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Old 20th August 2006   #1
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Question

Laptop cooling fan runs almost all the time


Hello everyone,

For the past week or so, the cooling fan in my wife's two and a half year old Toshiba M35-S320 laptop (XP Home, SP2, fully patched) runs for short bursts of about twenty seconds every two to three minutes when the machine is under normal load (internet activity, scanning for viruses, etc). The machine has to be on for about twenty minutes or so to heat up, and then the fans start running. When the laptop is idle, the fan barely runs at all. The air coming out of the vent is warmish, but not overly hot. The machine does not get overly hot to the touch. It performs normally; no unusual CPU spiking or memory usage in Task Manager. Other than the fan kicking in every couple of minutes, the machine performs as well as it did when it was new. It boots crisply and quickly (thanks to some tips from this group). I called Toshiba, and they told me that it is normal for the fan to turn on as frequently as it is now. I told the support agent that this is a new issue and that the fan never, ever ran this much up until a week or so ago, and I was basically blown off. Before last week, the fan would maybe run a half dozen times or less in a three hour session, so something is definitely wrong here.

I removed the bottom covers in search of dust, cat fur, etc., and came up completely empty. It's as clean as the day it came out of the factory. My wife uses a keyboard cover so no debris gets under the keys. I even vacuumed the already clean fan vent for good measure, but the fan still runs too often. I installed Everest and the temps read 18 degrees Celsius for the HDD, and after three and a half hours of running the CPU temp topped out at 51 C. Is this too hot for the CPU?

Thanks in advance.
Brad

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Old 21st August 2006   #2
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Check your background/startup programs. Do a search of the Hardware, Win XP and Security forums for "background". Turn off "autoupdaters",etc. in the main programs or using msconfig and just run them when you need them.

If you have Norton Internet Security or just Norton Antivirus, I find they run fine with a fresh system. After a while they virtually stall the system while they check everything. NIS and NAV are the major culprits, although other major security suites do it as well. It was the same problem on my friends laptop (fan running all the time, etc). I uninstalled NIS, disabled all unnecessary startup items and it was back to normal.

Check the CPU usage and available memory in Task Manager.

Do you run any programs that have system requirements at the high end of your system's hardware? The laptop has built-in graphics that share memory with the system memory. The specifications may say it has 512MB of system RAM, but 128Mb of that may be used to run the graphics.

Yes, 51*C is on the high side.

Matt

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Old 21st August 2006   #3
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Hi, thestadiumguy.

Quote:
the CPU temp topped out at 51 C. Is this too hot for the CPU?
I am inclined to say no, 51 C is not too hot.

According to Everest, my desktop machine's CPU is currently 49 C, only 2 C lower than your number.

According to Asus Probe v2, my current CPU temp is 57 C, which is 6 C higher than yours.

I don't know why my reported temps are so different from each other (Everest vs Asus). I haven't tried to dig up that sort of information yet.


At any rate, I wouldn't expect laptop CPU temps to be radically different from desktop CPU temps. And yours is certainly close, regardless of which temperature I provided for my machine.


BTW, My CPU temp might be somewhat higher than the typical CPU. I'm using a stock fan and heatsink. Years ago, during a motherboard switch, I had separated the heatsink from the CPU and reattached the heatsink without a fresh application of thermal conductive material. I just jeft the pink "patch" type material there that was shipped with the CPS/heatsink. (I switched the motherboard based on features rather than necessity.)

At any rate, my CPU Celsius temps have been in the high 50's to low 60's (according to Asus Probe) for years and it's still going strong for my purposes. (I'm not a gamer though.)

EDIT: mattman's suggestions above certainly carry more weight than mine. He's one of our resident hardware experts and he certainly has a lot more knowledge about hardware specs than me!


Last edited by mailman; 21st August 2006 at 06:43.
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Old 21st August 2006   #4
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I don't think 51C is particularly hot for a Mobile Pentium CPU. Max temp. for these is 100C, so you're just half way

*I found that the Toshiba M35-S320 has a Intel Pentium M 1.5 GHz/CPU.

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Old 21st August 2006   #5
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Thank you to all who responded to my issue. I appreciate the help.

