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Old 5th January 2010   #31
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hey barry don't change the cas setting the settings you want are 2.5 - 3 - 3 - 7 CL 1

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Old 6th January 2010   #32
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G'Day Barry,

Do your motherboard BIOS and driver update from the Manufacturers site driver download!

Some of these utilities like the Everest: / CrucialScan.exe utilities is not what I would use. I had a look at it and all they are interested in is selling RAM, whereas on my system they recommended 4 x 2Gb and the Manufacturer ASUS said 4 x 1GB - I trust the Manufacturer in preference after all they made the MoBo.

However ther is no need to change anything in or for the Updating procedure from MSI.

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Last edited by pcbugfixer; 6th January 2010 at 03:49.
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Old 6th January 2010   #33
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Athlonite –
“you'll need to set the memory bus from 166MHz to 200MHz if you can” The Bios won’t allow that to be changed.

“also the Cas Latency or CR should be set to 1 instead of 2”
“don't change the cas setting the settings you want are 2.5 - 3 - 3 - 7 CL 1”
I’m not following exactly what you are recommending that I change to 1.

pcbugfixer –
I know that I have the KT4V-L (601-6712-050). I don’t remember how to verify that the version is 1.1, but could check that if you let me know how.

I downloaded 6712v54.zip and boot98.exe. I assume that you want me to put the boot98 onto a floppy and expand the zip file onto the same file. After that, I assume that you want me to restart the computer and boot it from that floppy, which will flash the BIOS to the new version. Please let me know if I have this correct.

I supposedly have a 56K modem, though I am lucky to get 24-28Kbps out of it.

My 1GB and 512MB sticks are all double-sided modules, and all are PC3200. I can remove the 512MB module, if that would be recommended. The 1GB ones are Kingston KVR400AK2/2GR, while the 512MB one is Mushkin 991093.

Here is the present BIOS information:
American Megatrends Released: 07/29/2003
AMIBIOS A6712VMS V1.9 071903
32-0729-009999-00101111-040201-VIA_K7-1AARK204
on BIOS page: AMIBIOS NEW SETUP UTILITY – VERSION 3.31a

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Old 6th January 2010   #34
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Originally Posted by Barry View Post
pcbugfixer –
I know that I have the KT4V-L (601-6712-050). I don’t remember how to verify that the version is 1.1, but could check that if you let me know how.
Simply lift the cover on the case after you have turnet the PC off, and look at the Mobo, it will have the Model and Rev printed on it in white.

Quote:
I downloaded 6712v54.zip and boot98.exe. I assume that you want me to put the boot98 onto a floppy and expand the zip file onto the same file. After that, I assume that you want me to restart the computer and boot it from that floppy, which will flash the BIOS to the new version. Please let me know if I have this correct.
Read the last comment before you do this, as I suspect you have given me the wrong MoBo specs, or used the wrong drivers in the past.
Our action is dependent on the above verification of the printed ID's on the MoBo.

If we have the correct MoBo, Yes, just format the FDD 1st to ensure it is usable and has no errors, then copy the boot files and the flash files on it, read the command parameters usually in the files from the downloaded BIOS zip file that you expanded. Obviously do not copy the zip files only the extracted or expanded files otherwise they will not fit on the FDD.
However if the MoBo has been incorrectly Flashed in the past, I will need to get MSI to verivy my procedure (I will just phone my MSI contact to do this here in Australia)

Quote:
I supposedly have a 56K modem, though I am lucky to get 24-28Kbps out of it.
There are tweakers for this, remind me later in a PM to send you the download and instructions for this.

Quote:
My 1GB and 512MB sticks are all double-sided modules, and all are PC3200. I can remove the 512MB module, if that would be recommended. The 1GB ones are Kingston KVR400AK2/2GR, while the 512MB one is Mushkin 991093.
The modules should in preference be all the same speed i.e. DDR400 and the same size, however if they are the same speed then they can be mixed sizes, however do not mix single sided with double sided, as this in most instances creates problems.

Quote:
Here is the present BIOS information:
American Megatrends Released: 07/29/2003
AMIBIOS A6712VMS V1.9 071903
32-0729-009999-00101111-040201-VIA_K7-1AARK204
on BIOS page: AMIBIOS NEW SETUP UTILITY – VERSION 3.31a
The V1.9 071903 indicates the the BIOS is dated 19 July 2003 and is version 1.9 which I cannot see in the BIOS list for the MoBo latest 5.4 BIOS Flash listing ??

However the KT4V MoBo does list a BIOS v1.9 has it listed as at 29 July 2003 and I suspect (previously indicated) that you do not have a KT4V-L MoBo but the KT4V MoBo or you did in the past use the wrong Flash and Drivers having used the KT4V on a KT4V-L MoBo - I hope you can follow this.

