, no reaction from Windows.
11. Weather Bug (desktop weather) tried to load updates that had been installed some time ago. It was not supposed to be starting but it did.
12. Taskbar Icons rearranged with some missing from quick launch.

What a mess, so Drive Image 8 to the rescue!

35 minutes later up and running with no errors. USB drive back in My Computer and contains Acronis 19GB .tib file.

Now the question: What the heck (would use a stronger word if Arie would let me) happened?

The only thing I could think of is that I did not disable my DSL line before starting Acronis, and while I was sleeping, or while Acronis was running, apparently with no protection running, some Hijack program or virus got me. I just hope that none of my confidential data was compromised.

Of course I will delete that .tib file and not even try to see if it is valid. I am tempted to try this again tonight with DSL line disabled and see if results are different. Any thoughts on this?

Martin

 

I can't buy the DSL invasion as being possible. Since you're working off the boot CD and in a command mode with no drivers other than those for Acronis loaded it just wouldn't be possible. I don't see how the DSL modem would be able to contact the system. I could believe it if you started the process from within Windows and it reboot to Windows upon completion, but that wasn't the case that you reported.

I think it more likely that the process has caused your system to grab the last known good copy of the registry for some unknown reason (edit-maybe due to a time clock error incurred from running in command mode so long??) and that had the effect of setting you back before the updates were installed. That's just a wild guess though...can't think of any other rational excuse for this.

You must be happy that you had a current DI image.

 

I don't know if you could tell by examining it, but you could mount the Acronis image as a virtual drive and explore its contents. It sure would be interesting to know whether the image also contains the changes you mentioned or whether something happened after the image was created.

But I agree that surferdude2's explanation is the most likely. However, if Acronis installs some primitive network support (and I don't remember if it does) in order to image drives to a network location, it is possible that your DSL line was open during the process.

I'll be making an image later today (to my second, NTFS drive ) and I'll look around while I'm doing it.

surferdude2:
Since I do not believe that imaging to NTFS drives is beyond the capabilities of the coders at Acronis, I think it is far more likely that the problem is along the lines of their negotiations with Microsoft over the use of NTFS drivers for the file system. The only drivers I am aware of for the Windows platform come from MS, and Acronis no doubt needs to license them, just as Sysinternals did for NTFSDOS.

Since writing to NTFS volumes is a very desirable thing, if MS had not cornered the market, apps with write access to NTFS volumes would be a lot more available than they are now. I suspect lawyers appear from nowhere when someone tries to sell something of this sort.

 

Yeah man, if I hadn't had that image (made at 5:45 pm same day ) I would have been S.O.L. Especially since all restore points had been wiped. I guess I could have fixed it eventually, but what a job that would have been.

So, Dude, you don't think much of trying it again tonight with DSL line out? Even if it had grabbed an old copy of the registry, how did it insert it into my C Boot drive and how would it have disabled or corrupted Norton AV. I know stranger things have happened, but why would the USB drive disappear? Drivers for that go back to original install.

I know you guys are admirers of Acronis, but the reason it was uninstalled here is because of repeated failures of one kind or another. I think it has trouble coping with this machine setup and RAID boot. Like I said, the program when started from CD cannot see IDE drives. I've also had failures with scheduled backups and Acronis Secure Zone. So, I'll stick with Drive Image. I also gave up on GoBack Deluxe, it never worked when I really needed it, always reporting no backups because of excess HDD activity. Besides, it uses an awful lot of space. And Acronis, with scheduled incremental backups reached to 55GB in Secure Zone, so I had to dump older backups to make room, and the only way to do this is uninstall and reinstall.

I'm about to go to town, sounds like a good time to fire up drive image again!

You Take Care

Martin

 

Personally, I'd be interesed in your results with the DSL disconnected.

What version of Acronis do you have? Like most apps, Acronis has greatly improved things from one version to the next as a result of competition in the last couple yeras.

 

I totally agree.

There are flaws in all of them, that's why I have Ghost, True Image, Drive Image, and Instant recovery, along with NTFSDOS and a batch file using XXCOPY with the /clone switch. I'm not really that obsessed with backups or backup software and methods but it does make for rainy day fun and now for interesting conversation.

I also would like to see how it goes with DSL disabled Martin.

 

Probably the bad clock explanation makes the most sense, as I had to sync it and gain back 4 hours. Don't know if loss of 4 hours could cause all that weirdness though. Of course, Johanna would tell you it is just Catastrophy asserting herself.

The version of Acronis I was running was version 8. Install file version is 8.0.0.774. Cant find build as it is not installed. When it was working, I could not use the "Boot from Acronis Secure Zone" (was F11 on boot?) feature as it would not work on this machine setup. Tech support there said they would try to fix that in next iteration.

In order to mount the current .tib folder as a virtual drive, I would have to reinstall TI. Unless you know some other way? I'm reluctant to re-install it right now.

The only reason I did the attempted image was to see if Abraxas had some kind of special privilege not granted to Surferdude2 and the rest of us mortals.
Apparently not and maybe Surferdude2 is the only one who is shut out.

Take care

Martin

 

Well now...in as much as Acronis practically promises in their FAQ's that you can't do that, I feel somewhat compelled to report you two for illegal activity. The least I can do is demand an immediate retraction of their information so that it will enable me to have the same features as you guys. I suppose I would have to hold my boot CD up to the monitor and show it the retraction. Whatta ya think?

Just another one of the mysteries of these one-eyed monsters. Mine resides in the bedroom and I'm sometimes afraid to close my eyes for fear of being deleted while I sleep. I think it's also responsible for a measure of the corruption I have in my memory at times.

I'm so steamed over this that I'm going to give it another shot just to see if it has maybe changed its mind. I have the boot CD laying on the desk so it can see these posts - that should help too.

 

I'm not sure how much the German authorities can actually do to me, but if it makes you feel better.... ;-)

In any case, it would be nice to find out that all those people I recommended the NTFS backup of Acronis to were not just humoring me and secretly thinking that I was relatively harmless if mistaken.

And I'd also like some reassurance that I could actually reinstall without losing the ability to make backups to my second drive. I have been defending and recommending Acronis for some time completely unaware of this (major---if it exists) flaw in its abilities.

Curious now. But I still think it has to do with permissions. Perhaps surferdude2 could try changing the user's permissions?

But, there is one very interesting difference here: the 2 people who have been able to create an image do not have Acronis installed in Windows.