Matt,
I uninstalled NAV 2005 last week and we are now using AVG Free for the laptop. As a matter of fact, that is one of the reasons why she boots so quickly now! And in Task Manager, there are (and have been) no unusual CPU spikes or RAM draws. She works very easily, in fact. And I will search the areas that you suggested, although the only difference in the machine now vs. last week is that it is running a much lighter virus program. Shouldn't the fan turn on less? If it's not getting that hot to begin with, why doed the fan run every two to three minutes when it never used to?

Mailman,
My desktop CPU generally runs way hotter than the laptop as well, with no ill effects. Then again, my fans run all the time by design.

Arie,
You are correct about the type of CPU that came with the laptop. That 100C number sounds incredibly high for a max temperature, but if you said it, I'll buy it.

My wife tells me that when she ran the machine on battery power for about 45 minutes to an hour today (as she has done every day since it was new), and the temp topped out at 41C, and the fan did not run once. I am told that this issue with the fans running only occurs when the unit is running on AC power (from the adapter). And don't forget, this issue with the fans is only about a week or so old.

Brad

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Old 22nd August 2006   #6
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From what I have read, the power will be run on a lower level using battery power to conserve the batteries.

See what you can find about other background programs. Some of the people here recommend Startup Control Panel. I have only read about it (I use the manual method ). It is a good program from what I have seen.

I recommend using two antispyware programs (Spybot and AdAware), one catching what the other misses. You only need to run them on a regular basis (or they start using system resources as well).

I have only concentrated on what could be using the CPU, it could be heat generated by say, the graphics or other chips/chipsets (the HDD temp looked OK). Different software will be using different hardware.

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Old 22nd August 2006   #7
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Hello Brad,

To lookup startups: this thread System suffering from lagging performance links to databases on processes and applications.

Regards - Charles

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Old 22nd August 2006   #8
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Hello again Matt,

I will start to investigate the background programs running in the machine, although I won't be able to do anything until the weekend. There were 59 running processes running originally, with no unusual fan activity. Now that I removed NAV and installed AVG Free, we are down to 53 processes, and now we have constant fan activity. We also use Spybot, SpywareBlaster, Ewido (running as a scanner only), ZoneAlarm firewall, and CWShredder. None of these programs run in the background. We scan clean as a whistle all the time. And again, Task Manager looks good. I don't get it.

Hello Charles,

My goodness ...those sites will take some time to comb through, but I'll look through them carefully and see what processes I can eliminate from the laptop. This may take a while......Thank you so much for the link.

I'll keep you posted. Thanks again to all.
Brad

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Old 22nd August 2006   #9
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Hi Brad,

Worth doing IMO, not only to improve performance, but also from a security standpoint.

Once you go thru what's running, you then can establish a baseline. Then if your Firewall or any other security app pops up with a Permission/Deny request, its easier to make decisions about the process - you'd know pretty much if it is new or something current that wants permission.

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Old 23rd August 2006   #10
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Originally Posted by thestadiumguy
Arie,
You are correct about the type of CPU that came with the laptop. That 100C number sounds incredibly high for a max temperature, but if you said it, I'll buy it.
Don't take my word for it... have a look at Intel's Intel® Pentium® M Processor Datasheet

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Old 27th August 2006   #11
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Hello all,

I thought it would make sense to submit a "HijackThis" log of the running processes in my wife's laptop before I go deleting something that it actually needs to work properly. So, without further adieu, I give you.....the log file.


Logfile of HijackThis v1.99.1
Scan saved at 12:32:58 PM, on 8/27/2006
Platform: Windows XP SP2 (WinNT 5.01.2600)
MSIE: Internet Explorer v6.00 SP2 (6.00.2900.2180)