After you check the Model and Revision number on the MoBo, we may need to re-check this, to ensure we have the correct Flash for the Mobo.

Easy Check - The KT4V-L has a LAN port (network RJ45 adapter) on the MoBo, the KT3V does not.

pcbugfixer


Last edited by pcbugfixer; 6th January 2010 at 06:05. Reason: typo and addition Easy Check
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Old 6th January 2010   #35
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Barry,

I figured it was time to jump back in here and make a couple of comments.

Barry, some of the guidance you are getting needs to be tempered with caution, good judgement and common sense.

On balence, I have no problem with the direction pcbugfixer is taking you and I am in total agreement with his interest in getting your BIOS programmed correctly and doing it from a floppy with the proper boot files, a flashing utility and the right BIN files. Ditto with comments regarding Everest, Belarc or SIW to determine board and revision # as opposed to reading this right off the board itself. Some members may tell you not to flash, but I've never subscribed to this philosophy unless there is a total neophyte on the receiving end. Not to worry, you don't fit that criteria.

Back to the "Go Slow Guidance". From some of the earlier posts in this thread, it is obvious that Athlonite has some good socket 462 knowledge but part of that learning curve includes an understanding one's own limitations. I'm enclosing a couple of real basic links below to politely clarify a couple of things about memory. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_timings and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAS_latency are pretty fundamental. For a detailed read that will humble any self proclaimed expert, google Adrian's Rojak Pot (old name but quicker to find).

There is considerable confusion and misinformation being posted as it relates to CAS (Column Address Strobe) or CL (commonly refered to as CAS Latency). Note: this is but one of four common memory timings which include:
CAS
TRCD (RAS to CAS delay)
TRP (RAS Precharge)
TRAS (Active to Precharge)

A reference has also been made to CAS 1, which is incorrect. I believe that Athlonite really meant to refer to the Command Rate which would be expressed as either a T1 or T2 timing. Note: one cannot achieve a T1 Command Rate with more than two modules present.

Before anyone sells Athlonite down the river, he has been right on the money with his assessment of what to expect with my earlier recommendation to Barry of By Speed or Auto when first setting up memory in the BIOS. (I wanted to avoid the long confusing explanation and simply run nice safe relaxed stepped down DDR 333 synchronous timings for starters) I must confess, I don't know this particular motherboard and as such, I don't know how much "adjustment" can be made to the memory timings, however, most readers will find it difficult to achieve a "noticeable difference" in system performance - thus my emphasis on stability. For those who are unaware, Barry has a very good benchmarking and torture testing utility written by Jouni Vuorio which will permit him to tweak his memory (dependent upon Mobo sophistication). I think that board will run in an asynchronis mode and permit DDR 400 memory settings but I'm not sure. It may even run his CPU (2500+ Barton) at 2x200 or 400MHz but again, I don't know that board and whether or not Barry has a pre or post week 39 production CPU. (No, I'm not interested in taking Barry down that path and yes, he's been there with his son's machine and is fully capable of handling all that and more)

I'm not trying to dis anyone here or trash their valuable contributions to this thread, I just want to urge Barry to proceed with caution and good judgement. With that, I'll apologize if I've offended anyone and I'll shut up and let Barry quarterback his own thread.


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Old 6th January 2010   #36
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Thanks for all the input and your patience. I am in no hurry, preferring to have a well-functioning system rather than a rush job, though tweaks are nice, if they speed up the computer while maintaining the stability.
I must admit that I was getting a bit frustrated looking for the version number on this board. I spent a lot of time looking at all the little lettering, only to discover that it is printed in large lettering between the PCI slots. Now, I guess I'm just confused. The original box and manual states KT4V-L (601-6712-0050) MS-6712 V1.X ATX, while the board states KT4V MS-6712 VER:10A. To top it off, there is a LAN receptacle, which the manual describes as a VIA VT6103 LAN controller. AMI BIOS is listed as an approved BIOS in the owner's manual. The BIOS is the original. I have never flashed the BIOS on this mobo. If the serial number would help, I could provide that.
Thanks for the help.

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Old 6th January 2010   #37
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G'DAy Barry,

Yes please, post the serial Number.

I suspect that you have a special or release of the motherboard that was made for a Brand Named PC ? - what is the Manufacturers Name of the PC you purchased ?

The Supplier mixed up the boxes ?