Running processes:
C:\WINDOWS\System32\smss.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\winlogon.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\services.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\lsass.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\svchost.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\S24EvMon.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\ZCfgSvc.exe
C:\WINDOWS\Explorer.EXE
C:\WINDOWS\System32\1XConfig.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spoolsv.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVGFRE~1\avgamsvr.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVGFRE~1\avgupsvc.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVGFRE~1\avgemc.exe
C:\Program Files\TOSHIBA\ConfigFree\CFSvcs.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\DVDRAMSV.exe
C:\Program Files\ewido anti-spyware 4.0\guard.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\nvsvc32.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\RegSrvc.exe
c:\TOSHIBA\Ivp\Swupdate\swupdtmr.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\ZoneLabs\vsmon.exe
C:\WINDOWS\wanmpsvc.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\00THotkey.exe
C:\Program Files\SigmaTel\SigmaTel AC97 Audio Drivers\stacmon.exe
C:\Program Files\ltmoh\Ltmoh.exe
C:\WINDOWS\AGRSMMSG.exe
C:\Program Files\Synaptics\SynTP\SynTPLpr.exe
C:\Program Files\Synaptics\SynTP\SynTPEnh.exe
C:\Program Files\TOSHIBA\TouchED\TouchED.Exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\TFNF5.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\ezSP_Px.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\TPSMain.exe
C:\WINDOWS\Logi_MwX.Exe
C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.5.0_06\bin\jusched.exe
C:\Program Files\Zone Labs\ZoneAlarm\zlclient.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVGFRE~1\avgcc.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\ctfmon.exe
C:\Program Files\TOSHIBA\TOSCDSPD\toscdspd.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\RAMASST.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\TPSBattM.exe
C:\Program Files\Lavalys\EVEREST Home Edition\everest.bin
C:\Program Files\MSN\MSNCoreFiles\msn.exe
C:\Program Files\MSN\MSNIA\MSNIASVC.EXE
C:\Program Files\MSN Messenger\msnmsgr.exe
C:\Documents and Settings\Bunny\My Documents\hijackthis\HijackThis.exe