As soon as you post this info I will phone MSI for clarification of the MoBo

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Last edited by pcbugfixer; 6th January 2010 at 21:32.
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Old 6th January 2010   #38
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Here is the information listed on the box:
Made in China Part No.G11-CB00202
Bar Code: 8 16909 00286 7
P/N: 6712-050
S/N: K0305013422
KT4V-L (601-6712-050)
K7, KT400, 5.1ch S/W Audio, LAN, D-Bracket2

On the mobo is a bar code sticker with the number 3520018655

I bought it from PC Supply Source in Somerset, NJ 08873 on July 30, 2003 FOR $74.00. The sales receipt says:
MB6-MSI-B671250 --- BOX MSI KT4V-L/KT400/ATX/AUD/8X AGP/LAN
S/N: 2110539891, MFG: k0305013422

Now, that's a lot of numbers. I hope you can make heads or tails of it all. I built this computer myself from components, so if the board was switched, I have no idea if it was done in China or in New Jersey.

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Old 6th January 2010   #39
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G'Day Barry,

Recommend you do nothing until we have cleared up the ID designation for the MoBo you have !!

Will try to contact MSI to-day.

pcbugfixer

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Old 7th January 2010   #40
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Update,

The case has been forwarded to MSI Head Office - FAE (Field Application Engineers) Department.

Waiting for reply.
pcbugfixer

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Old 7th January 2010   #41
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G'Day Barry,

I have received 2 replies, 1 from MSI Australia and 1 from MSI HO Taiwan.

The instructions to me seemed contradictory so I sent a further email to clarify the actions to be taken and the BIOS and drivers to use.

Quote:
Dear Roger,

From the information I found here,
MS6714 == have the marketing name as KT4V-L , L mean LAN or network connector
But the PCB print didn’t show the word . (In short, if you MB have LAN then it’s KT74V-L)

For this MB, please use 1xx bios like bios 1.9.

For the driver, please use the link below to download.
http://www.msi.com/index.php?func=do...=1&prod_no=505

Regards,
xxxxxxxx
Note that the link also has a good Memory and compatibility module explanation in it.

i.e. they say it is a KT4V-L MoBo, but to use the KT4V BIOS and Drivers - do nothing and wait please !!
They are mixing up the MS6714 with the MS6712 you have.

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Last edited by pcbugfixer; 7th January 2010 at 23:00. Reason: text correction
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Old 8th January 2010   #42
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G'Day Barry,

Good news! With the information and some logic, I have sorted this out and will make time for you to-day (my time AEDT (Australian Eastern Daylight Time) to give you the correct details, as soon as I have completed the upgrade on my System 4.

My current time is 09:34 hours (9:34am for civilians) Saturday 09/01/2010

Zulu Time = The zero meridian time is now 22:34:21 2010-01-08

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Last edited by pcbugfixer; 8th January 2010 at 21:42.
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Old 9th January 2010   #43
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G'Day Barry,

OK, here goes the final sortie and fixing tasks for your motherboard BIOS, and drivers and shedding better light on your memory modules.

The confirmation reply said:
Quote:
Dear Sir,
Sorry for the confusion, I mistype the model, MS6712 is the correct model.

Please note of the ff:
1.KT4V and KT4V-L shared the same driver, please check the available versions as shown in the picture below.
Note: The main difference for KT4V and KT4V-L is that KT4V-L is with onboard LAN driver.
The option “ L “ means LAN port is available.
2.KT4V-L is using 1xx bios version as this PCB1.0
Note: KT4V-L got 2 versions, PCB 1.0 and PCB1.1 and they are using different bios version.
KT4V / KT4V-L (v1.0)


If there are more things to clarify, please let me know.
Regards,
xxxxxxx
So what he is saying is that there where 2 types of KT4V-L boards. The one you have belongs to the 1st release of the KT4V / KY4V-L with the Rev: PCB 1.0
(This is the one you have i.e. KT4V-L Rev: PCB1.0) and the 2nd release of this MoBo KT4V-L Rev: PCB1.1 which you do not have.

So this is what we now need and the source of the information you would use, download and burn a CD of it for yourself.

1. Download the latest BIOS and drivers from this source http://www.msi.com/index.php?func=do...=1&prod_no=505 IMPORTANT that you download the correct drivers for XP usually marked " ... /XP 32 bit"

2. The BIOS you want and then make up the FDD from is this one,
Version 1.C Update Date 2004-11-01 = which is the 6712v1C.zip file.

3. Then there are the;

LAN - VIA 10/100 LAN Drivers = the "Windows 9X/Me/2000/XP 32bit " file Update Date 2008-06-13

Sound - Realtek ALC Series AC97 Audio Driver = the "Windows 2000/XP 32bit " file Update Date 2007-05-08

MoBo Drivers - VIA Chipset 4in1 Drivers = the "Windows 9X/Me/2000/XP 32bit " file Update Date 2007-04-20 This is very important and if at any time you re-install the XP OS, then this would be the 1st driver installation you would perform after installing the OS. The MoBo drivers are needed so that the MoBo can communicate the attached hardware types to the OS.