R1 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Search Bar = http://g.msn.com/0SEENUS/SAOS01
R1 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Default_Page_URL = http://www.toshiba.com
O2 - BHO: Adobe PDF Reader Link Helper - {06849E9F-C8D7-4D59-B87D-784B7D6BE0B3} - C:\Program Files\Adobe\Acrobat 7.0\ActiveX\AcroIEHelper.dll
O2 - BHO: (no name) - {53707962-6F74-2D53-2644-206D7942484F} - C:\PROGRA~1\SPYBOT~1\SDHelper.dll
O2 - BHO: SSVHelper Class - {761497BB-D6F0-462C-B6EB-D4DAF1D92D43} - C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.5.0_06\bin\ssv.dll
O2 - BHO: ST - {9394EDE7-C8B5-483E-8773-474BF36AF6E4} - C:\Program Files\MSN Apps\ST\01.03.0000.1005\en-xu\stmain.dll
O2 - BHO: MSNToolBandBHO - {BDBD1DAD-C946-4A17-ADC1-64B5B4FF55D0} - C:\Program Files\MSN Apps\MSN Toolbar\MSN Toolbar\01.02.5000.1021\en-us\msntb.dll
O3 - Toolbar: MSN - {BDAD1DAD-C946-4A17-ADC1-64B5B4FF55D0} - C:\Program Files\MSN Apps\MSN Toolbar\MSN Toolbar\01.02.5000.1021\en-us\msntb.dll
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [00THotkey] C:\WINDOWS\System32\00THotkey.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [000StTHK] 000StTHK.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [NvCplDaemon] RUNDLL32.EXE C:\WINDOWS\system32\NvCpl.dll,NvStartup
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [nwiz] nwiz.exe /installquiet
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [SigmaTel StacMon] C:\Program Files\SigmaTel\SigmaTel AC97 Audio Drivers\stacmon.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [LtMoh] C:\Program Files\ltmoh\Ltmoh.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [AGRSMMSG] AGRSMMSG.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [SynTPLpr] C:\Program Files\Synaptics\SynTP\SynTPLpr.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [SynTPEnh] C:\Program Files\Synaptics\SynTP\SynTPEnh.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [TouchED] C:\Program Files\TOSHIBA\TouchED\TouchED.Exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [TFNF5] TFNF5.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [ezShieldProtector for Px] C:\WINDOWS\System32\ezSP_Px.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [TPSMain] TPSMain.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Pinger] C:\TOSHIBA\IVP\ISM\pinger.exe /run
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [PRONoMgr.exe] c:\Program Files\Intel\PROSetWireless\NCS\PROSet\PRONoMgr.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [HPDJ Taskbar Utility] C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\drivers\w32x86\3\hpztsb05.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Logitech Utility] Logi_MwX.Exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [SunJavaUpdateSched] C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.5.0_06\bin\jusched.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Zone Labs Client] "C:\Program Files\Zone Labs\ZoneAlarm\zlclient.exe"
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [AVG7_CC] C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVGFRE~1\avgcc.exe /STARTUP
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [ctfmon.exe] C:\WINDOWS\system32\ctfmon.exe
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [TOSCDSPD] C:\Program Files\TOSHIBA\TOSCDSPD\toscdspd.exe
O4 - Global Startup: Adobe Reader Speed Launch.lnk = C:\Program Files\Adobe\Acrobat 7.0\Reader\reader_sl.exe
O4 - Global Startup: RAMASST.lnk = C:\WINDOWS\system32\RAMASST.exe
O8 - Extra context menu item: E&xport to Microsoft Excel - res://C:\PROGRA~1\MICROS~2\OFFICE11\EXCEL.EXE/3000
O9 - Extra button: (no name) - {08B0E5C0-4FCB-11CF-AAA5-00401C608501} - C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.5.0_06\bin\ssv.dll
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Sun Java Console - {08B0E5C0-4FCB-11CF-AAA5-00401C608501} - C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.5.0_06\bin\ssv.dll
O9 - Extra button: Research - {92780B25-18CC-41C8-B9BE-3C9C571A8263} - C:\PROGRA~1\MICROS~2\OFFICE11\REFIEBAR.DLL
O9 - Extra button: Real.com - {CD67F990-D8E9-11d2-98FE-00C0F0318AFE} - C:\WINDOWS\System32\Shdocvw.dll
O9 - Extra button: Messenger - {FB5F1910-F110-11d2-BB9E-00C04F795683} - C:\Program Files\Messenger\msmsgs.exe
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Windows Messenger - {FB5F1910-F110-11d2-BB9E-00C04F795683} - C:\Program Files\Messenger\msmsgs.exe
O14 - IERESET.INF: START_PAGE_URL=http://www.toshiba.com
O16 - DPF: {17492023-C23A-453E-A040-C7C580BBF700} (Windows Genuine Advantage Validation Tool) - http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=39204
O16 - DPF: {31E68DE2-5548-4B23-88F0-C51E6A0F695E} (Microsoft PID Sniffer) - https://support.microsoft.com/OAS/ActiveX/odc.cab
O16 - DPF: {3AF4DACE-36ED-42EF-9DFC-ADC34DA30CFF} (PatchInstaller.Installer) - file://D:\content\include\XPPatchInstaller.CAB
O16 - DPF: {6E32070A-766D-4EE6-879C-DC1FA91D2FC3} (MUWebControl Class) - http://update.microsoft.com/microsof...?1120399898546
O16 - DPF: {8B1BC605-C593-4865-8F5B-05517F0CD0BB} (MSSecurityAdvisorCD Class) - file://D:\Content\include\msSecUcd.cab
O17 - HKLM\System\CCS\Services\Tcpip\..\{C8E86795-25F6-472C-B11C-D1947C7DB484}: NameServer = 205.171.3.65 205.171.2.65
O20 - Winlogon Notify: Sebring - c:\WINDOWS\System32\LgNotify.dll
O20 - Winlogon Notify: WgaLogon - C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\WgaLogon.dll
O23 - Service: AVG7 Alert Manager Server (Avg7Alrt) - GRISOFT, s.r.o. - C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVGFRE~1\avgamsvr.exe
O23 - Service: AVG7 Update Service (Avg7UpdSvc) - GRISOFT, s.r.o. - C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVGFRE~1\avgupsvc.exe
O23 - Service: AVG E-mail Scanner (AVGEMS) - GRISOFT, s.r.o. - C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVGFRE~1\avgemc.exe
O23 - Service: ConfigFree Service (CFSvcs) - TOSHIBA CORPORATION - C:\Program Files\TOSHIBA\ConfigFree\CFSvcs.exe
O23 - Service: DVD-RAM_Service - Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd. - C:\WINDOWS\System32\DVDRAMSV.exe
O23 - Service: ewido anti-spyware 4.0 guard - Anti-Malware Development a.s. - C:\Program Files\ewido anti-spyware 4.0\guard.exe
O23 - Service: InstallDriver Table Manager (IDriverT) - Macrovision Corporation - C:\Program Files\Common Files\InstallShield\Driver\11\Intel 32\IDriverT.exe
O23 - Service: NVIDIA Driver Helper Service (NVSvc) - NVIDIA Corporation - C:\WINDOWS\system32\nvsvc32.exe
O23 - Service: RegSrvc - Intel Corporation - C:\WINDOWS\System32\RegSrvc.exe
O23 - Service: Spectrum24 Event Monitor (S24EventMonitor) - Intel Corporation - C:\WINDOWS\System32\S24EvMon.exe
O23 - Service: Swupdtmr - Unknown owner - c:\TOSHIBA\Ivp\Swupdate\swupdtmr.exe
O23 - Service: TrueVector Internet Monitor (vsmon) - Zone Labs, LLC - C:\WINDOWS\system32\ZoneLabs\vsmon.exe
O23 - Service: WAN Miniport (ATW) Service (WANMiniportService) - America Online, Inc. - C:\WINDOWS\wanmpsvc.exe