As for the USB "VIA USB2.0 Drivers" only needed for Win 98 / ME or the "VIA USB2.0 Patch (Under WinXP+SP1)" obviously you do not need these 2 drivers.

4. The Memory module information and compatible types, is also listed on the Main MoBo Page

The order of tasks I recommend is,

A. Put in the recommended 3 x 1GB memory modules (follow the advice from the MSI site. However I have previously suggested the 3 you should use) Main Memory DDR400.

B. Make up the FDD with the BIOS and run it - If you know how to get into the MoBo setup - Then do so and make notes of the current parameters and check them again after you have updated to the 1.C

C. If you do not have the latest VIA drivers for the MoBo installed i.e. the "•Driver version: 5.11a" then run / install them from the CD you made up or directly from a HDD folder and re-boot after you have done so.

D. Check your Sound driver installed version, and again run and install the newer ones if needed. "•Driver version for Win98/WinMe/Win2000/WinXP: 5.10.00.6230"

E. Check the LAN drivers and do the same, update if needed "•Driver Version: 3.68.0.453 (Win98SE/ME/2000/XP/Vista32/64)"

NB: In some instances when you do Windows update (preferably Microsoft Update) you may find still later (newer) drivers that have or will be installed for the LAN and Sound drivers, For VIA I do not suggest any other than the ones specified by MSI.

F. If you are not at XP SP3 level - install that now.

G. Perform a Microsoft Update (if not installed - install it - option provided at the top of the Windows Update page) and perform "Custom" updates only to ensure that all "High Priority" "Software" and "Hardware" drivers are included in the updating process.
Reboot - and continue to run the Update procedure until nothing remains to update from Microsoft.

H. Now clean up (delete) the temp rubbish (clear out the Recycle Bin) Optimize (defragment) your HDD - re-boot.

All done and you should have a faster Computer.

Yup, setting up a Computer only takes a few minutes

Addendum - Manual 1.6 English 7638KB E6712v1.6.zip - gives verification of 3 x 1GB capability.

pcbugfixer


Last edited by pcbugfixer; 9th January 2010 at 06:42. Reason: Addendum - Manual
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Old 9th January 2010   #44
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Thanks for all the information. I am presently visiting my mother's, as I took my son to the airport last night so he can fly back to his college campus in Florida. I'll be at my computer this evening and will check out everything you wrote.

For your information, I use PCMatic to keep my computer's drivers up-to-date and the computer clean. It does a great job, so I believe that all my drivers are current. I also have XP SP3 installed.

I do have some questions, though.

1) If the BIOS update has no changes other than allowing hardware that I don't use, is it worth it to update the BIOS?
2) Would I truly see much improvement by purchasing another GB of RAM to install? To be honest, I haven't noticed much improvement by installing 2GB or adding the additional 1/2GB. Would I be better off removing the 1/2GB and changing the Command Rate from T2 to T1, as previously addressed by Rockster2U?
3) I want to clarify that though the mobo states Ver. 10A, it actually is Ver. 1.0, and it is a KT4V-L. The picture in your link states VER: 1.0, not 10A.

I'll get back to you to verify the rest this evening. Thank you.


Last edited by Barry; 9th January 2010 at 14:39.
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Old 9th January 2010   #45
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Quote:
2) Would I truly see much improvement by purchasing another GB of RAM to install? To be honest, I haven't noticed much improvement by installing 2GB or adding the additional 1/2GB. Would I be better off removing the 1/2GB and changing the Command Rate from T2 to T1, as previously addressed by Rockster2U?
Couple of quick comments .......

First of all, I would only run the two new Kingston Value Ram modules - leave your old memory on the table. If you want to add a third Kingston Value Ram module, by all means have at it. Please understand that due to the limitations or lets say design of this board and the specific chipset, your memory is only going to run at 333MHz. This is not a big deal. Your board also will not run dual channel memory so there will be no speed loss encountered by going from two modules to three modules (as may occur on dual channel boards). Don't get hung up on the T1 vs T2 terminology - most of us will never notice a difference. Again, the thing you are striving for is no hiccups - stability. Just set your memory By Speed or Auto in the BIOS and don't worry about what any of the numbers mean. As Athlonite correctly pointed out, you will most likely wind up at 2.5-3-3-7 but again, don't worry about what these numbers are.

I hope Jr. wore some warm clothes - Sandals, jeans and a t-shirt aren't going to cut it this weekend.


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