I'm thinking that maybe the last entry can come out, as we don't use AOL, but I don't want to remove anything without the OK from the experts. Otherwise, as I said previously, no "stupidware" has turned up in any of our scans.

Hope this helps.

Thanks again,
Brad

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Old 27th August 2006   #12
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Brad

I see no baddies in your HJT log - as you inferred

You can fix this entry if you wish ....

O23 - Service: WAN Miniport (ATW) Service (WANMiniportService) - America Online, Inc. - C:\WINDOWS\wanmpsvc.exe

Note that this will disable the service - I would not go any further than this. Disabled it does no harm
Quote:
When you fix a O23 entry Hijackthis will change the startup for this service to disabled, stop the service, and then ask the user to reboot. It will not delete the actual service from the registry or the file it points to. In order to delete the service you will need to know the service name. This name is the text between the parenthesis. If the display name is the same as the service name, then it will not list the service name.

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Old 28th August 2006   #13
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Investigate the programs (.exe) that are listed under the 04 heading. I did a Google search and a lot are Toshiba utilities. You can do a Google search yourself and find out what they do. If you do a search of the C: drive and locate the file, right-click on it and select Properties. You should find the maker and a one or two word description of what it does. If there is no information about the file, it is probably something you don't want running all the time anyway.

Check through Add/Remove Programs. Uninstall any programs you are not using. Even if you decide to use them again, you should have the original setup files around to reinstall it. A lot of programs need uninstalling to update to a newer version as well.

How does the laptop connect to the internet? I see you have a wireless network program. If it connects through another computer or a router it should not need a firewall. The firewall should only be run on the machine with the direct connection. I doubt it would be possible, but ZoneAlarm isn't running with the built-in Windows firewall enabled?

You can stop MS Messenger running at startup (Tools -> Options -> General, uncheck "Run Messenger when I log onto Windows" and just run it from a desktop icon or the All Programs list.

You should be able to stop Adobe Reader and Java updater from running at startup. Look in the options for Adobe in All Programs, Java will have an icon in Control Panel.

After that I prefer to use msconfig to stop programs running rather than Hijack This, because in msconfig you can recheck the box if you want them back. I use Hijack This for those I want to completely eliminate (although Hijack This makes a backup). Others here have suggested the programs Startup Monitor and Startup Cop.

Have you uninstalled all Norton programs? I see nwiz.exe is still there and although my system does not have them, I have a suspicion those programs starting with "Nv..." are Norton as well. Try stopping them with msconfig.

See if you can reduce Toshiba programs running if they don't have a direct effect on what you are doing. Are the Hot Keys important? Does the Touchpad program actually run the touchpad or is it a "helper" or updater.
Try to stop updaters if you can. they may be continually trying to access their home website and Zonealarm is blocking them...result, high CPU usage.

Let me/us know if you want more specific details. It may be one program that is the cause, once you find it the system may settle down completely.

Matt

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Old 28th August 2006   #14
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Hi, Matt.

Originally Posted by mattman
Have you uninstalled all Norton programs? I see nwiz.exe is still there and although my system does not have them, I have a suspicion those programs starting with "Nv..." are Norton as well.
Those are nVidia graphics card-related files.

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Old 28th August 2006   #15
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Thumbs up

Thanks mailman! ATI card in this computer.
(Although I know I've seen them before )

Matt

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